1.2 tsi 86 fuel economy / oil use

[pipsyp]

You'll tend to find that the 1.2 TSi will produce pretty poor MPG and may well use a bit of oil until its got a few miles under its belt. The TSi's tend to deliver reasonable fuel economy when driven gently (my wife regularly gets 40+ out of our vRS estate that now done about 2K) but the minute you tap into the power it drops significantly.

I think its very much the case that the TSi makes more sense if you're not doing heavy mileage or arent particularly bothered about fuel economy; if MPG is really important to you a TDi would be the one to get albeit they are less fun to drive. For me the move from PD to CR tech has really spoiled the TDi engine; whilst they are now fantastically refined for a diesel their power delivery is very bland (way too linear and still tails off after 4k) and they have a tragic lack of low down grunt. PD's were more agricultural but had way more character.

For the sake of the extra cost I would avoid the lower powered TSI and get the 105ps model, performance is stronger and economy/CO2 emissions are barely any different.

[jaxx007]

My order is already placed so I will be driving the tsi 85. I drove the tdi 90 and hoped for the pd boot up the backside but it wasn't there... And it is still soooo much noisier than the tsi. I expected the cr engine to be quieter than it was. Tsi was silent and a welcome change for my ears after a pd 80. Still can't square the 1400 quid difference between tsi 85 and tdi 90. A lot of money to recoup just on fuel (cos camchain cancels out the extra car tax cost) and my insurance quotes were a good 70 quid a year less for the tsi too.

[paully]

Sorry but trying to compare MPG between diesels, small and large and the Tsi petrols really is comparing apples and pears. I think you have to look at the figures in complete isolation, and also bear in mind that diesel in the UK attracts a higher price I have the 105 and after a hesitant start I`m more than happy with the fuel state. I live in a very hilly area and do a lot of short journeys, with the odd long haul thrown it, at which point I keep it below 70 and accept that the journey will be a bit longer, but less stress and the upside of that is about 50mpg...Suits me :rofl:

[jaxx007]

The thread wasn't really to compare petrol vs diesel as my order has already been placed. I was just looking for the experiences of current tsi owners so I know what to expect. I'm sure the diesel would achieve about 10 mpg more but I can accept the lower fuel economy figures due to the huge difference in list price. I am hoping that once run in the tsi will return appox 50 mpg but welcome any owners te comment on their mpg findings. :-)

[Mike Wrightson]

Well, after 8800 miles, it's getting easier to achieve 45mpg+ all the time, but I do have this pic as proof (note the mileage). This trip was cruising at speed limits and overtaking a couple of dawdlers. It can do it if you want to I could probably get it higher if I was really determined (had the air-con running on this trip) and went 5 - 10mph slower, but I'm happy with the economy as it is TBH.

[lol-lol]

I am suprised the red line is only 7K as that is the same on my 1.8 TSI which has 10% longer stroke so I was hoping for 7500 at least.

My bike has a 63 mm stroke ie 20% shorter but revs to 11K.

Presumably, like the EA888 1.8 TSI one should not cruise in the partial shaded red line ie between 6 and 7 K rpm.

Presumably sixth in the manual and 7th in the DSG is so tall that you would never get there, even on an Autobann.

I think you would be doing about 170 mph in the 1.8 TSI DSG which even if re-mapped you would not get close to, more like 155-160 I guess.

Anyways I am certainly persuaded the 86 hp TSI is fine for every day driving. But with insurance what it is for youngsters I feel the feeble HTP engine is what they will have to settle for!

Edited 6 September, 2011 by lol

[jaxx007]

Thank you for the photo Mike. My wife is fretting about how much more a month we will be spending on fuel but hopefully she will rest easier after seeing your evidence. Can't wait now, should be about 2 weeks I hope...

[Mike Wrightson]

I am suprised the red line is only 7K as that is the same on my 1.8 TSI which has 10% longer stroke so I was hoping for 7500 at least.

My bike has a 63 mm stroke ie 20% shorter but revs to 11K.

Presumably, like the EA888 1.8 TSI one should not cruise in the partial shaded red line ie between 6 and 7 K rpm.

Presumably sixth in the manual and 7th in the DSG is so tall that you would never get there, even on an Autobann.

I think you would be doing about 170 mph in the 1.8 TSI DSG which even if re-mapped you would not get close to, more like 155-160 I guess.

Anyways I am certainly persuaded the 86 hp TSI is fine for every day driving. But with insurance what it is for youngsters I feel the feeble HTP engine is what they will have to settle for!

Red line is 6k The 1.2 is an 8v engine, and there's not much point going beyond 5000, as the power tails off from there. We only get 5 speed boxes in the Fabia (plus the 7 speed DSG), but it certainly doesn't struggle with only 5 gears. I usually live in the space between 1500rpm and 3000rpm, that's where it does its best work

I think the HTP will soon be replaced by the 1.0 TSI which will be in the Up! based city car. Which will be nice

[Mike Wrightson]

Thank you for the photo Mike. My wife is fretting about how much more a month we will be spending on fuel but hopefully she will rest easier after seeing your evidence. Can't wait now, should be about 2 weeks I hope...

If you've only done 21000 miles in 3 years, it's not a massive cost anyway. All I will say is that the TSI will be economical if you want it to be. It's not hard, it has such good torque low down that it encourages you to shift up early. Do that and avoid lots of full throttle and you should be looking at 44mpg + without any bother, and you will still cover ground pretty quickly. Looking at the economy you got from your diesel, you don't seem to be in a particularly hilly area, so you should do well

[jaxx007]

WE do live in a relatively flat town and my commute is only 9 miles each way. I initially chose the tdi 80 cos the alternative was the htp 70... And though the petrol would have been cheaper to run, I wanted something that would shift as required (the diesel certainly does that). Now the petrol choice looks much more positive than the diesel on a cost front so it makes sense for usto go for the tsi over the tdi. Trouble is I easily achieve 60+ mpg but the wife drives differently and only manages low 50's. She's more of a boy racer than me lol. I just like the occasional boot every now and then to put a smile on my face.

[gasbag]

Good luck on your move from a diesel to the petrol tsi. If it's anything like mine you will be lucky to get 40mpg in real life driving, now I have the 105 tsi but I don't think the mpg figures are any different in the book. Coming from a Octavia vrs 170 crtdi that always did 45mpg and 55mpg on a long run I've been very shock at the mpg of the tsi engine, it's not much better than my first vrs petrol that has 200 bhp and a lot heavier body. You might not have the same problems as me though as I'm sure an engine with only 105 bhp has to have something wrong with it to be this bad.

I am getting 41 overall since new. 3500 on the clock and no oil top up yet

[seboni121]

I am getting 41 overall since new. 3500 on the clock and no oil top up yet

ive got both the 1.4tdi and the 1.6crtdi 105bhp, i get between 60-70mpg out of the 1.4tdi and 65 mpg on the other but only 3k on the clock, yes the 1.4 tdi is gruff but its a cracking car loads of low down torque were as the 1.2 would struggle

[RapidRonnie]

I think the HTP will soon be replaced by the 1.0 TSI which will be in the Up! based city car. Which will be nice

The 1.0 litre in the Up! isn't a turbo despite earlier reports. However I think it will replace the HTP as it has similar power outputs.

[Mike Wrightson]

yes the 1.4 tdi is gruff but its a cracking car loads of low down torque were as the 1.2 would struggle

No, the 1.2 does not struggle. Every 1.6 TDI that I've driven so far, I have needed to keep the revs higher than I do with the 1.2. If the 1.6 is under 2000rpm, it just will not go at all. I actually found the 1.6 quite hard to drive because of that. It's bizarre, the TSI is a petrol that drives like a traditional diesel and the 1.6TDI is a diesel that has to be driven like a NA petrol. :S

The 1.0 litre in the Up! isn't a turbo despite earlier reports. However I think it will replace the HTP as it has similar power outputs.

Oh dear. It's going to be desperately slow in a Fabia if that's the case :( I thought VAG were determined to move completely to turbo engines?

[Black]

Seboni - I must have had a bad 1.4tdi then. it does have torque but catch it before the turbo spools up and it is dead. The 1.2 tsi even in the lower tune is such a better drive than the 1.4 tdi. The range of power delivery is wider and others have said the low down torque is not that bad. Also the gearing is longer.

In my TDI I could drive foot to the floor and it would run out of power at 90. The petrol does not it just keeps pulling. Don't let the 1.2 capacity fool you.

As I said earlier my low powered estate is working fine as our main car. The car it replaced in that duty was a 2.0 tdi B6 Passat Estate which I do not miss at all even after long motorway journeys in the Fabia.

Oh and to answer your question hardly any oil consumption up to 10k miles. I put in 250ml but I probably didn't need to.

Edited 7 September, 2011 by Black

[jaxx007]

Thank you for that black. The wife still doesn't believe a 1.2 is enough for our estate as it is used as our family car. She has a ridiculously slow 60

hp 1.3 fiesta and I guess she thinks 1.2 is less than her 1.3. I have explained about more power and lots more torque than her car but she doesn't believe me. She'll come around though once she drives it... Hopefully :-)

Edited 8 September, 2011 by jaxx007

[pipsyp]

No disrespect but the 1.4 TDi PD cannot in any way be compared to the 1.2 TSi; in all regards the TSi is the better motor. It may not be as efficient but power delivery and response is in a different league; also thanks to clever turbocharging the last thing the 1.2 TSi is lacking is torque. It 105ps model puts out the same amount of torque as a 140ps 1.8 VVT Vauxhall!

Have to say I had a previous gen VW Polo Match 1.4 TDi 70 as a courtesy car for the day and other than the initial amusement at the off-beat 3 cylinder noise it made it made no impression on me at all and was truely awful. Noisy, slow, frustrating....we'd actually thought about getting a 1.4 TDi Polo a few years ago and so glad we ended up getting the 1.4 petrol.

[Minimoke]

Not many have commented on the oil use.

My wife's 86 1.2 TSI was looked at several times by the dealer during the first year of its life due to unacceptable oil consumption. I have complained about this several times in the past on this forum.

However following its first annual service (fixed service intervals) the oil consumption appears to have improved very significantly, so good news. I'm closely monitoring it and am keeping my fingers crossed.

This excessive consumption has been attributed to the oil put into it at the factory. Having said that I topped up the car so often during the initial 12 months there could not have been much of the original left!

My wife has been very happy with the 86 - apart from the oil issue which seems to have become my responsibility somehow! I have driven it a couple of times and it seems a very peppy engine to me. Its ideal for her sort of motoring which is mainly around town but I don't think it need hang its head in shame on a motorway trip.

I don't think that a 86 is a significantly poorer relation of the 105.

Can't comment on the petrol consumption - the oil conumption has been the major issue for us.

[Black]

Jaxx07 no problem. I still cant believe it is a 1.2 engine. Amazing how hard preconceptions are to change.

Let us know what you think when you get it.

[BossFox]

Not many have commented on the oil use.

I've just put a litre of oil in our 1.2 Yeti (105bhp) after 4600 miles and one year.

Bigger heavier car with more wind ressistance. 42mpg average since new.

[jaxx007]

42 mpg in the yeti is very good. I hope your oil use reduces though. Dealer said I should have the car in approx ten days. Can't wait now lol.

[just music]

I'm curious what other drivers think of the 86TSi in terms of turbo lag. I find it pretty unresponsive for just a second or two then it takes off. Isn't the supercharger supposed to mitigate this?

Economy-wise, I've now done just over 2000 miles with a variety of journeys. I've not done any long term analysis - only the trip mileage on the computer. When the car was brand new I got 50 on a careful motorway run at 70. On a long, largely motorway run complete with kids, luggage, roofbox and a fair bit of A/C I think we got early-mid 40s. I recently got 45 on a spirited 25 mile sub-urban trip sticking to the 30 or 40 limits. This also included a brief (just over a mile) uphill thrash on a short stretch of dual 70mph (between the White Rose Centre and J28 M62 if anyone knows the area).

I have found that it may sometimes be better to not change up too early when accelerating reasonably gently.

It doesn't like short stop-start journeys though - which make up a fair bit of our time. I think we look at mid 30s for those (albeit with my wife driving who has a heavier right foot than me).

Haven't checked the oil recently. Our drive and road are on a slope so it's not possible to check at home. Must remember next time the car's parked on the level for a while...

[BossFox]

I'm curious what other drivers think of the 86TSi in terms of turbo lag. I find it pretty unresponsive for just a second or two then it takes off. Isn't the supercharger supposed to mitigate this?

The 1.2 doesn't have a supercharger. I think you are confusing it with the 1.4 twincharged engine in the VRS.

[just music]

The 1.2 doesn't have a supercharger.

I didn't realise that! I assumed TSI stood for Turbocharged, Supercharged, Injection and that all TSI engines were built on the same principal, but in different sizes.

Ah well...

[BossFox]

I didn't realise that! I assumed TSI stood for Turbocharged, Supercharged, Injection and that all TSI engines were built on the same principal, but in different sizes.

Ah well...

It stands for Turbocharged Stratified Injection I believe.