Just a quick picture of my inexpensive option. Seat Altea 16" alloys and Continental TS 830s. Second hand from loadsawine (thank you again) 6j and 205/55 so not ideal size but they are in excellent condition and all for not much money.

The Seat logo on the wheel centres was a stick on which came off and after a good clean was replaced with stickers from fleabay.

I think 16s look a bit odd but since I am inside looking out I'll live with the loss of the Yeti stance until spring.

If I find them as useful as I think I may go for set which I think suit the car better and sell these-but will only buy when they are easily found next summer.

They look pretty good IMHO.

The brightness of the alloy wheel disuses the smallness of the 205/55s. They certainly look loads(awine) better than 16" steelies with these tyres.

All you should do IMHO is get 205/60s when required in a year or so.

I'm liking these a lot they really suit the car.

having been through a phase of driving class 1's you come to realise that if the car/truck is going to slip, get stuck or skid its more than likely going to catch you unaware and happen regardless of the tyre's fitted.

It may be me but I think its false economy.

Don't agree with any of that I'm afraid

Having previously been involved in rallying (driving and co-driving) and I do over 100K pa (mainly in a truck) it is ALL about the tyres, after all they are the only thing keeping you in contact with terra firma.

(OK I admit that is a slight exaggeration as driving skill comes into is as well, but my point stands about the tyres can make one hell of a difference)

Thanks guys!

Don't agree with any of that I'm afraid

Having previously been involved in rallying (driving and co-driving) and I do over 100K pa (mainly in a truck) it is ALL about the tyres, after all they are the only thing keeping you in contact with terra firma.

(OK I admit that is a slight exaggeration as driving skill comes into is as well, but my point stands about the tyres can make one hell of a difference)

I appreciate what you are saying entirely and agree. I too am professional HGV driver and I would be rubbish at my job if I couldnt handle the truck in any weather.

What I think I was trying to say is that a good tyre with plenty of tread will offer ample grip and performance for your average driver in the snow, as lets face it if the conditions are that servere they really unless completely neccessary driving should be avoided.

I think many believe the winter tyres will offer far more than they actually do, a false sense of security perhaps. They are no substitute for a 4x4 thats for sure.

Although I am an experienced driver-full licence 40+ years and have driven quite a number of different cars I claim no unusual skill or talent.

I agree a competent driver with decent tyres should cope with any conditions in which it is sensible to try to drive.

I agree that overconfidence is a great danger.

I cannot understand the notion that if better tyres are available it is in any way " a false economy" to use them.

Neither 4x4 drive nor winter tyres exempt you from the laws of physics.

Both give a greater margin of grip and traction. Last year I found myself at or near the limit of my car's capacity -I got through OK with care and anticipation. Allowing long stopping distances and avoiding hill starts by hanging back until I could go up with some momentum as examples.

Why would I not want better equipment?

I've got two reasons for switching.

(a I drive out to the Alps a couple of times each winter. There's some debate about whether winter tyres are legally required in France, but I may stray over to Switzerland so ... And if they make me a little safer (and perhaps obviate the need for chains) so much the better.

(b I live on a steep unmade farm track, about a mile (and 700 feet vertical) from the main road. Past two winters I've had to park on the main road and walk to and from my house every day for about two weeks. OK, I'm a bit lardy and could do with the exercise, but lugging tins of dogfood, and essential supplies like wine, up the hill is a killer. Hoping this year to be able to drive it ... I'll let you know.

They are no substitute for a 4x4 thats for sure.

Why, can a 4x4 stop quicker on ice or snow than a car fitted with winter tyres? :think:

It's not about how fast you can go, but more about how fast you can stop! The biggest problem with winter tyres (providing you are driving sensibly) is the car behind you stopping in time

2 years ago I managed to get up a long steep hill in my MKI Super fitted with std Dunlop tyres on (it was a close call but reading the road ahead meant I didn't need to stop so just about maintained momentum) but parked up on the side of the road was a good 50+ cars c/w several 4x4's.

This year I did the same hill with the same amount of snow and stuck cars but with Nokian winter tyres on, the difference was I could actually accelerate up the hill rather than just maintaining momentum.

So although winter tyres are not needed to keep going, why take any more risks than you need to? my 205/55/16 winter tyres will actually save me money as they are cheaper to replace than my 225/40/18's and in the 4,500 miles they have so far done they have worn less than 1mm

The truck I was driving yesterday had Hankook tyres fitted to the drive axle, these were fairly new (less than 6 months old) yet with an empty tautliner on I was still getting wheelspin on damp roads in 7th gear with very light throttle use. In the dry they were fine, but cold (about 10º) damp contitions they were lethal.

I think many believe the winter tyres will offer far more than they actually do, a false sense of security perhaps. They are no substitute for a 4x4 thats for sure.

Cat amongst the pigeons I think :wonder: I believe the majority of us with 4x4 will argue that getting going in winter conditions is easier than 2wd but 4x4 will not help stop or steer. That's where winter tyres are immeasurably better than 'summers' and where you really need the grip. I also disagree with your tread comment; yes greater tread depth will help deal with the extreme wet conditions over winter but it's the rubber compound staying supple that offers the grip in icy or snowny conditions not the depth of tread. As for many believing that winters offer far more than they do - plenty of individuals and automotive magazines etc undertaking winter tyre tests will disagree vehemently. A quick search on YouTube will prove the point.

If as an individual you do not feel the need to wear winters that's fine, its a free country, but I really do not see that your arguments hold water...or ice...or snow...

I think many believe the winter tyres will offer far more than they actually do, a false sense of security perhaps. They are no substitute for a 4x4 thats for sure.

So a 4x4 on normal tyres are better than my Fabia on "winters" eh??? :wonder: .......I wish you could have been with me in my car the last two winters when I was overtaking (at 45mph in a 60mph zone!!) the 4x4 drivers (nice big disco's, Range Rovers, X5'5 etc on the roads to Cairngorm ski area) on "normal" tyres who where having major trouble trying to go in a straight line as their traction control systems where trying to find grip!

Was also in my mates big Nissan on normal tyres who said the same as you....nearly lost it on a corner as the diffs where playing catch up.....should have seen the look on his face .....I then took him down in my car the same road, same conditions....much faster and and more secure!!!

My winters when they do "let go" cause the car to smoothly drift sideways as a whole (not a sudden rear or front snap).....which then means you can use the throttle to adjust and corrective steer....... skill plays a huge part.....and no matter how good you are you still "can'ne change the laws of physics".......

Autoexpress completed a test recently, where they tested many aspects. The biggest surprise for me was the improvement in braking in the snow.

Should be able to read a summry of the magazine report here :

linky

and this from VW / Tyresafe

linky 2

Edited 19 October, 201114 yr by Silly Old Hector

Oh god, I do appologise I seemed to have sparked a row.

Sorry folks was just giving my two pence worth.

I will however standby the view that driver skill and anticipation are the two most important factors when driving in adverse conditions.

I will however standby the view that driver skill and anticipation are the two most important factors when driving in adverse conditions.

Pretty much rubbish. Have you never watched a grand prix when there's a sudden downpour and they're all on slick tyres? Here are some of the most skilful drivers in the world, sliding around all over the place. The right tyres for the right conditions make all the difference.

I will however standby the view that driver skill and anticipation are the two most important factors when driving in adverse conditions.

BOBDOG...

Quote

Pretty much rubbish. Have you never watched a grand prix when there's a sudden downpour and they're all on slick tyres? Here are some of the most skilful drivers in the world, sliding around all over the place. The right tyres for the right conditions make all the difference.

End Quote

Driver skill and anticipation are important factors when driving in adverse conditions.......but lack of grip is even more important......imagine driving through heavy rain on just legal tyres!...doesn't matter how good or bad a driver you are the correct tyres for the job will make the job easier.

I'm sure that the F1 drivers are way better than all of us on those cars/etc...and yes they still spin.......but most of us would spin just looking at the car let alone trying to drive it in the wet!!!

Skill can make up for lack of adequate equipment (as in most things in life.. )...too an extent...but beyond that it is down to equipment!

Edited 19 October, 201114 yr by fabdavrav

VRSets,

as a 4x4 instructor one of the first thing we tell "pupils" is that having a 4x4 for snowy conditions is not going to be the wonderful cure-all they thought it was. Yes, it "might" get you up that hill a bit safer and more quickly, BUT going down hill or once you started sliding it doesn't matter how many wheels should be driving, gravity is by far the greatest power!

Whilst I will partly agree that tyres with a good tread will help you get around in snow, once they are full of snow it won't make any difference, and that is where proper winter/snow tyres make things better; because there are all the multiple snipes that increase the "biting" area of the tyre plus they are invariably self-cleaning, so the treads don't get filled up.

Also you have fallen into the trap of thinking they are only for snow use, which as has been said many times, is not correct. The rubber make up of "summer" tyres hardens as temperatures reduce, givinng less grip and poorer water dispersal abilities, whereas the make-up of winter tyres isn't affected by this.

I went through the whole of last winter on the tyres my Yeti came with and had no problems getting to work every day; a journey of 48 miles across Wales normally before 5 in the morning,on roads that hadn't been ploughed or gritted, however this year I am considering going down the All Seasons route.

A friend of mine cam e round the other day in her new BMW X5 with 20" wheels, can't remember the profile but they were 235mm wide. They looked ridiculous and I had to check that the badge on the front said BMW and not Bomag. It will be interesting to see how she gets on if and when we get some snow.

A friend of mine cam e round the other day in her new BMW X5 with 20" wheels, can't remember the profile but they were 235mm wide. They looked ridiculous and I had to check that the badge on the front said BMW and not Bomag. It will be interesting to see how she gets on if and when we get some snow.

She won't lol

I watched a Porsche Cayanne(whatever) going backwards down a not that steep hill last year, best part was he stopped at the bottom and revved it so the whole field of sledgers etc looked round then he epically failed to impress, Then a neighbour tooted her horn at him to move and flew up the hill in a corsa.

I just ordered four winters for the Octy........Just in case like, probably won't snow now

She won't lol

I watched a Porsche Cayanne(whatever) going backwards down a not that steep hill last year, best part was he stopped at the bottom and revved it so the whole field of sledgers etc looked round then he epically failed to impress, Then a neighbour tooted her horn at him to move and flew up the hill in a corsa.

I just ordered four winters for the Octy........Just in case like, probably won't snow now

You don't get snow in Cardiff, you'll have to take a trip to Caerfilthy or up the valleys to try them out.

VRSets,

as a 4x4 instructor one of the first thing we tell "pupils" is that having a 4x4 for snowy conditions is not going to be the wonderful cure-all they thought it was. Yes, it "might" get you up that hill a bit safer and more quickly, BUT going down hill or once you started sliding it doesn't matter how many wheels should be driving, gravity is by far the greatest power!

Whilst I will partly agree that tyres with a good tread will help you get around in snow, once they are full of snow it won't make any difference, and that is where proper winter/snow tyres make things better; because there are all the multiple snipes that increase the "biting" area of the tyre plus they are invariably self-cleaning, so the treads don't get filled up.

Also you have fallen into the trap of thinking they are only for snow use, which as has been said many times, is not correct. The rubber make up of "summer" tyres hardens as temperatures reduce, givinng less grip and poorer water dispersal abilities, whereas the make-up of winter tyres isn't affected by this.

I went through the whole of last winter on the tyres my Yeti came with and had no problems getting to work every day; a journey of 48 miles across Wales normally before 5 in the morning,on roads that hadn't been ploughed or gritted, however this year I am considering going down the All Seasons route.

Appreciate the in-depth write up. Thanks.

I believe maybe yes I have fallen into the 4x4 security hole. I suppose really there are so many factors that really anyone could be overlooked.

Im told there is an comprehensive review of winter tyres vs summer/all-weather in this months Evo magazine and infact some of the results are shocking. Definately something ill be picking up at my local newsagents.

A friend of mine cam e round the other day in her new BMW X5 with 20" wheels, can't remember the profile but they were 235mm wide. They looked ridiculous and I had to check that the badge on the front said BMW and not Bomag. It will be interesting to see how she gets on if and when we get some snow.

235s seem a mite narrow for the X5 on 20" wheels as the tyres on an X6 are 315/35 20 rear & 275/40 20 front

You don't get snow in Cardiff, you'll have to take a trip to Caerfilthy or up the valleys to try them out.

A lot of my work as past Pontypridd so they should have their uses, Last year I got stuck and had dig myself in Llanedryn, Hardly out in the wilds, but the bathplug wouldn't budge lol

That's a fair point - not exactly the right time, but I think in Germany it was announced 3-4 years ahead to allow the stocks of winter tyres in the dealers (and the choice and prices) to reach acceptable levels - unlike the recent disastrous introduction of E10 bio-fuel. Although much of Germany is flat and no colder than the UK, going to the Alps without winter tyres was never an option (and no longer legal for all those Brits heading for Chamonix). Many had winter tyres on the family car and just summer tyres on the 2nd car (local runabout). The change was not really as dramatic as it would be in the UK where presumably a tiny proportion of drivers routinely now use winter tyres.

A decision by the HM Gov to make them obligatory from 2015 would show foresight and planning, but then again the UK government is not exactly known for it's long term perspective? Like most things (e.g. high speed trains) the costs initially outweigh the benefits - but now Germany has almost no need of internal flights (or new runways for its airports) as every major city is connected with 150-250 kmh ICE trains. And as the ICE is cheaper than real cost of driving it frees up a lot of Autobahn for those who have no choice but to drive.

The discussion has moved on but both you and Bobdog made this point and I was away from a computer yesterday afternoon and only picked it up now. Utterly sensible comments, obvious really but I did not see it. You are quite right that a fazing in of this would prepare people and would enable everything to be set up in advance. I doff my cap to your good sense.

Everyone else can now get back to the annual "are they necessary or not" argument.

235s seem a mite narrow for the X5 on 20" wheels as the tyres on an X6 are 315/35 20 rear & 275/40 20 front

Oops that was a typo, I think they were 325.

A lot of my work as past Pontypridd so they should have their uses, Last year I got stuck and had dig myself in Llanedryn, Hardly out in the wilds, but the bathplug wouldn't budge lol

I don't think we had any proper snow when I lived in Cardiff, but I did quite a bit of work up around Ebbw Vale and Brynmawr and it always used to amuse me how different the weather could be up there compared to Cardiff. I remember going over the hill to Caerphilly one day I was almost sledging down the hill in the car.

Oh god, I do appologise I seemed to have sparked a row.

Sorry folks was just giving my two pence worth.

I will however standby the view that driver skill and anticipation are the two most important factors when driving in adverse conditions.

I agree that driver skill is of equal importance to the tyres. An example was a friend who I recommend to fit winter tyres on his people carrier as he was getting stuck in his driveway - once he had them one he stared driving around like normal with no regard for the conditions becuase of having more grip - not perhaps the safest thing to do.

When I was learning to drive I was fourtunate to have an ex-rally driver as my instructor who insisted that I learn to drive on snow and ice and we spent many hours doing country driving and using a skid pan in the snow. Since then I have always done as much winter driving as possible to get more experiance and it is now my favourite driving conditions. Winter tyres are amazing when used correctly and with the right experience.

Last winter I crossed the Scottish highlands every weekend over the hill and often had to drive on solid snow. On clear roads 50+mph is quite normal. Around town I went past many 4x4 who were stuck on icy hills and never got stuck once in the whole winter in my 2wd drive volvo estate.

For me, the best thing about winter tyres is being able to control direction and stop quickly. My mum didn't belive me that we could stop quickly in snow until I proved it and threw everyone into the seatbelts.

Got my set of Goodyear Ultragrip8 ready to go on the Fabia.