ok, so there has been alot of threads about DGS, and "mine does this" and "mine doesn't" ect...

I have decided (through critical experimentation/observation) that DSG will respond very differently, to different drivers, more so than you might think. when some people complain about it doing something they dont like, then others (including me) have said, nonesense, it doesn't do that... well I dont believe you can compaire like for like...

I will give you an example.... I read on a different section (octy or yeti, cant remember) about someone complaining that in drive the DSG selects too high a gear for the connditions, and the engine "struggles" ..... I have never experianced this for example.. so you may be tempted to say, "well you're wrong, or something must be wrong with your car.." ect..

however , I have recently started a new pupil, and for some reason, she can do this (I cant ) as you are slowing to approx 35 mph and the DSG is sitting in 7th, if she then accelerates, it wont change down, and just struggles along in 7th sounding to all intents anp purposes as if its in WAY too high a gear, and cant cope... so why doesnt it change down? is it broken? (Of course its not broken) none of my other pupils who have driven my car can do what this pupil can... the DSG in my car is reacting to her inputs in a completely differnt way to me and everyone else who has driven it.... as soon as I try , I cant replicate what happens (accelerating from 30ish in 7th in drive!)

theor: the box is very sensetive, and is making decisions on many numererous perameters in inputs from the driver... this particular pupil, always ends up in this situation (me thinking , why doesnt the box change down?) I beleive , she can operate the throttle at much smaller increments than any other driver of my car has done before.... for example, she can accelerate from 30 by moving the throttle half a milimeter and therefore it doesn't change up... I can only manage 1 mil, and thast enough to initiate a change down.....

these are my thoughts. its not just the situation above, its many other situations , thats just one example.

the lesson is DSG will react very very differently to different drivers! to compare like for like, without a detailed examination of how you drive is a little pointless!! I can cure the above fault, by simply coaching her to press the gas a very tiny ammount harder (and she can) , so by conclusion, as I'm happy (mostly) with the way my DSG drives, anyone who has a specific problem, (that I dont have for example, like manouvering slowley ect ) can simply be coached to use the DSG in a way that it will do as you want... basically learning a new tech..

sooo.... I belive when someone says "it does this" and others say "it doesnt" I beleive it probably does, but can be changed/cured by driving a different way (Of corse there will be some damaged boxes causing problems)

edit: could go on with many other examples, but wont bore you unless the reply warrent it!

comments welcome!

Nice Read Dave, Excellent observations

I would image that DSG is very much like Mitsubishi's 'fuzzy logic' autos of a few years ago where it effectively 'learns your style over a short period of time and then reacts accordingly as well as to a variety of inputs as you describe (such as throttle position and rate of change of position, load steering etc.).

It's therefore not surprising that different drivers will experience 'different' gearox reactions in the same car. My dad's Mitsubishi auto certainly reacted differently to me or him driving it in a very short amount of time , often sticking in gear for him but changinggear or on some occasions even hunting gears for me.

I agree with most of what's said, however you the op are in a totally different situation, as a learner driver car I bet the dsg ecu learning is having a cardiac arrest at times, so many different drivers driving it differently, the thing is as I've understood it the VRS system learns from the input the driver makes when driving the car ?

Makes sense. When I went in ChrisRs wifes car ( same as your) it was doing the oppisite, screaming away and not changing up till over 5000 revs on full throttle, that is why I didn`t take to it,as mine has 332 lb ft of torque so change up at 3500 revs as so much" lug" no need to scream the engine. Hers felt like a non turbo car (Honda vetec Toyota/vvti etc), but I have been in janner Sy and his is stage 2 but felt much more punchy before it changed up( I was a passenger) maybe I will have to go in yours for a spin to see if yours changes up earlier

Mine was in SPORT Alan when you were in it that day!!

Mine was in SPORT Alan

Your wife's Chris, Your Wife's

Sport should meen fast not bounce of the rev limiter before it changes up

The shift point's in the 7 speed DSG are in completely the wrong point. As they were set to protect the engine not keep it in the powerband.

I agree with most of what's said, however you the op are in a totally different situation, as a learner driver car I bet the dsg ecu learning is having a cardiac arrest at times, so many different drivers driving it differently, the thing is as I've understood it the VRS system learns from the input the driver makes when driving the car ?

yeah, but it adjusts very quickly.. I can feel it less reactive when I take over again, but it takes just a minute or so to return to the way i like it to drive

Makes sense. When I went in ChrisRs wifes car ( same as your) it was doing the oppisite, screaming away and not changing up till over 5000 revs on full throttle, that is why I didn`t take to it,as mine has 332 lb ft of torque so change up at 3500 revs as so much" lug" no need to scream the engine. Hers felt like a non turbo car (Honda vetec Toyota/vvti etc), but I have been in janner Sy and his is stage 2 but felt much more punchy before it changed up( I was a passenger) maybe I will have to go in yours for a spin to see if yours changes up earlier

you can have a go in mine at the harrogate meet if you like, I'll be along.

I have a 6 speed wet clutch DSG in my Passat, we have a 7 speed dry clutch in the Fabia 1.2Tsi and my uncle has a golf 1.6TDi with the 7 speed dry clutch DSG.

It's suprising how different they all are really, the Passat's 6 speed box with the wet clutches will happily slip lots more than the dry clutch boxes making it smoother but sometimes it will require a heavy foot to change down and other days it will shift down a gear when you want it to stay on the torque. I've found if I put it in manual and change up early a few times then stick it back in D it will choose earlier change up points.

The TSi's box is lightening fast through the gears, I've never had it holding onto a gear when it should be changing down but it can be a little jerky in 1st or R. The Golf diesel with the same 7 speed box is even worse in 1st or reverse especially on an incline, not as smooth as the wet clutch box. The Golf box does coast a lot though, lift off the gas and both clutches disengage and the car just coasts, a bit like a conventional auto.

On all 3 cars Sport mode is crap though, they all hold onto gears far too long and will do redline up changes with only half throttle. Whoever writes the software for Sports mode needs sacking. On the diesels sports mode just takes you away from the torque so it's probably slower than being in Drive.

Cheers

Lee

Yeah they really need to update the box software since the power runs out well before the limiter. I override it all the time with the paddles and change at around 6ish

I reckon it's all down to the amount of throttle travel you use.

I find I have to give far more to achieve the required result than I would have to with a manual.

I don't find this a problem as I can always resort to the paddles.

It's all part of the interesting learning curve and adds to my motoring enjoyment.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Tony :)

I reckon it's all down to the amount of throttle travel you use.

I find I have to give far more to achieve the required result than I would have to with a manual.

I don't find this a problem as I can always resort to the paddles.

It's all part of the interesting learning curve and adds to my motoring enjoyment.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Tony :)

in drive, the ammount of throttle you use directly influences how the box behaves more than anything else, I would agree with you there

and for some of the other comments above, sports mode does suck... I almost never use it ! on country back road blasts, I always use paddles instead, sports mode is of rare use.....

anyone like to use sport? and in what circumstances?

Will have a go in yours in normal mode if thats ok at the meet

off topic but can you get a full drivers licence learning in a dsg car? surely you would only get automatic

Will have a go in yours in normal mode if thats ok at the meet

you can have a play in all if you wish

off topic but can you get a full drivers licence learning in a dsg car? surely you would only get automatic

its a full UK liscence, but for auto's only, and it states that on the liscence

Cheers matey, you can have a go in mine as well

I only use sport if I get caught napping at the lights after waiting a while. If I know its a long wait I put it in park or even turn it off

D mode has two main states economy (keep as high a gear as long as you can) and slightly sporty (allow higher revs before changing). I notice that these modes are automatically switched between depending on certain things but I can always choose them based on how I set of from a standing start. If I start with very gentle throttle then the car adopts economy mode (change up between 2 and 2.5 k revs) if I apply more throttle when moving off then the changes do not happen until 3k revs. The same thing happens when moving but you need to apply much more throttle to notice the mode change.

The other thing that makes a difference is where the revs are when you want some power. Under standard driving conditions (economy mode) the revs are kept around 1.5k and the engine power band starts between 2k and 3k revs, in the 1.2 105bhp car you need to drop from 7th to 5th or 4th to get the revs into the power band. If you select S instead of D mode you notice the revs are always kept between 2k and 3k.

The DSG box is rule based, most of the time you can adjust your inputs to match the set of rules you would like it to follow (or force it to follow by using manual selections). Sometimes you are too busy concentrating on traffic rather than your inputs (e.g. throttle position and revs) to notice what choices the car has made for you.

anyone like to use sport? and in what circumstances?

Taking off from roundabouts...can't get used to the D hesitation, so prefer the S pick up

I just wish they'd have made the bloody paddles wider, it's nigh on impossible to change up coming out of a tight r/h bend with my stubby hands...

There is a misconception that DSG learns how you drive and adjusts accordingly. It does not. It adjusts to the way you are driving and that is not the same - ie from minute to minute and second to second it changes and adopts to the current conditions using data from throttle position, how hard you are braking, steering angles - and not just the absolute values but also the rate of change. I normally drive quite gently and the gears change up metronomically at around 1500 rpm getting into 7th at just over 40mph. Occasionally I go for a "drive it like you stole it" blast around the Yorkshire Dales A and B roads. In no time at all the gears are changing much higher and I don't see 7th until I'm doing 60 or so. Then reach a major A road in traffic and it goes back to economy mode using the lowest revs/highest gear possible.

The OP's use as a learner car illustrates why it has to be like this.

I found that when I first drove my DSG it had a real lag when accelerating. Like the OP I have found that you need to be assertive with the throttle - gentle tickling causes it to go into ultra economy mode where it seems very reluctant to change down.

I also find that the gearbox is very different with different engines - I have had a couple of 1.6 diesel Octavia DSG courtesy cars and what what goes as assertive with my 1.8 petrol is "tickling" with a diesel.

What do I mean by assertive? I don't mean "aggressive" ie jamming it to the floor every time. I think I mean that instead of gently squeezing the pedal to where you want it to be, give it more of a stab. Not a very good description but the best I can do!

S mode is a total waste of space! I use it to get rapid acceleration for overtakes but go back into D straight after. Though I'm not sure it is any better than the 2 or 3 downchanges you get in D when you rapidly floor the throttle. In the above mentioned blasts I use D - I can't understand why S mode will have you screaming along at 5000rpm in 3rd gear at constant speed.

Sharkrider, excellent observations from a professional. Well done! It is an adaptive system.

Edited 10 October, 201114 yr by Estate Man

I also havent found any true use of the Sport Mode... If I drive cool I use D, If I like to be more involved then it's on manual. There is no middle situation because even when I like to drive more spiritedly, S-Mode does numbly stay on high rpms when I don't want it to.

I don't know how the high-end semi automatic boxes of say ferrari work like, but in order for a sport programm to really be more efficient than the manual tiptronic mode, it really has to have well-thought algorithms, even more complex than the ones in D mode.

But, for my taste, the Manual mode of DSG works really good, comfortable and giving you control at the same time...

all good observations... this is where a forum like this shines, you get way more experiance than you yourself can have, its quite interesting to read others experiance and views.