Hi All,

I thought I'd ask you all before I make use of my RAC membership - I got into my 1.4 16v today, turned the ignition and all seemed as normal except that it got to the firing point and just stuttered out.

Fair enough I thought, maybe I released the ignition too early- I've done it before by accident and normally a second go has got it to fire up, but this time 3 or 4 attempts later and the engine is turning but doesn't seem to be firing.

I'm completely stumped as to what it might be- I have done mostly short journeys in it recently so thought maybe it might be the battery but I have no way to test, and the spark plugs, oil and all the filters were all replaced (at astronomical cost) at the last service ~4/5000 miles ago so if it's those I'll be royally peeved.

Any thoughts as to what I can check/do before I give in? I'm afraid I don't have a code reader box so can't give any readouts and the only garages that aren't main dealers around here specialise in Mercedes and Italians...

Thanks in advance!

Andrew

Edited 15 November, 201114 yr by andrewkeith5

Ok if it's cranking over on the starter then you can pretty much assume the battery is kosher

Start with the basics, when you turn the ignition on to do you hear the fuel pump running like normal?

Are you getting a spark?

Ok if it's cranking over on the starter then you can pretty much assume the battery is kosher

Start with the basics, when you turn the ignition on to do you hear the fuel pump running like normal?

Are you getting a spark?

I apologise for my uselessness- I don't think I've ever heard the fuel pump? and how would I know if I'm getting a spark?

When you turn the ignition on to the first position if you listen carefully you can hear a light whirring noise as the fuel pump primes, if you lift up the back seat you could put your ear to the circular cover and listen.

The 1.4 16v engines have a few different ignition system setups depending on engine code so it's hard to say a good way of testing for a spark without knowing the engine code because of the various different coil types used

are there any strange noises happening? The turns faster than normal? Does it run then die straight away or just not start at all?

Ahhhh that's what that noise is! Yes there's a definite buzzing for maybe 3-4 seconds on ignition stage one.

At first the turn seems slower than normal, but persevere and after maybe 20/25 seconds it increases in speed a bit. I would have kept going with it but just as it speeds up, the red oil light flashes 1s on/1s off, I let it flash 3 times before my heart wouldn't let me anymore!

I have checked the vital fluids- oil is ~1/4 of the way up the recommended zone, and coolant (not that it's really needed today) is sitting on the max line.

If it helps, it's a late 2003 model (registered September, I believe) on a 53 plate.

One thing that has occured to me - whilst is obviously does have fuel, it is currently in the red zone (hence why I want to start it to take it to the petrol station!)...the trip computer reckons there's 25 miles left, and I have started it with 5 before but that was on a level, and it's currently parked rear-first on a fairly slight incline, could this be affecting it i.e. not providing enough fuel to the engine?

EDIT: sorry, the whole reason the post is so long is because I was trying to find the image of the data plate - the Engine Code is BBZ

Edited 15 November, 201114 yr by andrewkeith5

The incline could be affecting it.....as you seen to run the tank low and do short runs (which this engine does not like)...then it could be picking up sludge and the fuel filter could be blocked! Also these engines do not like cheap non 98ron (Shell vpower, or equivelent) fuel.

Edited 15 November, 201114 yr by fabdavrav

Hmm, that's what I suspected :( I don't normally run the tank low, and I generally fill it right up, but I've just gone back to being a student so I don't run it much (shops and to the squash courts really) although it had 2x 160 mile trips at the start of the month :S

Alas the RAC are on their way so we'll see what they say, I think the fuel filter and spark plugs are the only things I cant check...

I'm surprised they don't like the 95-ron fuel - I can understand not liking the cheap s/market fuel which has probably caused this, I think I might have to treat her to a tank of BP Ultimate...

I'm surprised they don't like the 95-ron fuel - I can understand not liking the cheap s/market fuel which has probably caused this, I think I might have to treat her to a tank of BP Ultimate...

Take a look at the sticker on the inside on the fuel filer cap....it should say 98ron in big letters then 95ron in smaller letters.

Take a look at the sticker on the inside on the fuel filer cap....it should say 98ron in big letters then 95ron in smaller letters.

I've got an 04 Elegance and have never used 98ron fuel and never had an issue. The filler cap says 98/95, no difference in size so really can't see the octane rating being a cause, it's not a performance car and only kicks out 100bhp. Sludge in poor quality fuel my be an issue but doubt this soley down to the supermarket fuel.

When I had my 1.4 16v it started playing up like this... It'd just turn and turn and turn, and then eventually fire up like nothing was wrong...

It was the fuel pump relay. If you get it on a scanner and it throws up injection errors and a few other fuel system sounding problems then it could be this, it was in mine.

I got lucky though, it actually decided not to start whilst attached to my Mechs snap on diagnostics.

If it's more of a messy start up that still feels like it doesn't want to go then that could be the coolant temp sender.. but by the sounds of it, it's more likely to be the above.

Hi everyone,

Thanks to you all for your suggestions and fast responses. It turns out that it was just a lack of fuel (even though I thought I had enough to get to the petrol station!), thus the first attempt failed and subsequent ones just caused flooding in the engine.

All sorted in 10 minutes by removing the fuse for the fuel pump and burning off what was already in the engine!

Interestingly though, although the 98/95 RON label in the fuel filler cap is equal size, I've filled it with 97 RON BP Ultimate and it does seem to run better on it. At idle it sounds much less like a diesel than it did before, and running the car just seems a bit more eager to get going. It seems more willing to pull from low revs (e.g. Pulling from 25mph in 4th gear, previously there would be a little hesitation whereas now it pulls away nice and smooth), and seems to just be a bit smoother as you rev it up and maintain momentum. I don't know if its worth the extra £7 a tank though, I think I may alternate 95/98 with each fill.

Thanks again,

Andrew

Ps how do you attach an image on this forum???

Just one comment, in case in the future that it worries you again, with respect to the flashing oil warning light, this will be entirely down to the engine not firing up - monitoring system will, crudely speaking, have a timer that starts running as soon as you start turning the engine over, if the oil pressure is not "up" by a set time then the low oil pressure warning is issued. As your car failed to fire but you continued to run the starter, the system was issuing a warning. The only time that I have ever seen this happen in real life was when I flooded by Passat engine - that did give me a bit of a fright for a moment until I worked out what was happening!

I think that you will need to dump any pictures on a host site and place a link to them on your posting.

Anyway, where is the good all common sense that some other car makers use, ie if the engine is being turned but not running and the throttle is floored, a "fully open throttle" signal added to the engine turning, and this disables the fuel pump and allows the chamber and plugs to get "flushed" of excess fuel - and then the engine starts to fire and you release the throttle off the "fully open throttle" position and the fuel pump restarts and allows the engine to run.

Edited 15 November, 201114 yr by rum4mo

Anyway, where is the good all common sense that some other car makers use, ie if the engine is being turned but not running and the throttle is floored, a "fully open throttle" signal added to the engine turning, and this disables the fuel pump and allows the chamber and plugs to get "flushed" of excess fuel - and then the engine starts to fire and you release the throttle off the "fully open throttle" position and the fuel pump restarts and allows the engine to run.

Thanks for the advice re; the light flashing- I was fairly sure it couldn't have been an oil problem but it's nice to have some confirmation! It seems silly that the car should feel the need to tell you that you've been trying to start it for a while- the Astra didn't feel the need to tell me! On a side note I really need to stop flooding engines, twice is one time too many :(

That is an excellent proposal you make re: deactivating the fuel pump. Even if it wasn't documented, it would stop the engine from further flooding when people make the natural reaction of pumping the accelerator to try and start it. Then when someone in the know came along (or when someone not in the know read the manual) the car could easily be started without fiddling around in the fuse box. Incidentally is there a reason why Skoda didn't publish the fusebox layout in the owners manual?

I'm only talking from experience of a Passat B5 and a Polo 9N, but yes, VAG do not seem to make life easy with respect to fuse function identification. There will be a reversable picture card in the fuse box area, but in my mind, nothing beats having a very clear pictorial representation of "what" goes "where" - I seem to remember that one or both my cars have a mirror image of what the layout is - and I seem to remember that I started to redraw that a bit clearer - but can't be sure. We are talking here about a guide that will only ever get used when things turn bad - and having something that is not completely straight forward at a time of stress is just not good enough.

With respect to the oil warning system that VAG use, in all fairness, VAG cars don't seem to have an oil pressure warning light as other/older cars used to have, ie a light that was "on" until oil pressure was acheieved - but some of these older systems were not too clever as maybe VX placed their pressure switch way down in the oil gallery so the light took a few seconds to go off, and maybe Ford placed their pressure switch on the oil pump head so the light went off while the engine was being cranked.

Edited 16 November, 201114 yr by rum4mo