Hi people,

My first go at sealing the rear doors didn't turn out too well, so I was thinking about taking the carriers right off next time to do a more thorough job. But they are rivetted on, and I don't know what size rivets or self tappers to buy to refit.

Anyone gone down this route and know what size the holes are in carrier and door skin? Or what size rivets work, or self-tappers?

Ta muchly for any help.

Pete

They are a ******* nightmare size or rivet, i just drilled 2 holes either size and banged in 2 12mm self tappers.

Where are they riveted? At the top? I took mine off 3/4 of the way just by popping the plastic grommets out - and they are cheap and easy to source if you have damaged them...

Where are they riveted? At the top? I took mine off 3/4 of the way just by popping the plastic grommets out - and they are cheap and easy to source if you have damaged them...I

You're talking about the actual door card but the op is taking about the metal panel behind this.

If you want to put it all back together properly, skoda are the best place for the correct size I believe

Hmm, thought I'd try vagcat which has been offline for a while, and it's back:

No. 5 : N 90491101 Hex head bolt M6 x 10

Wonder if that means the doors used to have some sort of captive nut that these went into? Anyone?

That would be a whopping-great rivet or self-tapper to go through/into a 6mm hole.

:think:

later models of the mk1 were riveted for some stupid reason, as i said its a nightmare to rivet again, skoda will do them im sure but, i drilled 2 small holes either side of the hole i drilled the rivet out of and put self tappers in, and its solid!

A nice man in Kings Lynn (Walkers Skoda) helped me find the pop-rivet part number, N 91078801, and ordered me a large handful. This is a 6.4mm dia. beast of a thing, which a standard rivetter will probably not cope with. Googling that part number predictably brought me back here, to a thread about front door carriers, where everything I needed to know was to be found, including a link to a suitable rivet tool. http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/225912-drilling-out-the-carriers/

Thread Revival,

Would using a 6mm tap and a 6mm roofing bolt not work better?

Thought of this last night!

I like/prefer the idea of a bolted fitment, but M6 ain't going to work.

If the rivet's body is 6.4mm, the hole it goes through in the door metal must be at least that big.

Could probably use an M8, but that's starting to get pretty chunky head-wise, and you also have the issue of corrosion where you've tapped into fresh steel.

Here's a piccy of a genuine 'whopper' rivet :

i want to be able to take mine off with out trouble,, so m8 it is, roofing bolts have a flat head, or a normal bolt should be fine!

I've thought of a serious problem with your plan Trev.

Standard M8 thread has a pitch of 1.25mm, I doubt the metal of the door is a huge amount thicker than this, so you'll probably only manage about one-and-a-bit threads deep with your tap. This will be dead easy to strip if you tighten your bolts much more than finger-tight.

I'm still wondering what the early doors had that the M6 fixings went into, presumably some captive nuts? This would explain why they got changed to rivets and plain holes I think; cost-saving.

The idea of the rivet is the correct rivet will break off at a pre determined torque thus insuring the fixings aren't over tightened.

Was just for ease as i have taps and bolts, dont have rivets or a big enough rivet gun!

Hi, old thread but I thought I'd add my experience.

Back door leaks are a mare. The foam between the door and winder-carrier panel at fault and NEEDS to be removed.

I have read another user used 'nutserts', sounds like a great idea to me.

Sadly I read that too late.

Anyway, used standard, 4.8mm 16 mm flange rivets.

We got 16 galvanised washers, and put double sides tape on one side and stuck them to one side of the washer, and then stuck inside the door, behind the holes.

I used Wickes flexible roof & gutter sealant butyl rubber.

Tip: the window peg is better replaced as it pushes the large peg out. I recommend cutting down a nylon/plastic bolt then cutting a notch in it so you can screw it in (use gaffer tape to hold it on your screwdriver as you deliver it to avoid it falling and you crying.

That's a bril' idea Gman1978!

 

But I cannot find a "standard length" for the rivets in any catalogue. There are loads of different lengths.

 

Can you remember what length is needed for your method please?

Hi,

I got my rivets from ebay. Any ones that say large flange and 4.8mm will do. (100 of them) the heads are about twice as long as a standard rivet.

Screwfix have:-

94795: Flange Head Rivets 4.8 x 12mm Pack of 250, these will probably be the same as what i bought.

Also screwfix do galvanised washers:-

90729: TIMco EPDM Washer 19mm Galvanized Steel Pack of 100

These washers have a thick rubber washer stuck firmly onto one side.

We cut off the rubber from 16 of them (carefully!), smacking the left over metal washer with a hammer on a large flat worktop to flatten them out. (We actually had an anvil)

Then used contact cleaner (or any isopropyl will do) to clean the shiny side of the washer and clean the inside of the door holes, this will make it stick better. Put good double sided tape on the shiny side of each washer, cut out the tape from the centres (so you can see through them) and then stick them behind the holes in the door.

We pushed the rivets through:-

a washer (ones without the rubber removed) through the carrier panel,

through the door, through the you washer stuck behind.

The rivet gun was a pig. We ended up using a g-clamp to close the gun! Worked well.

Edited 28 January, 201412 yr by Gman1978

Note on rivets 4.8mm is the diameter of the head, this is typically the largest that cheaper (sub £90) pop rivet guns can handle so that's what I used. Skoda use the 6mm ones that need the bigger, pricier gun.

Also, for the hell of it i put loads more sealant round the panel after it was riveted

Edited 28 January, 201412 yr by Gman1978

I'm having a right time of it trying to get a set of rivetted door panels sealed up properly.  I think it's time to scrape the sealer off and strip the whole damn thing down.

 

I'm thinking about just going for the rivnut route.  Much easier and more futureproof and ultimately tidier than the rivets.

Can anyone confirm what the hole size is or what i'd need to go for to keep me covered?  I didn't measure them when I rivietted up one a while back. (test job to see if smaller rivets and washers worked,)

 

I'm thinking that the holes in the door skin are around 9mm or close.

I can get 8.9mm wide rivnuts with a 13mm lip which take an M6 bolt.

or

I can get 6.9mm wide rivnuts with a 10mm lip which take an M5 bolt.

 

My mate has one of these to do the job:

 

As for hole size, sorry not sure, some where between 6-9mm.

 

For mine it depended how good a job I did of accurately drilling them out previously, one of the holes I had was 2-3mm larger over all. so careful when drilling (use a larger bit than you think at first)

 

To anyone attempting this job, removing the old foam seal completely is the key! I've done 2 Fabias, -one was 2003 and a 2007 and just putting a sealant over the top only lasts so long (1-2 years) I found. yes, ignore that youtube video someone did about how do botch it.

 

The Mare was the putting back of the carrier panel, the sealant gets everywhere as you nee to do so many things as you put it back, the carrier is razor sharp (use latex gloves) The carrier slides in rear first, the plastic tag fits into the lock (which you have to pretty much guess, so it's not surprising that the sealant does get everywhere. I can totally understand why VW did what they did (not using messy sealant), but they sourced a foam seal instead of a rubber one.

 

note: careful-  never drill out the rivets that hold the window winder, you don't need to and it's a total bitch to put back. remove the window, (as you should do), before the carrier.

 

On early models, (up to late 2003 I think) the carrier is bolted (easier), but you have an extra thing to worry about - the locking indicator bar, which pushes through the carrier too. Later cars did away with this indicator. (and for good reason, they were pointless.)

 

After completing the task I could no longer unlock the door! I was swearing in a nooo what have I done! kind of way. Luckily I pulled the inside handle hard and it all reset and clicked into place. I was like.. Phew!

 

I recommend not shutting the door straight away, instead simulate the door closing with a large screwdriver into the outside of the lock (so it thinks the bar, that's on the body, has pushed it shut) -just try it on a working door to understand what I mean.

then central lock the doors and unlock and verify you can unlock and open the door with the inner and outer handles. -A stuck locked door is a very bad situation to try to fix I can tell you.

 

I've done dozens of panel refits on various vag cars.  Here's a tip, keep the lock module attached to the panel.  There's no need to take it off.

 

I think I'll need to drill out one of the rivets again and measure it.  Although I would think I would be able to get away with the either of the M5 or M6 ones.

Hi guys, found this on an internet search, thought I'd post my issue up. Regulator clip broken, no problem as have fixed this on my golf before, but my golf regulator panel is held in with bolts. The Fabia we have is held in with the rivets above.

 

Main dealer, these rivets are a bit expensive for what they are, but not bank breaking to get the issue fixed.

 

I know they are 6.4mm by 10mm, but can someone tell me what the flange width is?

 

Also, another thing, I'm thinking of fixing it with some M6 rivet nuts, which is how the Golf was made as standard, so that there is a captive nut and I just use a hex head M6 bolt, so if I need to get in there again for anything else, it'll be much simpler.

 

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Yes use rivnuts if you can.

[snip]

 

I know they are 6.4mm by 10mm, but can someone tell me what the flange width is?

 

[snip]

 

I've just measured one at 11mm (that's a fully pulled-up rivet, not sure it'll change at all).

 

The issue with rivnuts etc. is, don't they stick out a bit on the side that the panel is being pulled up against? Maybe not enough to matter though if sufficient sealant is used.

 

Someone I know (  , honest), might have used something very like this with the square nuts superglued to the back of the door panel.  I'm not sure this a good idea though as if the nut comes unglued during removal it becomes an issue...

Agree with rivnuts, not done it but looks like a plan. Skoda cheap'd out (and put me right off their future cars as a result tbh)

 

One always ends up wanting to fix something inside the door in the future. I'm certainly going to use rivnuts in the future if I do it again.

If you manage to it with rivnuts, if you're able to post the spec of what you used and if it worked well, that would be great for anyone looking at this in the future (myself included!)

 

Good luck.