Would a Revo map affect warranty?

[shark_90]

I'm disappointed to read a few of you pointing fingers my direction for calling people out and slagging off other tuners; I had no reason to post in here until somebody at Shark Performance made some skewed implications about our product (as it is the only one with cruise control switching technology) that I felt needed explained further.

It wasn't skewed - it was aimed straight at AwesomeMike after his post about detection and switching the map back to stock. Sorry if any offence was taken, none was meant, I was stating fact.

[shark_90]

An APR map is always present in the ECU, whether it's turned on or off. Shark SPS will replace original map, Revo's plug in does the same thing, AFAIK.

Just for clarity, Revo's SPS leaves the map in the ECU, our STS (along with other flashloading devices) does not. When a car with a Shark Performance map is put back to stock, it IS stock. Not a stock mode, not an interpretation of stock, actually stock.

[Babs]

Apologies, far too many TLA's flying around!

[Evan@APR]

Some choice quotes...

Not skewed, just presented as fact. An APR map is always present in the ECU, whether it's turned on or off. Shark SPS will replace original map, Revo's plug in does the same thing, AFAIK.

Presented as fact, but it leaves out information that at the dealership level APR remaps are undetectable, and also that any APR distributor can reload your stock remap. You're right about Shark, and the Revo SPS allows you to switch to different programs, but does not write a program onto the ECU each time you use it, so I'm inclined to believe a Revo customer would be in the same situation as an APR customer--go back to your Revo dealer for a flash back to stock if you're concerned.

Lies.

Not in the least. Dealerships using SVM (Software Version Manager) can perform an automatic check of the software version anytime they plug into a car. That is the only system with the ability to flag remapped cars if it detects irregularities, and it will store this information about the vehicle on Elsa. Even if a vehicle is detected by SVM to have been remapped and this is logged on Elsa, the warranty system is not automatically notified and it is the dealerships responsibility to have them take a further look at the vehicle in question and make warranty notations. After countless experiments in the EU, our software is still undetectable by SVM. Additionally, say a customer tells the dealership that the car is remapped but SVM is unable to detect it, then the burden of flagging and warranty voiding is put on the dealership, which can be quite daunting considering their diagnostic tools, VAS and now ODIS do not datalog. That elimintes their ability to check and record raised boost pressures for example. Short of putting the car on a rolling road with the remap ON, our remaps are undetectable at the dealership level here in the EU. Now, this is slowly changing as a program is being improved upon over time, but to date, none of my EU distributors or customers (including here in the UK) have reported these codes flagged and had warranty issues.

Patronising.

I’m sorry if the way I worded that statement made you feel patronized. Not everybody is switched-on to these concepts and I included it to help people understand what we're talking about so we're not just spouting calibration/tech jargon for it to go over everybody's head. I prefer my audience (and the community) to understand concepts tuners discuss so they can make educated decisions on who to move forward with.

This, backed up by our resident Master Tech:

Come on Babs! Don’t insult me thinking I write these statements blindly. You’re not the only person on here working with Master Techs and OEMs and VAG gods.

My point in this thread has always been twofold: A: APR software is undetectable at the dealership level, and B: that the OP has a few options to choose from if he's worried about warranty--not just the Shark unit.

If anybody else has any questions involving APR and warranty situations, I'll happily discuss them via PM or email. Sk4gw, let me know if this answers your question. Thank you.

[Brimma]

Has anyone noticed the new Bond film comes out on Friday?

Sorry, just thought I'd lighten the atmosphere a little

(I agree with Hedge on the aggression bit BTW)

[Yeti_Man]

It's a shame that the thread seems to be going downhill but I have to say I've found Evans posts interesting on the technical stuff rather than patronising but I guess if you already know how things work it could be taken in such a way. Then again, posting to a community of members with such differing abilities of understanding must occasionally be read wrongly by some of them.

APR is one of the very few company's I've not actually bought a software map from and tbh, I'm so into the quality of this Shark Performance one, I'm not likely too in the future either but I have to confess I do like the idea of being able to use the cruise control hardware to swap maps.

I also think it's a great benefit to the forum in having the tuners directly available and able to post into the community as they do. I've certainly learned a lot from it over the years. :-)

Regarding the topic, aren't we all just agreeing that nothing will show up on the dealers computer regarding a map initially BUT if they actually suspect it exists then they CAN see it by running a further routine?

[Babs]

Yeah, it's not gonna have a big red screen show up saying "REMAP!", but a dealer/independent/insurance assessor will easily be able to both find and prove that the engine is not standard, if they want to.

Whether or not this affects a warranty, would depend on what you are trying to claim for. For example, a suspension spring breakage couldn't really be attributed to a remap, whereas a turbo could. Note that's could, not would.

[MediaJunky]

Are there any tuners who offer warranty on the work they do or who accept responsibility for component failure due to their work?

[Ootohere]

You get the likes of TMC offering to sell you a Warranty for 'Eurozone Countries'.

http://www.tmcmotorsport.com/CarProducts.aspx

No idea if they are worth it, but then i would never use a TMC box, so no need to have to consider it really.

george

[Guest]

Are there any tuners who offer warranty on the work they do or who accept responsibility for component failure due to their work?

Superchips used to but it's highly contentious. The car manufacturer will claim any failure has arisen due to an unapproved modification and the tuner will invariably claim it's due to a pre-existing fault on the car itself. Remapping your car carries a risk that is difficult to mitigate against so if you can't accept it then don't remap.

[Hedge]

Can anyone further explain how ODIS works?

I was under the impression it could detect a map just by being plugged into the car as it would know what the car was supposed to come with from the factory and check against what was in the ECU, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[allan1888]

Can anyone further explain how ODIS works?

I was under the impression it could detect a map just by being plugged into the car as it would know what the car was supposed to come with from the factory and check against what was in the ECU, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

That's the way my dealers master tech explained it to me when I was discussing remaps with him. He told me it checks the information from the car against the information from the factory and any remap is flagged up and logged

[stever750]

Given that no dealer can detect a failed DV either by i) workshop diagnostic or ii) by test driving it then I'm happy to remap mine and let them find out for themselves. I'd be honest if directly asked, and accept the consequences, but am reasonably confident that unless the turbo blows up, then the warranty would be supported eventually for other engine failures. It might take a bit of argumentation, as after all they run a business, and will try to minimise warranty costs as much as they can. I guess you just need to be prepared to have to fight your corner more rosbustly should something happen

[john_y]

Hi,

To summarise:

• Techinically, yes it will invalidate the warranty 100%
  
• Practically, it's unlikely
  

John

[Ootohere]

To summarise some more.

'Maybe REVO Dealers should show this very clearly on their websites and tell customers.before doing any work on their vehicles'

george

[john_y]

To summarise some more.

'Maybe REVO Dealers should show this very clearly on their websites and tell customers.before doing any work on their vehicles'

george

That's a whole heap of problems which is very un-vag-like?

[arnold]

Having recently stumbled across this thread i must say there is some very interesting information. Evan from APR seems far more in the know than most and the reason i will be travelling across counties to have my car mapped there shortly. Its quite clear when looking at other maps available for the 1.4TSI APR are streets ahead and have more happy customers than other tuning companies. I think Georges post says everything beware of Revo.

[john_y]

Having recently stumbled across this thread i must say there is some very interesting information. Evan from APR seems far more in the know than most and the reason i will be travelling across counties to have my car mapped there shortly. Its quite clear when looking at other maps available for the 1.4TSI APR are streets ahead and have more happy customers than other tuning companies. I think Georges post says everything beware of Revo.

With respect, please back up your post with evidence.

[arnold]

Have a look at the Fabia 2 section and the amount of people having problems with Revo on the 1.4 TSI. Also plenty of other tuners as well. I had Revo on my previous Octavia vrs which was ok initially then had misfire problems. My neighbour had his turbo go belly up 3 months after a revo remap. Coincidence? All im saying is that most who have tried various other tuners have migrated to APR.

[P1TT8ULL]

Revo screwed my car up to the tune of 3k. Want me to go into detail???

[john_y]

Revo screwed my car up to the tune of 3k. Want me to go into detail???

No, but did they compensate you?

[P1TT8ULL]

Nope. I gave them 3 chances to help me resolve the issue and everytime Paul and Kev refused to speak to me on the phone.so just passed messages through the female that ,has no idea about anything technical and mechanical so half of what is said to her gets lost in translation, but the basic message I got from them was go away there's no way it could be our map. I'm gradually get bits and pieces together to start legal proceedings. As more and more peoples cars are going wrong the case against Revo gets stronger.

[stever750]

What happened that cost £3k?

[john_y]

What happened that cost £3k?

I think legal proceedings are in process so it would be unwise to reply to this question