Interesting discussion. I'd be interested to drive a modern TC auto with aggressive lock-up: if it could match efficiency of DSG it would be great. FWIW, my DSG gives about the same MPG I'd expect from a manual- my driving is mixed urban, queues, motorway and a few lanes.

Interesting discussion. I'd be interested to drive a modern TC auto with aggressive lock-up: if it could match efficiency of DSG it would be great. FWIW, my DSG gives about the same MPG I'd expect from a manual- my driving is mixed urban, queues, motorway and a few lanes.

I drove a couple of 1 series versions recently

figures for the 120D SE 2.0 diesel.

Urban mpg 50.4 manual, 54.3 auto

Extra Urban 72.4 manual, 72,4 auto

Combined 62.8 manual, 64.2 auto

Co2 g/km 119 manual, 116 auto.

0-62mph 7.2 manual, 7.3 auto

Max speed 142mph both versions

So the auto looks good compared to the 6 speed manual.

Also during extra urban when you would expect the gearbox to match the manual because it is locked up it does. But it beats the manual on the urban figure which is low speed when the torque converter is being used more. This may be due to the extra low first gear and more ratio's to keep the revs in the optimum rev range.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 23 September, 201213 yr by logiclee

This won't be a popular thing to say on a VAG forum but I am almost certainly going to buy BMW with the ZF 8-speeder for my next motor. (prepares to be brutally flamed lol) ;-)

Correct me if I am wrong but ZF8 is the latest in the automatic gearbox tech (together with better and better CVT units) and it is being compared to dry clutch DSG 7 box, which is 6 years old now and was first developed in 1980.

How often (and how much of it) oil has to be changed in ZF8 out of curiosity?

Oh, don't forget that ZF 8 is quoted to have gearshift speed of 200ms compared To DSG7's 8ms...

I drove 120i Beemer with auto box recently and was really disappointed. Completely gutless and even in S mode it felt like I was wrapped in bubble wrap, no feedback, no acceleration, horrible experience really. But it was the old 6 speed auto I think ?

Correct me if I am wrong but ZF8 is the latest in the automatic gearbox tech (together with better and better CVT units) and it is being compared to dry clutch DSG 7 box, which is 6 years old now and was first developed in 1980.

How often (and how much of it) oil has to be changed in ZF8 out of curiosity?

Oh, don't forget that ZF 8 is quoted to have gearshift speed of 200ms compared To DSG7's 8ms...

I drove 120i Beemer with auto box recently and was really disappointed. Completely gutless and even in S mode it felt like I was wrapped in bubble wrap, no feedback, no acceleration, horrible experience really. But it was the old 6 speed auto I think ?

The VAG dry clutch dsg is still cutting edge as far as dual clutch transmission goes and the 8 speed ZF is about the best conventional auto. Obviously the 9 speed ZF is due out and Hyundai are said to be working on a 10 speed.

You can't really do that amount of ratio's in a dsg as it uses conventional gears, the box would be too big and heavy. Torque converter autos use planetery gear sets so it's far easier.

The 120i must have been an old model as they have never done a 120i in the new f20 1 series. The old 120i was a normally aspirated 4cylinder engine with an old tech 6 speed auto, no wonder it felt poor. In comparison the new 118i gets a 1.6 turbo petrol and the 8 speed auto. It will do 0 to 62 in under 7.5 seconds and 140mph and still average over 48mpg.

Audi and bmw say no oil changes required on the 8hp. Many modern conventional auto's are the same.

Specialist do recommend changes at 80k miles if you are towing or off roading.

The vag wet clutch dsg is 40k miles an oil change at about £165 a time. I need it doing next service.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 23 September, 201213 yr by logiclee

The 120i must have been an old model as they have never done a 120i in the new f20 1 series. The old 120i was a normally aspirated 4cylinder engine with an old tech 6 speed auto, no wonder it felt poor. In comparison the new 118i gets a 1.6 turbo petrol and the 8 speed auto. It will do 0 to 62 in under 7.5 seconds and 140mph and still average over 48mpg.

I had an 05 plate 120i auto hire car for a while, it was OK, but terrible on fuel IME. Seats weren't up to much on the trim level I had either.

I am taking my 5-series for oil service and recall repair this Friday and will be taking a courtesy car. I will see what they give me on the day . Perhaps it would e worth giving them a call to see if I they have the new auto box one sitting about?

I think this is the future of Transmissions. It was used on the Honda Moto GP bike and Ducati 1199 Superbike.

http://www.zeroshift.com/

http://www.zeroshift.com/pdf/Zeroshift%20AT.pdf

It's ironic that CVT is meant to be the most efficient system, but to appease the marketing men, steps are introduced to simulate "gears", which makes it more inefficient.

I guess for most, driving anything automated makes it an auto. Paddles make it an auto with a better manual function - more race car like. Not many have gone for the sequential box option seen on rally cars/bikes.

I think this is the future of Transmissions. It was used on the Honda Moto GP bike and Ducati 1199 Superbike.

http://www.zeroshift.com/

http://www.zeroshift...eroshift AT.pdf

Errr, looks like they are in administration...

Google 'punto speedgear'. You should get to see the Technical stuff on it. The AA roadtest explains it well.

(it is an ECVT)

I had one from 2001-2004 on Motability Lease and it was great fun.

I used it as a sequential almost all the time on back roads. It made the best from the 1249cc.

Ahead of its time and what is coming back again now i think.

Better than many Autoboxes in small cars at present.

(i went and looked at a cheap one for sale a couple of months ago, and drove it,

it was as good fun as i remembered)

george

Google 'punto speedgear'. You should get to see the Technical stuff on it. The AA roadtest explains it well.

(it is an ECVT)

I had one from 2001-2004 on Motability Lease and it was great fun.

I used it as a sequential almost all the time on back roads. It made the best from the 1249cc.

Ahead of its time and what is coming back again now i think.

Better than many Autoboxes in small cars at present.

(i went and looked at a cheap one for sale a couple of months ago, and drove it,

it was as good fun as i remembered)

george

We had a Punto sporting speed gear, it was really good, sport mode, sequential shift etc, however the oil for the transmission was about £45 per litre when it came to servicing, we were quoted over £600 for the 40k service, bye bye Punto. Quite unreliable too, power steering issues, oil leaks and rust to mention a few issues, headlights were really good though.

I think the DSG combines both smoothness and quick changes with very good mpg. I regularly get around 60+ on normal runs but got 92.8 on a run from Loughboro to Sheffield with Cruise control on at a steady 56mph. Granted there was only about 5 miles of non motorway at each end. Its the 1.6 7speed DSG in a Jetta.

I think the DSG combines both smoothness and quick changes with very good mpg. I regularly get around 60+ on normal runs but got 92.8 on a run from Loughboro to Sheffield with Cruise control on at a steady 56mph. Granted there was only about 5 miles of non motorway at each end. Its the 1.6 7speed DSG in a Jetta.

Imagine what you could have achevied in a manual!