Possible design fault?

[White Flag]

I don't have the cover on mine. I've been on a 200 mile journey at 70mph in the most appaling driving rain. No Problems with the electrics.

Does it really matter one way or the other if you have this piece of plastic or not ? I'm going with the latter.

[Skodaman]

I don't have the cover on mine. I've been on a 200 mile journey at 70mph in the most appaling driving rain. No Problems with the electrics.

Does it really matter one way or the other if you have this piece of plastic or not ? I'm going with the latter.

If its supposed to be there and we haven't got it there could be long term issues, future electrical problems ? ( Too early to rule out electrical problems ), Rusting ? Alternator Failure ?

[MikeW]

I've just emailed this to Skoda -

Dear Sir/Madam,

Can you please advise me if the Citigo should have an alternator cover or not. Some Citigos have one some don't, there doesn't appear to be a pattern either. My Elegance 75ps doesn't have an alternator cover but the one in the Skoda showroom does, the S model in the showroom has one. there is great debate on the Briskoda forum whether it should be there or not see link below -

http://www.briskoda....e-design-fault/

Please advise on the issue as it is causing worry among owners.

I would appreciate a fast response.

I will place the response on the Briskoda Citigo Forum to ease owners worries.

Please advise how we should go about getting the alternator cover removed or getting one fitted if it has been missed out in production. This will obviously be a recall either way.

Many Thanks

Lets see if I get a response.

Good idea, i'd love to know if this is an issue or not.

[Crista]

I think the fact of whether it is supposed to be there or not has been overshadowed by the unbelievable length of time it is taking to answer such a simple question. If I was in a position to know and someone asked me the question I would find out and be extremely embarassed if I didn't. For those that have the cover fitted it is a significant piece of plastic correctly shaped with appropriate fixings; it does prevent the unwanted ingress of road debris and water spray. Without it contamination (maybe over time) of the alternator will occur. I really am beginning to think that there has been a shortage of components on the Citigo line and parts have used from the Up line or something similar. And whether it is supposed to be fitted or not the fact is that cars have come off the production line with (at the moment) inexplicable differences - that by any other name is a Quality Control issue and may be symptomatic of building 3 similar but different types of car under the same roof. When my broken limbs are a bit better I'm going to pop down to the VW Garage and have a peek under the Up bonnet to see what the arrangement is there.

[pedroxy]

Just another viewpoint...If I were the designer, I would be more concerned about heat dissipation around the alternator rather than water. Alternators recover even when fully submerged in water for brief periods of time, and get back to normal working when self heating dries them out. However, not getting rid of the heat properly can be an alternator killer.

I would perhaps remove the flap on vehicles destined for hot countries, and on all Greentech stop/start models where the alternator/starter can get seriously hot in use.

I would perhaps fit the flap for northern European markets, ..or as a low risk factory simplificaion, not fit it on any models.

As they can sell all the Citigos they can make, there may be factory confusion as cars are swopped about in order to desperately fulfil orders.

[Crista]

The alternator fitted to a car is not rated to be completely submerged in water. If it was it would be completely sealed and be included in the engines cooling system circuit. The only way that heat will affect its performance is if it is not being cooled as designed. The alternators under the bonnet will be rated far higher than the temps that are likely to be experienced in that area. If the alternator is contaminated with road debris/dust and salt through the winter, then any subsequent soaking with water will more than likely cause failure. At the end of the day we shouldn't even need to be having these discussions now as this could have been answered a long time ago - and I for one cannot wait to hear what the explanation is.

[Elegance75]

Just another viewpoint...If I were the designer, I would be more concerned about heat dissipation around the alternator rather than water. Alternators recover even when fully submerged in water for brief periods of time, and get back to normal working when self heating dries them out. However, not getting rid of the heat properly can be an alternator killer.

I would perhaps remove the flap on vehicles destined for hot countries, and on all Greentech stop/start models where the alternator/starter can get seriously hot in use.

I would perhaps fit the flap for northern European markets, ..or as a low risk factory simplificaion, not fit it on any models.

As they can sell all the Citigos they can make, there may be factory confusion as cars are swopped about in order to desperately fulfil orders.

You mention cars with the Greentech will get hot, so do the Greentech models not have the cover then and the "normal cars" have the cover? or are the cars and cover a miss-match?

[MickA]

Skodaman - excellent idea. Lets hope you get a reply for all of us!

MickA - looking at the photograph of your cover, I am intrigued by the scratches. Cars that come off the production line just don't look like that! Two scenarios:

1). Somebody tried to remove it because it shouldn't be there.

2). Somebody fitted it later because it should be.

You takes your pick! :-(

I have also been studying yours and BossFox's pictures of the cover - they don't seem to be of the same type and shape. I have been using what appears to be a radiator, or aircon pipe apparent in both as a reference. What do you think?

Marks, scratches, thumb prints etc show up to look worst than they are, especially on black plastic surfaces. On my photos those scratches don't really mean that panel has been messed with. And has been said the part needs to be in place before the front of the car is bolted on because I can't see a way of adding or removing it otherwise. :think:

Mick

[Skodaman]

My mates 75ps Greentech hasn't got the cover either.

Has anyone who's got a Greentech engine got the cover ?

Is it just Greentechs that haven't got the cover ?

[MickA]

My Greentech 75PS has the cover.

There is no pattern to which car/engine has, or doesn't have these covers. And it seems by build date either.

Mick

[Skodaman]

My Greentech 75PS has the cover.

There is no pattern to which car/engine has, or doesn't have these covers. And it seems by build date either.

Mick

Ok cheers

[Crista]

I have seen two recent build green techs that have the cover.

[Taylor93]

This is another point, it doesnt appear to me to be any consistancey to what models do and dont have a flap, I feel its clearly a QA issue with skoda, its not a high priority of course, wont effect short term.

Hopefully skoda will reply soon!

[CortinaGT]

Perhaps Skoda are 'field testing'?

Consider these two points if the cover is not supposed to be removed before delivery:

1). They are aware that water ingress could cause long term alternator problems due to the low and short car front and the location of the alternator. Fit cover.

2). They are aware that that overheating of the alternator (particularly the regenerative ones) could cause premature failure. Leave ventilation as originally designed.

Await results of long term, large scale testing before finalising, or fine tuning, from the results.

My Greentech Elegance does not have the cover and I too have driven through some appalling weather recently without problems!

[Feebet]

Just picked ours up from the dealer complete with cover over alternator.

Car is Elegance 75 Greentech

Build Week 38

Edited 15 October, 2012 by Feebet

[Crista]

It's either a quality control issue or a build/assembly error. If it was intended to be removed or fitted during the PDI then it would be known about. Skoda will not be "field testing " an alternator with the risk that it could fail leaving someone stranded or cause a fire. Either of the two tests or both could be done in a very short space of time under controlled conditions.

[CortinaGT]

Car design is not perfect! So after accelerated testing, manufacturers do 'keep an eye' on things that might be a problem. Take the VAG 180bhp engine with the supercharger and turbocharger - the short term 'accelerated' testing did not show that there was a problem - we all know what happened 'in the field'!!

Accelerated testing can never really produce the full effects of long term running.

And why do some Volvo C30's catch fire - the accelerated testing did not show there was a problem there! Of course, we believe no manufacturer would knowingly put users at risk. But a friend of mines son had to get out of his C30 very rapidly when it caught fire with major damage, He was not the only one, as has been admitted to him.

Anyway, without a answer it was simply another thing to put in the 'melting pot' considering the above.

[Skodaman]

No response from Skoda yet to my email....

[CortinaGT]

Anyway - back to the main subject.

I have a scan of the following lock carrier D if somebody can advise how to attach it to a posting?

Looked at the Cititgo's in my dealer this pm. None had the 'cover'.

Checked in the parts dept listings and it is not shown as a separate part either, only the complete plastic frame known as a 'lock carrier D' and the diagram is not clear enough to see if it incorporates the 'cover' or not as it is shown from the nearside. However, there are two lock carriers listed - ISO 805 588 D and F. D is shown as >> - 24.10.2012 and F is shown as >> - 25.10.2011. I am advised that F now supersedes D despite the dates not following! Very clear ain't it :-(.

Two points - no separate cover is shown, the area for the cover is not clear and the part number is being changed for a different version from 25 Oct 2011 (This has to be a misprint as the preceding part expires on 24 Oct 2012).

[Crista]

Car design is not perfect! So after accelerated testing, manufacturers do 'keep an eye' on things that might be a problem. Take the VAG 180bhp engine with the supercharger and turbocharger - the short term 'accelerated' testing did not show that there was a problem - we all know what happened 'in the field'!!

Accelerated testing can never really produce the full effects of long term running.

And why do some Volvo C30's catch fire - the accelerated testing did not show there was a problem there! Of course, we believe no manufacturer would knowingly put users at risk. But a friend of mines son had to get out of his C30 very rapidly when it caught fire with major damage, He was not the only one, as has been admitted to him.

Anyway, without a answer it was simply another thing to put in the 'melting pot' considering the above.

Yep - I agree with all your thoughts - I think we are all finding this a tad frustrating. Whether it should be there or not there is no apparent logic to its inclusion or omission to date. There have been a lot of credible theories to date but I think I am favouring the mixed parts bin theory Up/Citigo. When I get my car, if we still don't have an answer I will be experimenting with my laser thermometer and at the very least will be treating the alternator and surrounding area with ACF50 - if I don't have the cover fitted.

[Taylor93]

but even if they were field testing, they wouldnt leave a piece of plastic so poorly attached/loose. When i saw bossfox's it did seem to be very loose.

If they are field testing two different designs, they would have designed the plastic panel to fit correctly and to have durable fixings on them so if that design is deemed the better option they already have the equipment designed/produced ready to be fitted.

Has anyone checked the Factory Location ID on the VIN? surely we could find out what factory they are coming from?

[CortinaGT]

All three Up! Variants (Skoda Citigo, Vw Up!, Seat Mii) are made in the same factory in Bratislava alongside the Porsche Cayenne and the VW Toureg according to the Car Dealer magazine Citigo You Tube review below:

Not only does it show some of the factory, but the review trip across Europe, visiting six capitals in four days in a Citigo, is worth a view too!

(Edited because the original link was for mobile viewing)

Edited 15 October, 2012 by CortinaGT

[CortinaGT]

Anyway - back to the main subject.

I have a scan of the following lock carrier D if somebody can advise how to attach it to a posting?

Two points - no separate cover is shown, the area for the cover is not clear and the part number is being changed for a different version from 25 Oct 2011 (This has to be a misprint as the preceding part expires on 24 Oct 2012).

Can somebody explain how I can attach the j.peg scan of the lock carrier ( the radiator support) so that you can all see the manufacturers parts drawing of the item which either holds, or does not hold, the infamous cover?!

[Skodaman]

Just picked ours up from the dealer complete with cover over alternator.

Car is Elegance 75 Greentech

Build Week 38

Enjoy the car but remember no one knows if that cover is supposed to be there or not yet !

[andy0681]

but even if they were field testing, they wouldnt leave a piece of plastic so poorly attached/loose. When i saw bossfox's it did seem to be very loose.

If they are field testing two different designs, they would have designed the plastic panel to fit correctly and to have durable fixings on them so if that design is deemed the better option they already have the equipment designed/produced ready to be fitted.

Has anyone checked the Factory Location ID on the VIN? surely we could find out what factory they are coming from?

I was informed all citigo/up!/mii 's built in VAG plant in Bratislava (Slovakia)... thus why were getting delays for all three makes reported. This is of course the final assembly, but perhaps parts made elsewhere, such as alternator. but considering all assembled in one place, this issue is odd and even more so that nobody can explain why, or if it even should be there.

I live in Bergen, Norway... 270+ rain days per year and 2500mm on average. So the alternator will be both frozen and drenched here. important for me to know if it should be there or not Look forward to hearing if someone gets clue from Skoda.

Edited 15 October, 2012 by andy0681