REMAP - Insurer now refusing to provide a quote

[Guest]

I wouldn't as there's a risk they wouldn't take it in px plus if you've returned it to standard then why bother? Even if you did tell them do you actually think they would tell any potential buyer...? Do youself a favour, keep it to yourself.

[littleade]

+1

They had the chance to ask you f it had been mapped when you presented it for trade in if they didn't that's their loss IMO

[Kiwibacon]

Jonno, I'm not being naiive at all. I map one of my own cars myself so I have some idea what's involved. From that I have a fair idea how hard it would be to decipher a map in a car and prove it was a performance modification.

I should also make this clear, I am not advocating or encouraging insurance fraud of any description. I am simply pointing out the technical difficulties they face in proving state of tune after an event.

For example.

Map in the car isn't the same one it left the factory with. That's not proof of anything. Car manufacturers often roll out upgrades which are reflashed at the dealer during service without the guys doing it actually knowing what's happening.

A different map could also be an eco map (which some insurance companies won't care about), a DPF removal remap (which is part of an exhaust repair) or indeed a performance map.

There is no way for an insurance company to prove how much power a vehicle is putting out without putting it on dyno rollers. Sure you can get an idea from the injected fuel quantities and requested boost, but unless all the limiters in an ECU (torque limiters, airflow limiters, temperature limiters, smoke limiters etc) are allowing that injected fuel quantity, then those fuel quantities or requested boost may never happen. Then we get into hardware issues which can make any engine produce more or less power than another with exactly the same control set.

It is hours of work to pull a map and go through it to try and determine (again not prove) that performance has been altered. I can't see an insurance company bothering unless there was a strong suspicion of exactly what they wanted to find.

Normally if they were looking for significant ECU tuning modifications, there will already be significant hardware modifications required to support those. Anything the insurance company wished to hang someone on would be far easier and better dealt with by proving physical modifications rather than code.

[Kiwibacon]

I suspect insurance companies plugging into car diagnostics are simply downloading the data from the last trip.

[Brimma]

I should also make this clear, I am not advocating or encouraging insurance fraud of any description. I am simply pointing out the technical difficulties they face in proving state of tune after an event.

You might not be encouraging it, but you are in a roundabout way suggesting to people that they could get away with not notifying their insurance company (I'm referring to increased power maps here)

So at the end of the day it boils down to morals and honesty

Honest people will notify their insurance companies and suffer the inevitable increases, the dishonest won't........end of

[FUBAR]

I am looking at a house I would like to buy I had an insurance quote recently and it was weird was a major comparison site used.

Old address £570 (no remap) - £690 (with remap)

New address £460 (no remap) - £1155 (with remap)

That makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever the addresses are a matter 8 miles apart and if one was a higher risk by address I would have expected both to rise not one go up other go down with/without remap lol

[Brimma]

I am looking at a house I would like to buy I had an insurance quote recently and it was weird was a major comparison site used.

Old address £570 (no remap) - £690 (with remap)

New address £460 (no remap) - £1155 (with remap)

That makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever the addresses are a matter 8 miles apart and if one was a higher risk by address I would have expected both to rise not one go up other go down with/without remap lol

That does make no sense whatsoever..........I can feel a few telephone calls coming on

[FUBAR]

That does make no sense whatsoever..........I can feel a few telephone calls coming on

Was a hypothetical one. Do not need insurance yet and have not bought that house and may not, I was just bored. Also what makes it more annoying for the quotes it went from:

Old address (on street)

New address (locked garage)

That makes the no map quotes in same risk post code area make some sense but perhaps there is a fear being a manual it might be too powerful to be tamed by bricks and mortar.

[chris j]

I'm pxing my octavia next Saturday. I've had it remapped for the last two years but have returned it to standard to sell on. Do i tell the dealer that I've had the car remapped so they can inorm the next buyer?

If it's returned to standard then surely no need?

BTW how did you get it returned to standard? Did you take it back to the tuner who mapped it or just get a Skoda dealer to reflash ECU with latest standard software? I'm reluctantly contemplating getting the map removed from mine given a need to put the missus (1yr experience) on the insurance and the difficulty of finding cover just for me last summer after Admiral told me they wouldn't renew.

[Mison]

I used my STS unit supplied by Shark. Very simple: took 3-4 minutes.

[mannyo]

+1

They had the chance to ask you f it had been mapped when you presented it for trade in if they didn't that's their loss IMO

+ another one, I did have one dealer refuse to buy my old remapped MK1 vRS even if it was standard. They knew it was remapped as it was quiet obvious when driven.

[chris j]

I used my STS unit supplied by Shark. Very simple: took 3-4 minutes.

That would make life simpler, not an option for me unfortunately having gone down the Revo route. (loving the map, just not loving the extra £400 a year on the insurance even before I try and put the missus on...)

[skodacarman]

Being devil's advocate, I can see it from the insurance companie's point of view.

Statistics say that driver of a modified car drives faster and is more accident prone than a driver of the same type of car that is unmodified.

This is nothing personal, it's a 'population average' taken from data gathered over the years, and recorded in the insurance companies' actuarial tables.

Why pay for more stomp if you're not going to use it? Likewise, if you didn't know you had it, it doesn't mean that you aren't using it.

Taking risk into account means that insurance costs can be tailored - low for some high for others .

[Chrispy]

I had my Shark map reverted back to standard when I traded the car in. But that means the flash counter on the ECU will still not be as it was when it left the factory (at zero I assume), even though the map is a standard one.

How does that work then as the car is no longer modified? That's when it's rolling road o'clock surely?

[TDIum]

Be civil to each other please.

I have been accused of trolling in this thread, and almost all of my responses to this accusation have been deleted by moderators. I have not recieved any explanation for this. Nor have the original accusations been deleted.

[gadgetman]

I have been accused of trolling in this thread, and almost all of my responses to this accusation have been deleted by moderators. I have not recieved any explanation for this. Nor have the original accusations been deleted.

It's have tidied a number of posts, not just yours.

You can report any missed to staff to action. We don't explain everything we do, we hide posts to keep the peace and rules.

[gadgetman]

To be able to prove it, they'd need the original file and a competent tuner to show the differences. They'd have to prove that any file they had for comparison was valid and was the latest dealer reflash that was actually applied to that car.

From a technical point of view, I can't see them being able to prove anything without testimony from a competent tuner. Unless they could match your file to a commercially available remap. In which case they'd have to buy all the remaps files and troll through to compare.

They'd have tools to check if a manufacturer ecu file or not, and likely a way to guesstimate power from a map file. They'd likely confirm on a dyno if they saw an opportunity to wriggle out of your claim.

[Kiwibacon]

Gadgetman, there is no way to determine from a file alone whether it's been modified or not. A hex dump in isolation can't prove anything. To dyno the car would have to be drivable and then they'd have to compare to an identical car of similar miles to verify the claim. I'm sure we're all aware of stock VAG engines producing more than rated power with no modifications.

I'm pretty sure Mr Insurance man plugging into mr poor sods crashed car is instead pulling the last trip data out of the computer. These record such things as distances and speeds. If they find a speed in excess of legal limits, there's their out right there. Remaps wouldn't be worth their hassle.

The police have used data from an airbag computer to prosecute a driver in my country. They found he was doing around 155km/h shortly before his airbags went off.

Case closed.

[studmuffin]

a DPF removal remap (which is part of an exhaust repair) or indeed a performance map.

So if I were to have a dpf removal with no increase in power, would I still have to notify my insurance company ?

[skodacarman]

So if I were to have a dpf removal with no increase in power, would I still have to notify my insurance company ?

It would be best to let them know. With the DPF removed, it would not meet EU type approval. Remember that the insurance loss adjusters make their living by refusing or reducing claims. Don't give them any reason to do so.

[Wardy]

So if I were to have a dpf removal with no increase in power, would I still have to notify my insurance company ?

Yes. Because it's a change from the original manufacturer specification for the car.

Having seen this thread develop, I'm sure some will now construe this to mean you have to tell them when you add an air freshener. But I think, and hope, the majority here are capable of applying some common sense about what they do, and don't, need to inform an insurer about.

[Gyp]

Having seen this thread develop, I'm sure some will now construe this to mean you have to tell them when you add an air freshener. But I think, and hope, the majority here are capable of applying some common sense about what they do, and don't, need to inform an insurer about.

Well, you say that, but having seen the way motorcycle insurance has gone over the last few years where they will even point out stickers that shouldn't be there, I'd not be so sure.

I have to admit that I like to be fairly pragmatic, but the insurance companies appear to be taking an alternative line which does make it hard.

The odd thing is that it doesn't make sense (to me at least) to tell them when you pop the roof rack, roof box and bicycles on the top, or a caravan on the back and those are rather significant changes.

BTW, I'm glad you either didn't spot or ignored the "Paging Wardy" post I put up a while back as with the benefits of hindsight, I now know that I like the leather armrest on my jumbo box and would not prefer fabric. That jumbo box being something that I've not advised my insurer about.

[Huskoda]

The odd thing is that it doesn't make sense (to me at least) to tell them when you pop the roof rack, roof box and bicycles on the top, or a caravan on the back and those are rather significant changes.

Actually my insurer did initially tell me they need to know whenever I use roof bars! The call centre guy fell back from that when I queried if they *really* want me to call several times a weekend.

I don't really honestly know where that stands any more.

[Wardy]

BTW, I'm glad you either didn't spot or ignored the "Paging Wardy" post I put up a while back as with the benefits of hindsight, I now know that I like the leather armrest on my jumbo box and would not prefer fabric. That jumbo box being something that I've not advised my insurer about.

Nope missed that one I'm afraid, sorry. Glad I've helped you avoid yet another insurance pitfall though

[Gyp]

Nope missed that one I'm afraid, sorry. Glad I've helped you avoid yet another insurance pitfall though

Well, as the Greenline was never offered with a Jumbo Box, the fact that it's got one probably means that I should ring the insurance and point it out to them. Along with the Dynamat.

Unless of course I'm simply transporting them them in the car as (bolted/stuck down luggage)