Wrg2 for me too

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I don't have a choice when it comes to tyres, mines a company car, i can only get the tyres changed when they are completly knackered, and then I can only have fitted what the lease company says I can have, usualy mich energy's. I have done 55k miles in the last 14 months and the only time I've lost grip was on a dry road after the 2nd set of rear tyres wore the outer tread after a bad 4 wheel alignment. Not had any problems on the ice roads thankfully, there is a coucil gritting station on the outskirts of my village but in the 9 years Ive lived here I've never seen a gritter in the village. So yes for some winter tyres might make a difference to some but so long as you don't drive like a loon I can't see the need to buy extra tyres for the few days of winter we get.

Yes, but they are better in the rain too - and we get a LOT of rain in the UK

I'm going to stick with them permanently on both cars.

Its been well proven that winter tyres grip far better than summer tyres. You only have to google it and hundreds of videos tests are available to watch.

The problem i have with them is that 1) We dont get winters really bad enough often enough to justify them. 2) Mine felt horrible on dry or just damp roads. Very squirmy and triggered DSC very easily. Didnt inspire confidence when driving.

I have only had 1 set of winter tyres. Had these on my BMW. They were pirelli sottozero on steel rims so 205/55/16 i think.

Regarding point 1), I know they supposedly work better at below 7 degrees but this was not my experience of them. Mine felt really unstable like the car was moving around on the tread blocks. I hated them for this.

Bad winters for me equals lots of compacted snow and ice on the road. We just dont get these very often. Worst winters i can remember was 2 and 3 years ago. Even then the roads were clear very quickly and i managed through both these winters in my BMW on summers. Yes i got stuck 3 times but was easily pushed out. The cost of winters versus being stuck for a total of 10 minutes over 2 years in 2 bad winters just doesnt stack up. Unfortunately i didnt figure this out untill later as the next year i jumped on the bandwagon and bought winter tyres. The result - no snow the following year and then i traded the car in.

If the winters tyres felt like normal tyres on normal roads i could forgive them as it wasnt their fault there isnt enough snow in the UK but its the overiding instability issue that tarnishes my experience of them. I now prefer the consistent feel of my summer rubber despite the poorer grip levels. The winter tyres just didnt feel stable when driving normally on clear roads.

Conclusion - Im going to buy all season tyres soon to fit my original VRS alloys and am keeping my fingers crossed they feel comparable to normal tyres in normal conditions yet provide adequte additional grip to deal with our mild and inconsistent winters.

I do wonder whether most of the people who hated the feel were changing rim / tyre size as well. From previous experience that makes quite a difference to feel regardless of tyre type. Would be exaggerated if going from run-flats to standard sidewall tyres.

Having changed to same size winters on my stock rims the difference is far less than I expected in terms of feeling unstable.

I am actually going to leave the winters on and see how they go as it warms up.

I actually find my winter tyres more comfortable and quiet than my summers. When I had a tyre split and had to put the summers back on for a few days, I hated the ride of my car. Mind you, I don't mind it wallowing (a bit) through bends and don't drive it hard.

My summers are 205/60/15 and winters 195/65/15 so no real difference in sidewall height.

I do wonder whether most of the people who hated the feel were changing rim / tyre size as well. From previous experience that makes quite a difference to feel regardless of tyre type. Would be exaggerated if going from run-flats to standard sidewall tyres.

Having changed to same size winters on my stock rims the difference is far less than I expected in terms of feeling unstable.

I am actually going to leave the winters on and see how they go as it warms up.

I did think this. My winters were still run flats but the tyres width and profile did change considerably. My M-Sport had 225/45/17 on the front and 255/40/17 on the rear so changing to 205/55/16 is a dramatic change. Thing is ive driven cars with tyres narrower and more baloony than these 205/55/16 wheels and they didnt feel "squirmy" like my winters did.

Maybe the M-Sport BMW was set up for a particular tyres size and thus changing so dramatically did corrupt its handling. To be honest i kind of wish this is the case as i would like to buy winter tyres for my Skoda but i just cant look past this experience i had of them.

I did think this. My winters were still run flats but the tyres width and profile did change considerably. My M-Sport had 225/45/17 on the front and 255/40/17 on the rear so changing to 205/55/16 is a dramatic change. Thing is ive driven cars with tyres narrower and more baloony than these 205/55/16 wheels and they didnt feel "squirmy" like my winters did.

Maybe the M-Sport BMW was set up for a particular tyres size and thus changing so dramatically did corrupt its handling. To be honest i kind of wish this is the case as i would like to buy winter tyres for my Skoda but i just cant look past this experience i had of them.

Always best to go with your personal experience and feelings on things like this. I braved it this year as I was offered the tyre stupidly cheap while needing 2 new summers.

They are definitely better in really bad conditions but I have always managed on summers all year round before.

I actually wanted to try Bridgestone all seasons but couldn't find any each time I went hunting. Would be my preferred long term option to be honest.

Hope I came across as curious rather than opinionated :-)

I actually wanted to try Bridgestone all seasons but couldn't find any each time I went hunting. Would be my preferred long term option to be honest.

Well if they are anything like their Blizzak winter tyres then I wouldn’t bother, got them on the Superb at the moment and they are crap compared to the Nokian WR G2 and WR A3’s.

Just driven along the A45 between from fortmund in direction koln in a blizzard in places. Ok down to 60kmh but all the trucks and cars are moving up hill no delays. They all have winter tyres fitted...

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....until its a legal requirement here (like on the continent) most motorists will not buy them

...Result. We have chaos with 1/2" of snow

Doesn't need to be a legal requirement. Just fine people under a CU code when they obstruct traffic or cause accidents, like they do in Germany. I believe its technically not a legal requirement there either.

Unless its illegal you cannot fine people for not having them can you?

Here is the law pertaining to some European Countries:

Austria:

In Austria, the law states that between 1st of November and the 15th of April, a car - that has a maximum weight 3.5 tonnes - can only drive in winter conditions (i.e. snow, ice, slush, etc) as long as winter tyres have been fitted. If an all-season tyre bears the "M + S" mark on the sidewall, these will be considered as an adequate alternative.

If you do not follow these laws, you risk a fine of around €5,000 as well as losing your vehicle to the impound lot.

There are also major ramifications to your insurance. If you are in an accident during the winter and you do not have winter tyres fitted to your car, then your policy will be deemed null & void.

Bosnia Herzegovina:

The motorists of Bosnia Herzegovina are required to fit winter tyres onto their vehicle from the 15th of November to the 15th of April. However, if a driver uses snow chains on their ‘normal’ summer tyres, then this is seen as an acceptable alternative.

Denmark:

During winter, Denmark experiences some very low temperatures. For this reason, the Government strongly recommend the use of winter tyres; however, Danish law does not require drivers to change to winter tyres.

Finland:

Finland suffers from some serious winter weather and as such the fitting of winter tyres is compulsory from the 1st of December to the end of February. When defining what constitutes a winter tyre, the law states that it must have the M&S symbol on its sidewall.

France:

As a general rule, the fitting of winter tyres is not compulsory. There are however, certain regions in the mountains that will indicate when the use of winter tyres is necessary.

Germany:

Recently, Germany added new rules to their Highway Code. According to the law, motorists must have winter tyres (that bear the M+S symbol) if they are driving on snow, black ice or roads covered in frost.

If you are caught driving in these conidtions withouth the appopriate tyres fitted, you are likely to be fined €40. This amount will be doubled if you are the reason for any delays to traffic. You will also lose one point on your driving license.

Hungary:

Fitting winter tyres is not a legal requirement. However, a vehicle must have snow chains onboard in case winter driving conditions become extreme.

When arriving at a border point, if there are signs up which indicate that snow chains must be fitted, only vehicles with satisfactory snow chains onboard is allowed to enter the country.

Iceland:

From the 1st of November up to 14th of April winter tyres are compulsory in Iceland. These dates are subject to change and if you are planning on visiting Iceland, you should check this out before driving during the winter.

Italy:

Winter tyres are not compulsory in Italy. However, if local signs indicate that snow chains should be carried in the vehicle, you are required to do so.

One region which differs is the Val d'Aosta area (in the north-west of the country). From the 15th of October to the 15th of April vehicles must be either fitted with winter tyres or snow chains.

Luxemburg:

The use of winter tyres is not compulsory. However, tyres which are deemed to be inappropriate for winter conditions are used then you could – and you are involved in an accident – then you could face fines as much as €145.00 as well as receiving the blame for the accident.

Poland:

You do not need to fit winter tyres according to Polish law. However, they are highly recommended by the Government, especially in rural areas. This is because there is very little in the way of snow clearing on the smaller country roads.

Norway:

Surprisingly, winter tyres are not compulsory here. That is unless there is ice or snow covering the roads. In this case winter tyres or tyres with snow chains fitted must be used.

Slovakia:

There are no specific laws in Slovakia concerning the use of winter tyres. However, in the case of an accident, if a motorist does not have winter tyres fitted to his/her vehicle they have a far greater chance of receive the responsibility of any damage incurred from the collision.

Sweden:

Winter tyres are mandatory from the 1st of December until the 31st of March. The winter tyres must also have a minimum tread depth of 3mm and the marking M&S on their sidewall.

Spain:

When driving in Spain, you will need to have winter tyres fitted if you spot a traffic sign indicating that winter tyres (or snow chains) are compulsory in that area.

Switzerland:

There are no specific laws in Switzerland concerning the use of winter tyres. However, in the case of an accident, if a motorist does not have winter tyres fitted to his/her vehicle they have a far greater chance of receive the responsibility of any damage incurred from the collision.

In certain areas there is a requirement to use winter tyres. Road signs are used to indicate to a driver whether or not they are on a road that winter tyres must be fitted.

Well, they can make a new CU (Construction and Use, the same as tread depth, sidewall damage etc are in). I will go and have a look, but I think the standard one just says something like 'tyres unfit for purpose' which would count.

The people who don't need to go out for the few days of bad snow or those who say they have the skills to drive regardless will be unaffected.

Ahh the winter tyre discussion.

I am from Hampshire and we had 3 days of snow. Really not going to fork out 600 odd quid just for a few days of snow.

"But you can drive better in cold conditions" I hear you say? I have driven in cold conditions in summer tyres for 7 years with no issues.

A complete waste of money unless you live halfway up a Scottish mountain.

On a side note, when it did snow I still drove 50 miles in those 3 days again with no problems.

Edited 21 February, 201313 yr by shane_saintsfc

Ah the waste of money argument.

So someone who doesn't use them will wear out 2 sets of summer tyres in the time I wear out one set of each, with the winters actually being 20% cheaper.

I don't suggest everyone needs them. Don't get them, that's fine. Just don't block the road or slide into me.

I just find it insane that its perfectly legal to go out in the snow with summer tyres on 1.6mm of tread.

As I travel all over the country on business they make a great deal of sense for me, granted we have only had those few days down here on the South Coast, but I have the confidence that the tire compound that I have on the car at the moment is optimized for the Winter temperatures.

Thread is still going well.

Ahh the winter tyre discussion.

I am from Hampshire and we had 3 days of snow. Really not going to fork out 600 odd quid just for a few days of snow.

"But you can drive better in cold conditions" I hear you say? I have driven in cold conditions in summer tyres for 7 years with no issues.

A complete waste of money unless you live halfway up a Scottish mountain.

On a side note, when it did snow I still drove 50 miles in those 3 days again with no problems.

The winter tyre discussion has been exhausted many times on here. There are the obvious two camps of thought on them. But you appear to think 'winter tyres' are 'snow tyres', the clue is in the name. They would allow you in winter months especially in rain and sub 7Deg C temps to have greater grip which could ultimately help you stop, perhaps just in time to not hit a child that runs out between cars on a cold damp day etc etc. Their purpose is not to drive in Antarctic conditions and merely not get stuck there with your wheels spinning, causing an inconvenience to you and others. Regardless of how people argue it, it is their own choice (for now) but winter compounds are the most appropriate for the winter in the UK and summer for the summer. They are far from "a complete waste of money" (as pointed out in long run can cost less). In a perfect world there would be a tyre that gave the best in all conditions but it has not happened yet.

Using a mobile phone while driving - Few would argue it isn't dangerous after being educated and the law was changed.

Drink driving - It took a long time but it became illegal and eventually totally socially unacceptable.

Winter tyres - It is going to happen sooner or later and for good reason.

On topic again, It has snowed here all day on dry sub 0 ground temp and nothing has stayed woohoo

For me this covers it.

IAM chief examiner Peter Rodger said: "With extremes of cold weather being unusual here, and the UK government showing no signs of making winter tyres compulsory, there is no obligation to invest in them. Nevertheless, a set of winter tyres could be a sensible option for some UK motorists, for example those who live at high altitude or in remote areas. For the rest of us, whether the cost is justified depends on individual circumstances such as annual mileage and whether you have the option to avoid driving in extreme conditions

For me this covers it.

IAM chief examiner Peter Rodger said: "With extremes of cold weather being unusual here, and the UK government showing no signs of making winter tyres compulsory, there is no obligation to invest in them. Nevertheless, a set of winter tyres could be a sensible option for some UK motorists, for example those who live at high altitude or in remote areas. For the rest of us, whether the cost is justified depends on individual circumstances such as annual mileage and whether you have the option to avoid driving in extreme conditions

He is confusing Snow tyres with Winter tyres as well

But it is a step in the right direction. At least he is making people aware they exist. The media keeps pretending there is nothing we can do about it every time they show pileups and lines of stuck cars in the news.

No I think he is talking about winters not snow tyres.

From tha IAM website

In countries where severe winters are guaranteed, it is quite normal for drivers to switch to winter tyres. This is becoming more common in the UK because of harsh winters over the last two years.

Winter tyres have a different tread pattern to give better grip on snow and ice and have a snowflake on a mountain as a symbol on the sidewall. The symbol indicates that they use winter grade rubber which stays flexible and maintains grip to well below freezing. The rubber used on standard tyres hardens as the temperature drops.

Winter tyres are not suitable for all year round regular tyres give better performance when temperatures are higher and roads dry but they do make sense for drivers living in more remote areas where winter conditions are likely to be more severe for longer or for those who feel they have to travel no matter what the weather.

An alternative to changing tyres is to carry snow chains or snow socks to fit when the snow gets deep. Snow socks are made of a strong fabric which grips snow they stretch to fit over the tyre.

Either of these can be used with standard tyres and they fit quite easily into a corner of the boot, or garage in summer.

IAM chief examiner Peter Rodger said: The weather we experience in the UK is nowhere near as severe as many other countries, but with the past two winters having been particularly bad, motorists in the hardest-hit areas may feel reassured to have the extra grip winter tyres afford.

But weigh up the expense. A full set will cost 400 - 500, and most drivers wont detect any significant difference in grip until the temperature is freezing. Most importantly, if conditions are really treacherous you should just consider postponing the journey and staying at home. Even if the mercury drops to below zero, safe and sensible driving will mean you shouldnt have any cause for emergency stops, and so little need to test your tyres to their limits.

Whatever tyres are fitted, regular checks of tread depth and pressure are even more important in winter. Performance in snow, ice or sub-zero conditions will reduce significantly if the tread depth falls below 3mm. Pressure should be checked with the tyres cold that means they should have been driven no more than a mile.

Do not be tempted to reduce pressure to increase grip. Tyres with low pressure do not have any more grip and are prone to overheating and blowouts

As I've said in another thread - the UK, in my opinion is not dry enough to warrant "summer" tyres on most every day cars.

If you own a sporty car or something with a bit of go, then great. Otherwise, I run winter tyres on both mine and my wifes car. She does 3K a year - it just does not make sense to swap over to summers. It's a 1.6 Diesel Focus at the end of the day.

I've found that the Winter tyres even on my car are wearing at pretty much the same rate as premium summer tyres that I used to have and I know that no matter what the weather - I am covered. We live in a country with amazingly unpredictable weather - I remember fondly Snow in April a few years ago. I didn't have winters at the time, but I'll never put summer ones on a car again - unless of course I end up with a vRS or something that would benefit from better rubber in the better weather.

Even if I had a car like that and it didn't get used - I could always get the wife to bring me to work in her car! (The joys of shift working)

Edited 21 February, 201313 yr by g_tee

It's commercial vehicles on summer tyres that cause the problems that result in blocked roads. For private car users there is always the choice to stay at home, if not then winters make sense in so many ways. Using cost as an objection is akin to arguing that insurance isn't required, and the mot pointless. Technically, tenuous; morally, and not a chance.

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That soft, flobbery siped rubber that grips on snow and ice is just TOO soft and flobbery for dry asphalt. Proper summer tires will have way more grip.

Then again I would think that american "all-season" would be a good fit for UK weather?