I've kept quiet on this thread but I've been reading it regularly. Winter tyres are not a magic solution to bad weather conditions - driving to the conditions is. I get extremely worried by people that post that now they have winter tyres fitted they can continue to drive in the same style & speeds as they would in the middle of summer - it does not matter what tyres you have fitted to your vehicle - it will not grip on slick ice (studded tyres are illegal in the UK before anyone tries that argument). Winter tyres may well grip better in some winter conditions than summers - but - it is not a substitute for correct driving skills or ability.

I think that Metblackrat is getting some unfair stick as well, he has simply tried to make the case that most of the emergency services do not fit winter tyres to their vehicles and that driving to the conditions is usually the key to safe progress - hence the remark of still being able to drive on an emergency response, in a powerful rear wheel drive car, while the temp is under 4c and not spin off the road and crash horrifically!

Glass Back - police cars do crash, as do Ambulances & Fire service vehicles. They are also driven at greater speeds, distances and conditions than the majority of private vehicles. I am sure that there would be figures available somewhere to state exactly how many, but to counter your argument, just how many private vehicles are crashed daily, whether on winters/summers at speed or slowly, in good or bad weather?

For that majority of people, they will have to put up with one set of tyres for the whole year - cost/space etc are all considerations. In fact, for normal winter conditions, summer tyres are still quite ample - it is generally in snow/slush that they really struggle and that is because of the design of the tread pattern. The All Terrain tyres fitted to my Land Rover have the grooves across the tyre, most car tyres run all the way around.

bobby_vimto - your remark about the "driver" in the £40k Evoque is another case of poor or non existant driver skills. There will be settings etc for snow/slush in that vehicle, and yet the driver expects to be able to drive as normal and then wonders why their vehicle is going no where. The best vehicle with the best tyres & driver aides in the world will still get stuck if driven with no skill or consideration for whatever adverse conditions it is in.

I am not saying that winter tyres are no good, but very much like the petrol/diesel argument, it is personal choice. For some it is worth it, for others it is an expense that is not.

I don't agree sorry, it's not a simple lifestyle choice. A winter tyre grips better in cold conditions than a summer tyre, let's take that as fact, as science. What you are confusing is the inconsistent human element. A poor driver on winters is possibly more dangerous than a good driver on summers (in cold weather). The key message is that drivers of all levels will benefit from more grip in cold conditions. I agree with part of your sentiment which is the belief that winter tyres perform like summers on a warm June afternoon, frankly anyone who really believes this shouldn't be allowed to wear lace up shoes, let alone drive. Logically, we should all use winter tyres, but logic and driving are often mutually exclusive.

I don't agree sorry, it's not a simple lifestyle choice. A winter tyre grips better in cold conditions than a summer tyre, let's take that as fact, as science. What you are confusing is the inconsistent human element. A poor driver on winters is possibly more dangerous than a good driver on summers (in cold weather). The key message is that drivers of all levels will benefit from more grip in cold conditions. I agree with part of your sentiment which is the belief that winter tyres perform like summers on a warm June afternoon, frankly anyone who really believes this shouldn't be allowed to wear lace up shoes, let alone drive. Logically, we should all use winter tyres, but logic and driving are often mutually exclusive.

Exactly. I can't believe some people say they provide no benefit. Its provable, testable scientific fact that they provide increased levels of grip on snow and ice.

However, I very much agree that they do not allow you to race around like it was warm and dry, which is why I can see that some in the emergency services might not see where their strength lies. I'll come clean, the first time I ever used winters on snow my experience was 'woo, I have winter tyres, Im invinci-OMFG IM GOING SIDEWAYS!!!!!' Then having adjusted my enthusiasm down a notch, I found I really could go up or down any road with no spinning wheels or sliding, no matter how snowy, as long as I drove sensibly. I was never stuck again in my life, or scared by a hill.

I have got off my estate each day with no wheel spin, not like 2 years ago. I don't need to convince anybody apart from myself. Conti winters work and that's good enough for me. If you don't need them that's also fine.

What I actually said, is that in the majority of conditions, there will be very little difference between winters or summers. I did state that in snow/slush then I would expect winter tyres to far outperform summers for grip.

I did not say that winters were a waste of money. I stated that for many, it is an expense that they can not afford. I also said that they are not a replacement for driving skills and common sense - both of which will get you through a lot of bad winter road conditions.

Glass Back - I am sure that Metblackrat would not have driven at the speeds he stated unless there was a genuine reason for it and he deemed it safe enough to do so under the prevalent conditions. Any drive is a matter of continually assessing the situation - a response drive even more so.

And why do I need to downgrade to smaller profile steel wheels - if winter tyres are so great, why can't I get a set to fit my existing alloys at the correct speed rating so that my insurance company doesn't have an absolute fit and conclude that this is a max power modification and therefore an extra £200 onto my premium (even though it would technically make the car safer in poor driving conditions). All in all, the UK isn't set up to make this an easy choice therefore most drivers will continue to use the one set all year round.

My winters are the same size as my summers, on identical OE alloys I bought from Ebay. Lower speed rating though, V or W winters are £££ and hard to find. . My insurance co are not bothered.

Some interesting comments from Matt Becker here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=108&i=26998

I didnt manage to get winter tyres sorted intime for the cold white horrible stuff (had the car 1 month)

I wasnt sure about them tbh but a mate at the dealer ship showed me a video and tbh... u cant argue with the facts

wasnt sure where to buy them but think ill use http://www.mytyres.co.uk/ as i can get a set of steels with them so i can change them over myself when needed

Edited 24 January, 201313 yr by Craigt191

Glass Back - I am sure that Metblackrat would not have driven at the speeds he stated unless there was a genuine reason for it and he deemed it safe enough to do so under the prevalent conditions. Any drive is a matter of continually assessing the situation - a response drive even more so.

It doesn't matter what the reason. In the weather the whole country has seen this week nothing can justify travelling in excess of 100mph on at best wet cold roads. As you quite rightly state a response drive requires even more concentration and is also mentally demanding, travelling at those speeds in bad weather makes it even harder. One wrong move from anyone. Other members of the public included and the result is carnage. All because someone was travelling too fast for the conditions. He may be more than capable. However as we all know others are not. people for reasons unknown panic and do the most weird manoeuvres when a police car approaches, which combined with a 530 BMW bearing down on you at over 100 is carnage waiting to happen especially during the day when the road is busy. I'm sure his driver training would have told him to drive to the conditions.

I have got off my estate each day with no wheel spin, not like 2 years ago. I don't need to convince anybody apart from myself. Conti winters work and that's good enough for me. If you don't need them that's also fine.

Couldn't agree more. If they work for you go with it. If they don't then don't

Pistonheads go to Lotus for a play in the snow (on winter tyres);

http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=108&i=26998

"Now, those who reckon winter tyres aren’t worth it should probably stop reading now. Both these cars are on winter rubber, and we ask Matt what would happen if they weren’t. “We wouldn’t have got here,” he says, indicating the 500 yards from the pitlane. And on the track itself? “You wouldn’t be able to move. You can’t stop, and you can’t accelerate.”

He’s a big advocate of performance winter tyres, and not just in snow, either. He does add they don’t have the same sharpness or the steering feel of the equivalent summer tyres. But regardless, his view is that "everybody should put their car on winter tyres."

C'mon everybody lets get real. There is a wealth of evidence out there that cold weather tyres as I believe they should be called are much safer than summers at less than 45 degrees F.

No one can deny this fact as proven in innumerable test by all sorts of motoring magazines and motor authorities.

I can understand the argument that goes - I live in Eastbourne and we get two days of frost most years so on balance of probability I can't be done with the cost and inconvenience of switching tyres twice a year. The same remarks go for our cobbers in Sydney Australia!

I can also understand the argument that goes I have no money and can't afford cold weather tyres in my list of priorities.

If however you travel thousands of miles a year on business and lots of that north of Nottingham, I would have thought the use of cold weathers is very high in your list of priorities no matter what car you drive.

I am in the fortunate position of not having to travel unless it suits me but my new Nokian WR D3s have not missed a beat if taken carefully on the 6 inches of snow, ice and slush in my little cul de sac where others have needed shovels to get going.

Don’t be daft Tom…. you’re now trying to use facts to win the argument.

You cannot educated stupid, the only chance you have is those that are just unsure about their benefits.

I've been following this thread with interest for a while. I live in Sweden (in the very south) wich I believe have similar weather as much of UK, a few weeks of snow, ice and slush each winter, but mostly wet.

Over here the debate isn't wether you should have snow tyres or not, it's required by law, it's wether or not you should have studded snow tyres. (I've realised that studs are illegal in the UK)

Politicans don't want them as they eat up the road in dry weather and produce dust particles that are potentialy dangerous to breathe. They've even made it illegal to use studs in some streets in Stockholm, but the "experts", e.g. motor journalists and scientists, mostly agree that they're far superior to unstudded.

If I were involved in an accident in snowy weather with summer tyres, my insurance deductible (?) would multiply and legally it would be much worse if I were deemed responsible.

I've been driving on snow and ice on summer tyres a few times when I haven't had the time or money to change, and I find it really scary no matter how slow and responibly I'm driving.

And I don't buy the argument that it's a personal choice and all about driving skills, since it's not only you're own life you put on the line. It could be me out driving with my pregnant girlfriend you crash in to when you hit that treacherous icy spot and lose control of your car because you have tyres that aren't up for the job.

Personally I find it disrespectful to be out driving on summer tyres in winter conditions.

Sorry if I'm being too dramatic But I find it to be a serious matter and I can't believe it's not a legal requirement in the UK, and that som insurence companies would even charge you more if you put them on...

Im a long term motorcycle rider... powerfull sportbikes etc.. everybody i know and ride with and infact most motorcyclists u talk to are very aware of the pitfalls involved with cold tyres, when there cold...they dont work very well, if atall. Granted that my 180bhp 1000cc sportbikes is fited with a much higher standard of rubber than your average family runaround, its a choice motorcylists make.. "most" will always fit very good tyres.

And that for me is what it comes down to, at the end of the day its a choice, but unfortunetly its a choice most will not make. Allas next year if the road surface does go to **** and i manage to stop in my winter boots... chances are the person behind who will probably drive up my arse will do so because he/she isnt on winter boots.

So its alittle redundant tbh, as a friend of mine who runs winter tyres on his land rover defender this time of year said "my winter tyres are great... they allow me to sit stationary with great grip and control.....behind 5 miles of cars, vans and busses who are stuck and spinning there tyres.

lol i see his point but he also says that due to the obvious benefits he would be without them, i have to agree... personally

Edited 24 January, 201313 yr by Craigt191

It could be me out driving with my pregnant girlfriend you crash in to when you hit that treacherous icy spot and lose control of your car because you have tyres that aren't up for the job.

Winter tyres are going to do very little on ice..

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Winter tyres are going to do very little on ice..

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post 159, video showing winter tyres (not snow tyres) on a seat ibiza tested on ice/snow, not just a cold road.

They work on ice

Edited 24 January, 201313 yr by Craigt191

Winter tyres are going to do very little on ice..

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Do you really believe that?

have you seen any of the youtube clips on an ice ring?

Winter tyres are going to do very little on ice..

Not my experience. My driveway has been solid ice for a few days as I never cleared any snow off it and two cars have been going up and down it compressing it down. Have yet to have a wheel slip, even going up with the FWD car.

But it seems nothing will convince you.

post 159, video showing winter tyres (not snow tyres) on a seat ibiza tested on ice/snow, not just a cold road.

They work on ice

Do you really believe that?

have you seen any of the youtube clips on an ice ring?

Not my experience. My driveway has been solid ice for a few days as I never cleared any snow off it and two cars have been going up and down it compressing it down. Have yet to have a wheel slip, even going up with the FWD car.

But it seems nothing will convince you.

I have had winter tyres before, and it did very little on sheet ice.

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Not true again Grant

Youve made it very clear that you dont see the need for them.

OK..Fine dont use them

But what you should realise that myself and others, who have them, know how good they are in ALL winter conditions

That even includes ice

Not true again Grant

Youve made it very clear that you dont see the need for them.

OK..Fine dont use them

But what you should realise that myself and others, who have them, know how good they are in ALL winter conditions

That even includes ice

I didn't say I don't see the need for them, I don't agree with the expense of having them. And clearly it is true since its from experience.

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It doesn't matter what the reason. In the weather the whole country has seen this week nothing can justify travelling in excess of 100mph on at best wet cold roads. As you quite rightly state a response drive requires even more concentration and is also mentally demanding, travelling at those speeds in bad weather makes it even harder. One wrong move from anyone. Other members of the public included and the result is carnage. All because someone was travelling too fast for the conditions. He may be more than capable. However as we all know others are not. people for reasons unknown panic and do the most weird manoeuvres when a police car approaches, which combined with a 530 BMW bearing down on you at over 100 is carnage waiting to happen especially during the day when the road is busy. I'm sure his driver training would have told him to drive to the conditions.

Unless I'm mistaken, metblackrat is one and the same. That was his argument: I'm well trained so don't need them, ergo spend your money on training. If you cold only afford onr or the other, then there is an argument that training will help you all year round in all conditions, as opposed to a couple of months a year.

I'm a fan of winter tyres and training, but then I'm lucky enough to be able to afford both, though I've yet to see any real benefit though in anything above freezing, but that could be because the Uniroyals just aren't that great.

Ultimately, I guess if you are good enough, you'll know when not to even try.

I have had winter tyres before, and it did very little on sheet ice.

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I live at the bottom of a cul de sac and although my road only has a very slight incline, everyone turns around down the bottom polishing the surface into a sheet of ice, it is so slippy that you can hardly stand up, yet neither of our cars (both on winters) get any wheelspin whatsoever, yet both of the neighbours struggle to get up the road.

So that means I must be a driving god then here was me putting it all down to the tyres.

Not all winter tyres are equal however, so maybe you had crap ones if you thought there was no difference on sheet ice?

I live at the bottom of a cul de sac and although my road only has a very slight incline, everyone turns around down the bottom polishing the surface into a sheet of ice, it is so slippy that you can hardly stand up, yet neither of our cars (both on winters) get any wheelspin whatsoever, yet both of the neighbours struggle to get up the road.

So that means I must be a driving god then here was me putting it all down to the tyres.

Not all winter tyres are equal however, so maybe you had crap ones if you thought there was no difference on sheet ice?

Quite possibly mate, yes.

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I didn't say I don't see the need for them, I don't agree with the expense of having them. And clearly it is true since its from experience.

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My Alloys were £100 from eBay ...Tyres £46 each from Camskill

They are on the car for the third winter now..November to mid March..still showing only negligable wear (bought in September 2010)

My summer wheels and tyres are put away for 4 months..saving more money on wear

So where is the expence?