Getting pretty fed up with this car.....

[alex_e3]

Hi all,

I know this topic has come up before, but I'm really at my wits end at the minute trying to find out how to cure this car of it's only real problem..... the constant pull to the left.

A bit of background first:

I bought the car off my Dad at 62k miles. When my Dad had it, it had a very very small pull to the left, as if just with the camber of the road. This was with both the Continentals on, and with cheap ****e tyres that he bought later. This was from 28k miles when he bought it. After buying it I put 17" Octavia Spiders on the car, running Falken 912's. The car instantly drove miles better and did not pull at all.

A year later I split with the ex and thought I'd have to sell the car, so I sold the Spiders and reverted to standard. The car immediately started pulling again, but was slightly worse this time. Since then I've had 2 different brands of tyres put on the front to see if it made a difference - none what-so-ever. The second time (and most recent) I bought Uniroyal Rainsports.

When I set the car up on JOM coilovers, it made a massive difference to the pulling and instantly made it a LOT worse. So much so that I regard it as being quite dangerous. If I let go of the steering wheel at 70mph, the car would be off the road in 2/3 seconds without my interference. This is obviously unacceptable and not good.

Before I changed the tyres the second time for Uniroyals, I had a massive bulge on the tyre (as posted on here), and had to put the brand new spare on the o/s complete with Continental tyre. The car then started to mildly pull in the opposite direction. When they fitted the tyres, I asked them to swap the front wheels left to right. Still it pulled to the left....

Now, the latest as of today, is that I have had all 4 wishbone bearings replaced and uprated with Superpro. The console bushes have been replaced with the anti-lift ones. The car has been re-tracked. I've just got home from picking it up, and it STILL pulls massively to the left. I thought that the bushes would be the cause of these problems, as they were absolutely knackered. It's much more violent and severe when I accelerate harshly.

Can anyone offer any suggestions as to why this is happening? It drove perfect with the 17's on running Falken's. It's driving me round the twist. The bushes needed doing anyway, but it still doesn't make me any less mad. The car is awesome and this just ruins the whole thing for me :-(

I'd almost think it'd be a good idea to try it on 17's again (I've got my eye on a set that I can't afford for a few months), but I'm worried about spending that sort of money and then finding I'm still lumbered with the same issue.

HELP!!!

[Holmesie]

have you jacked the car up and checked the front wheels for play? may be a damaged track rod ball joint etc ....

do the tyres wear evenly ?

and by re tracked .... was it a 4 wheel alignment?

did they check camber and castor? both could be way out with the car being lowered

do both the front wheels look to be spaced the same in the arches? its possible catching a kerb / pot hole could have knocked a wheel backward...... measure the gap at front and rear of front wheels e.g fit 2 fingers between wheel and sil on both sides?

[whoosh]

I know this doesn't help but I've noticed when I put my 16" standard alloys back on for the winter it has started to pull a little to the left and I can't remember it doing this with my Audi tt 17" summer alloys.

Looking forward to replies and the summer.

Hope someone can help you it's no fun when your unhappy with your car

Regards Whoosh

[Chr15py]

I would get it into a garage and have them check the suspension components. I'm pretty sure something's bent. You said you've changed the tyres many times - how do the tyres wear - even?

Chris

[Big deano]

Mine does exactly the same I'm ****ed off aswell as its gone from being a newssense to down right dangerous Mines lowered also tyres look ok

[JLneonhug]

When downsized back to 16s I found they do become more sensitive to road variations and natural car wanting to pull to the left. When wot it torque steers more and in corners, camber sensation is increased.

I would suspect the tracking you done was off. Did you do the proper full alignment check which costs normally £100 odd? As said above they check and adjust caster, toe and things.

There is also a rear wheels adjustment (using shims) which iirc sorts out the pulling to the left 'problem'.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

[alex_e3]

To be honest I've looked after the car pretty meticulously - it hasn't wanted for anything. All the wheels have even spacing, the components have no real signs of wear either.

The effect was massively increased when I lowered the car. Now when it comes on boost it literally wants to rip the wheel out of my hands.

As for tracking, I had it 4 wheel aligned using the best laser system in the area. They had a printout on screen and nothing was much out at all - nothing that should be causing this effect apparently.

What I find strange is that it drove perfectly straight with 17's on in the past. Plus when I out the spare on the RHS it drove straight again, even when under hard acceleration (& when lowered). That's the thing that really makes me curious as to what's going on, as it obviously has the potential to drive straight with the current setup....

I might add that it's got worse with these bushes installed correctly. I was expecting the opposite seeing as they're meant to increase straight like stability!

[Holmesie]

""As for tracking, I had it 4 wheel aligned using the best laser system in the area. They had a printout on screen and nothing was much out at all - nothing that should be causing this effect apparently.""

did you see it been done? it has been known for mechanics to lean on on the lasers to fool the computer system in to believing the vehicles tracking is within manufacters tolerances. .... Generally just an excuse for them not to do anything

[Guest BigJase88]

All VAG cars do this. Everyone ive ever owned does this

Its something to do with a rear axle alignment and being set up for driving on the continent

[alex_e3]

I watched him throughout the whole process. He definitely didn't do anything untoward, & I saw the results on screen when he did it.

Seems odd how some of these do it and some don't.

I think it's either the tyre selection, or the larger rims in my opinion.

Pretty ****ed off about it right now to be honest, after just spending the best part of £400 on the car....

[alex_e3]

Oh and forgot to put.... tyres wear completely evenly....

[Big deano]

I think now to me it's becoming pretty clear that this opinion that vag cars are bullit proof never go wrong and are sound is total ****e as I really like me Fabia but even I've got to admit I've never owned a car ( 36 in total now) that has so many problems and mini faults little niggles as this. ( the worsed reliable 6 scoobies, skyline and a rover coupe turbo rover was px don't ask lol) and they rang like clockwork no issues what so ever even my fiat coupe 20v turbo was running close to 400bhp and never skipped a beat???

Agreed little things like this can wear u down to the bone more than big issues as they cost a bomb and are stupidly hard to find

[vRSAnt]

As a fair point of comparison, my car has never been modified, and the only issues I have seen are very minor niggles that only the most pedantic would get in any kind of fret about (e.g. the egr hesitation, the electrical issue with the alternator cable). No drastic pulling to the left, if I've ever had any minor pulling its been sorted with alignment.

Actually the idea that the car is practically bomb proof for me at least, has come in reasonably true for my last two cars. This one new and now 100K, 6yrs.

Comes with the territory surely once you start modifying, and you can't assume the same from doing that with every car, and any issues you get is caveat emptor. Plus its a second hand car. I've owned mine from new and can account for almost every single mile driven in it.

Just a fair and open counter opinion. I would say its far from total ****e, just for whatever circumstances and parameters in your case including suspension modifications lead to a different result from one like mine.

Rather than replacing one part at a time hoping to hit on the cause of an issue it would be probably cheaper to take it to take it to a suspension specialist for an overhaul

I'd personally just go to Unit 18 and ask them to set it all up and replace anything looking worn - stupid to just have everything apart and back together replacing one part at a time when the whole lot could be worn and labour factors heavily in the cost.

If it was me though I'd give up with the coilovers (never fitted them to my car anyway) and just put lowered springs on and see if that helped. Easy enough to fit yourself

[redcupraboy]

As said it's a natural trait of the car. However I'm sure iv read on here about somebody using some EZ shims to correct it and cure it.

Sorry I can't remember the threads name or the the OP.

[alex_e3]

I think now to me it's becoming pretty clear that this opinion that vag cars are bullit proof never go wrong and are sound is total ****e as I really like me Fabia but even I've got to admit I've never owned a car ( 36 in total now) that has so many problems and mini faults little niggles as this. ( the worsed reliable 6 scoobies, skyline and a rover coupe turbo rover was px don't ask lol) and they rang like clockwork no issues what so ever even my fiat coupe 20v turbo was running close to 400bhp and never skipped a beat???

Agreed little things like this can wear u down to the bone more than big issues as they cost a bomb and are stupidly hard to find

Completely with you on this. I'm a big fan of old Renaults and have had 3 2 litre Clio's, which are meant to be known for issues. However, this car has cost me far more money in repairs than any other I've had before. I've had issues with the EGR, glow plugs, bushes, coolant bottle sensor, cam sensor, among others.... Hardly big issues I know, but these things do add up when you're paying a garage to do the work just so you can keep it with the history of the car. Plus I haven't even got to big things such as clutch/flywheel and turbo yet - I feel these are waiting around the corner waiting to pounce! I never paid anyone to do anything on my old Clio!

The thing is, I've spent a load of money on the car, and in it's current state (even though it looks mint) I reckon I'd struggle to sell it at all if I wanted to - I certainly wouldn't be buying it after test driving it....

As a fair point of comparison, my car has never been modified, and the only issues I have seen are very minor niggles that only the most pedantic would get in any kind of fret about (e.g. the egr hesitation, the electrical issue with the alternator cable). No drastic pulling to the left, if I've ever had any minor pulling its been sorted with alignment.

Actually the idea that the car is practically bomb proof for me at least, has come in reasonably true for my last two cars. This one new and now 100K, 6yrs.

Comes with the territory surely once you start modifying, and you can't assume the same from doing that with every car, and any issues you get is caveat emptor. Plus its a second hand car. I've owned mine from new and can account for almost every single mile driven in it.

Just a fair and open counter opinion. I would say its far from total ****e, just for whatever circumstances and parameters in your case including suspension modifications lead to a different result from one like mine.

Rather than replacing one part at a time hoping to hit on the cause of an issue it would be probably cheaper to take it to take it to a suspension specialist for an overhaul

I'd personally just go to Unit 18 and ask them to set it all up and replace anything looking worn - stupid to just have everything apart and back together replacing one part at a time when the whole lot could be worn and labour factors heavily in the cost.

If it was me though I'd give up with the coilovers (never fitted them to my car anyway) and just put lowered springs on and see if that helped. Easy enough to fit yourself

Whilst I do completely see where you're coming from, the car has always had a tiny tiny (and I mean tiny!) pull from 28k miles when I originally knew it. This pull has only got worse with time, and was getting quite annoying even when the car was completely standard. Just lowering seems to have compounded the effect drastically, and now these anti-lift bushes have done exactly the same.

As above, what I can't understand at all is how it drove perfect (and I mean perfect!) when I fitted 17's to it - & close to perfect when the spare wheel was fitted to the o/s..... To me, surely if the car had alignment issues then this wouldn't sort the problem?

I'm off to get it re-aligned once again in a bit at the same place, as the guys who 'tracked' it after fitting these bushes didn't have a good laser system like this one. I will re-update later once I know. However, I'm fairly sure they will tell me it's aligned fine. I will try to get a printout to post on here so those in the know can comment!

Thanks all for your comments. Sort of re-assuring to feel I'm not on my own in this problem!

[alex_e3]

As said it's a natural trait of the car. However I'm sure iv read on here about somebody using some EZ shims to correct it and cure it.

Sorry I can't remember the threads name or the the OP.

Oh and cheers for this. Will try and find it later depending on the results of my alignment....

The damn thing is certainly not 'natural' at the minute! I mean it literally now wants to violently rip the wheel from my hand when it comes on boost!

[Kyle_vrs]

Mine also pulls to the left but on some roads to the right, I just put it down to the camber

[alex_e3]

Right, ok guys. Just had an alignment check done on the car by Buckley Tyres. Their system is the best in the area to my knowledge, and I've got a printout of the results. The toe was out quite a bit, so had that adjusted. The car now drives what it drove like before I had the bushes fitted yesterday - so it still pulls massively under acceleration (which I expected).

Basically, I talked to the guy and he asked me if it was pulling to the left. He said it's common on these cars, so obviously had experience with this before. He told me that he'd had a SE vRS in the other week with the same problem. He said that they spent ages shimming up the rear beam until it was well within tolerance, and he said that the car still pulled. He then said that the guy swapped the wheels left to right and the car drove perfect! I explained to him what I'd changed and what I'd tried before, and we then checked the alignment on mine. Apart from the toe being out - obviously because of the bushes being fitted yesterday, he said that my rear beam was much better aligned than the guy with the SE. He said the slight camber variance should actually cause it to run slightly to the right, hence for our roads. He said there's nothing on there that should cause what I'm seeing.

He suggested swapping the wheels over with these directional Uniroyals, as it may be the directional tyres causing the problem. I was thinking this may be the issue as well, because the Falken's I previously ran were asymmetrical. So if I've got time today I will pop down to my unit and swap them over to see if there's a difference.

Here's the results anyhow...

Big shout out to the guys at Buckley Tyres - top guys there and Dave was really helpful and knowledgable on the matter.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Mines done 167,000 miles, is running near double the stock power and I'v had next to no issues. Had pulling to the left issues but bushes and alignment at unit 18 sorted that. I get it checked and adjusted yearly too.

If its pulling so badly I don't see how whoever is doing your alignment is getting it to read correctly!

[badgelock]

Ever jacked off the rear beam? They're made of cheese and bend far too easily, also a sloppy or bent steering arm wouldn't show up when tracked, as it's done with wheels straight. Try getting it string boxed, most race car tuners/preppers will do it cheap for you. Is it pulling all the time? Or only when under load?

[AP Automotive]

I have seen this before on other cars, a slight tweak of the toe should sort it.

Many alignment guys just see the green measurements & say its fine nothing wrong with it.

You have to read the measurements. I have done BMW's where there is a complaint off pulling to the left, all before measurements show green, but instead of just giving it back to customer because it was all in the green, I made the correct adjustments which made the drive so much better.

Hopefully your new settings should improve your drive

[alex_e3]

Ever jacked off the rear beam? They're made of cheese and bend far too easily, also a sloppy or bent steering arm wouldn't show up when tracked, as it's done with wheels straight. Try getting it string boxed, most race car tuners/preppers will do it cheap for you. Is it pulling all the time? Or only when under load?

Yes I've jacked it up off the rear beam before. The alignment results don't show the rear beam to be a problem though....

I haven't a clue what string boxed is!?!!!

It pulls only when accelerating. If I let off the throttle, it drives pretty much spot on. The more throttle I press, the more it pulls. Hence why when I give it a bootfull it just tries to completely bugger off to the left....

I have seen this before on other cars, a slight tweak of the toe should sort it.

Many alignment guys just see the green measurements & say its fine nothing wrong with it.

You have to read the measurements. I have done BMW's where there is a complaint off pulling to the left, all before measurements show green, but instead of just giving it back to customer because it was all in the green, I made the correct adjustments which made the drive so much better.

Hopefully your new settings should improve your drive

From your experience Ant, what would you make of the result I've got from my alignment? Any ideas why would fitting my spare wheel (same size, different tyre) cause the car to suddenly drive straight, even under hard acceleration? This is why I'm thinking tyres....

UPDATE

Was too busy last night, but I've switched the front left and right hand wheels around, so that they're running the wrong way directional wise. The car is now pulling even worse under acceleration, but still drives straight when completely off-throttle. It's worth pointing out that the rears are running a different brand of directional tyre, and I haven't yet switched those left to right.

How much would the rear potentially cause the car to pull?

I'm pretty disheartened at the moment, and I can't even be even remotely bothered to go messing around and switching tyres again today.

[Holmesie]

it is possible that it is the tyre tread good year did the eagle a few years ago this had a v shaped tread and was directional some cars handled well on them and others were near un drivable.

could you swap wheels with some one else and see if it makes a dif?

[AP Automotive]

How are the tyres? if the shoulders start to drop off this will cause pulling. Hence if your spare is brand new it will straighten things up. I assume all tyre pressure are spot on.

All cars vere left slightly when you release the steering wheel for safety reasons.

I have a standard VRS I can test this week, but from memory this vered off slightly, as per normal. But it didn't pull

[alex_e3]

it is possible that it is the tyre tread good year did the eagle a few years ago this had a v shaped tread and was directional some cars handled well on them and others were near un drivable.

could you swap wheels with some one else and see if it makes a dif?

This is what I'm thinking to be honest. Most other things that could possibly affect this have been changed. Why the car is so sensitive to tyre choice though I don't understand....

I agree that trying some different alloys would be ideal. However, finding someone who's willing is another matter!

How are the tyres? if the shoulders start to drop off this will cause pulling. Hence if your spare is brand new it will straighten things up. I assume all tyre pressure are spot on.

All cars vere left slightly when you release the steering wheel for safety reasons.

I have a standard VRS I can test this week, but from memory this vered off slightly, as per normal. But it didn't pull

Tyres are fine mate. I've never had uneven tyre wear for as long as I've known the car. Pressures are monitored weekly also.

Your previous post mentioned about corrective alignment. Could you recommend anyone that could do this locally? I'm a bit sceptical at the minute that it is alignment, due to how the car handled with a) the spare on, and 17" Spiders on...

UPDATE:

Last night I changed the rears over after work. So now both the front and rear are running their directional tyres the wrong way. Changing the rear has had to real effect - made it slightly worse again.

I'll change the fronts back around tomorrow, as won't have time tonight. Then I'll try swapping the front to rear on the n/s only, then try the same with the o/s.

Endless wheel changing at the minute :-/