I do 30,000 miles a year which forced my hand into buying a diesel vRS.

If I was doing much less mileage I'd get a petrol and pocket the £1,500 - £2,000 difference in purchase price and go on holiday!

Price difference only really comes into play if youre buying one via HP or with cash.

On a solutions PCP over 3.5 years I found a factory spec'd CR was a bit cheaper to fund than the equivalent TSi over the period despite being the more expensive car; down to it having a considerably better residual value than the TSi.

With the Blackline it was exagerated further still and if my car hadnt been available I "may" have ended up with a TSi still. The BL was about 30/month cheaper than the TSi, being a bit of a steal combined with the lower tax banding and better fuel economy as much as I wanted a TSi I couldnt justify it.

I do however think that used the TSi is a total bloody warm hatch bargain and genuinely for the money I dont really know why someone would go and spend several K more on a Golf GTi....and thats coming from someone whos had 2 MK6 Golfs.

I'm simple so the way I finance my car is the same , and I also never buy new so I should have mentioned that the difference is more noticeable on older cars, mainly ones on Autotrader and eBay Motors etc.

A chunky deposit from my old car and a good old fashioned bank loan for the balance.

My experience suggests that paying with cash (in other words a debit card) rarely bags you a deal these days. HP, PCP's etc. are all more expensive in the long run so the main dealers are incentivised to sell them.

Edited 27 February, 201313 yr by silver1011

thats just fact mate. Paying cash will never get you any kind of deal unless you are buying a 2nd hand car privately and even then it wont do that mcuh.

Totally fair enough Silver1011 We all do things our own way; my outlook is if it appreciates buy it; if it depreciates lease it. I rarely keep my own car any longer than 2-3 years so dont see the sense in laying down a load of capital in something for it to dwindle away...can live with a small deposit and known monthly outgoing though.

Buying a car to keep more or less indefinitely is a different story though

Edited 27 February, 201313 yr by pipsyp

The non-franchised dealer I bought my vRS from wasn't actually interested in offering me finance, I got the impression he saw it as more of a chore than a way to make more money.

Yet despite this he was still willing to negotiate on the screen price. This was made simpler without the added complication of finance options or a part-ex etc.

My original comment about the price difference between the petrol and diesel vRS is based on observations of used prices.

I would seriously consider a PCP as the idea of paying a little extra for a new car every few years without the worry of being out of warranty etc. and never actually owning the car wouldn't bother me.

What scuppers the idea for me is the mileage I do. 30K a year results in a huge jump in the monthly price. I've yet to find an advertised example with a mileage above 10K.

Anyway, without turning this into a 'how to buy it' thread I'd happily run either a petrol or a diesel vRS, it is my mileage that dicates which one is best for me.

one thing i must say is people keep on about saying you need to be doing huge miles to warrant a diesel.

IME this complete rubbish. I dont do massive miles and my derv is still working out much cheaper than my previous car which did the same mpg average as people are saying they get from the tsi

It does come down to annual milage depending on various variables, such as relative pump price differences, initial cheaper cost of the Tsi engines and mpg. There are various online calculators you can use to give you a rough idea of what is going to be the cheaper engine to run, and the last time I looked (couple of years ago though) the cut off was around 12/14k annual milage - any less (and I average between 8 and 10k) and petrol is the cheaper car to run even with lower mpg.

The other factor to consider is the particle filters on diesels which I believe have a tendency to malfunction (often expensively) if you are just doing lots of short runs round town that don't give them a chance to heat up and burn the crud (so regular m-way cruises are better), so add in the type of miles you are likely to do and not just the overall number.

The peak torque in the diesel is in a really narrow band and you see a lot of people getting confused over 'mid-range' 30-50 in 3rd as an example and using the diesels figures. However what they forget is that is not the petrols ideal gear, if I wanted 30-50 I would be in 2nd gear and then compare times. 50-70 in 5th is quoted as well, but for a performance measurement I wouldn't be in 5th but 4th !

I will post a video as an example of the significant performance advantage between the 2 engines the petrol has. Notice that on a few occasions he gives over a 1s start to the diesel and on another it's about 3 car lengths ! By the end of the straight the petrol is pulling significantly ahead by numerous lengths. As you see the petrol reels the diesel in even when behind and in the diesels so called 'mid range' bracket.

I would seriously consider a PCP as the idea of paying a little extra for a new car every few years without the worry of being out of warranty etc. and never actually owning the car wouldn't bother me.

What scuppers the idea for me is the mileage I do. 30K a year results in a huge jump in the monthly price. I've yet to find an advertised example with a mileage above 10K.

Anyway, without turning this into a 'how to buy it' thread I'd happily run either a petrol or a diesel vRS, it is my mileage that dicates which one is best for me.

Yeah sorry got a habit for going off on a tangent. Agree 30k a year you'd have to be mad or have plenty of disposable income to be running a TSi (or getting your business to fuel it of course).

Also agree PCP isnt so clean cut if your mileage is high, you can get away with doing a 10k/annum contract and going over the allowance by some sensible margin but 30k/year would make that difficult :-)

when people buy diesels they normaly want to save a bit of cash in fuel. The quick diesels can be quick and still keep good mpg, driving petrols fast dont. Also the GTI there is 200bhp where as the derv is 170 and it didnt exactly make it look silly did it?

Edited 27 February, 201313 yr by ryan-re

The peak torque in the diesel is in a really narrow band and you see a lot of people getting confused over 'mid-range' 30-50 in 3rd as an example and using the diesels figures. However what they forget is that is not the petrols ideal gear, if I wanted 30-50 I would be in 2nd gear and then compare times. 50-70 in 5th is quoted as well, but for a performance measurement I wouldn't be in 5th but 4th !

I will post a video as an example of the significant performance advantage between the 2 engines the petrol has. Notice that on a few occasions he gives over a 1s start to the diesel and on another it's about 3 car lengths ! By the end of the straight the petrol is pulling significantly ahead by numerous lengths. As you see the petrol reels the diesel in even when behind and in the diesels so called 'mid range' bracket.

Christ no disrespect Bullet but have we just watched the same video? Id expect there to be a reasonable performance advantage after all were talking 208hp vs 168; a 40hp disadvantage over the 30hp of the Octavias. Diesels are also not great off the mark they never are. Going by what I saw though the GTI didnt really at any point leave the GTD for dead, only perhaps 2 or 3 car lengths after the GTI had really got its legs.

Yes the GTI is clearly the faster of the pair but Id say here the GTDs lack of power was somewhat compensated by its higher torque output and in no way did it embarrass itself.

Edited 27 February, 201313 yr by pipsyp

Anyway we should digress guys; dont think the OP asked for a Diesel v Petrol peeing contest (not sure exactly how thay happened!) both are cracking cars just both are very different and what you choowe completely depends on your preferences what you prefer to drive.

one thing i must say is people keep on about saying you need to be doing huge miles to warrant a diesel.

IME this complete rubbish. I dont do massive miles and my derv is still working out much cheaper than my previous car which did the same mpg average as people are saying they get from the tsi

This is true.....even if you do 1000 miles per year the diesel will be cheaper to run (Fuel, tax and probably insurance). And if you buy a 5 year old vRS and do low mileage in it, the petrol version will probably cost you more than the diesel.....despite the lower purchase price, because deprecation is higher.

However the story is muddier if you are buying new or nearly new. You have to do the maths for your own particular circumstance.

Of course there are people, who would rather pay 20% more for a diesel variant regardless of the maths, because they want lower daily running costs.......after all that's what you tend to feel most in your pocket.

One thing struck me reading the posts following my original one is we don't know what age car the OP is looking for. If it's more than a few years old and he won't be doing many miles the TSI might work out a lot cheaper to buy initially as the TSI was cheaper to buy new, plus it'll have lost more so the price difference should be even greater than new. Obviously he'd have to take into consideration the increased running costs mpg/VED/insurance etc, but it's something else to consider. How about that then- a vote for the petrol from a deisel donkey ( In certain circumstances!)

Yep, we need to know age of car he is considering and annual mileage he does.

The TSI will undoubtedly work out cheaper to buy, but how much will he sell it for in a few years time in comparison to the diesel? Considerably less I suppose.

Perhaps this factor may completely cancel out the purchase price argument in a car that is a few years old.......but who knows!

........one thing is for sure.

When the OP checks back, he will be mighty impressed by the 2000 word (and growing) thesis we have all jointly written on the subject!......what a great forum this is.

Edited 27 February, 201313 yr by booke23

This is a question i asked myself a few months back when contemplating changing from my previous automobile - a Fabia mk II vrs tsi - this was a cracking little car but with my 18-20k a year millage was becoming increasingly costly to run.

So, looking at the Octy VRS i was originally intending to test drive and buy a petrol, however when asked my approx. millage i was asked if i had considered the diesel and if i would like to take one out for a test drive too. Having only ever really driven "slow" diesels in the past i really wasn't expecting too much from it but agreed all the same.

Once i got to the top of the road i took a left at the roundabout onto a road with the national speed limit imposed, so planted the foot through 2nd and 3rd gear. I was very impressed with the pull it had and just how responsive it was to the request for power, the only negative i could really see is what has been pointed out above - the short power band. The handling felt very nice and i liked the effortless actions to kick the engine up the bahook. So much so that after a little negotiating back at the garage i shook hands on it - it helped that i was quoted 30-35mpg for the petrol and 45-55mpg for the diesel.

I'll add that the majority of my mon-fri miles are long m'way drives, however i do give it a poke with a pointy stick at the weekends and still indicating 49.4mpg on average (nearer 45 when calculated by chalk and slate) All that said, as the first diesel ive owned i would highly recommend the machine, but again i suppose it will all come down to annual mileage and personal preference.

I went for the diesel after having a BMW 120d for the last year. That was the first diesel that I'd ever had and I was pleasantly surprised. Although I've had a lot of petrol cars with reasonable performance in the past, now I've got a young child I actually find a 'sporty' diesel suits me really well. I still get to have the occasional blast, but for the 90% of time that I've got the family in the car and am driving at 1.5k rpm there is still some shove if I need it! Having said that, I do also have two petrol cars to fall back on should I feel the need.

Hmmm, I'd say that the GTi trounced the GTD, but that's a subjective assessment of course (and explains why I personally wanted a petrol over a diesel).

One thing is for sure, if you get over excited with the petrol engine, you're going to see the dark side of mid 20s mpg. Unlikely your license or the car would live long enough for that to be a practical issue for the high annual mileage drivers. What would be interesting, is what would the real world mpg be if you drove both types at the same speeds.

From a depreciation point of view, buying a brand new petrol makes even less sense, only when you buy used where the starting value is already different due to the different depreciation levels. From the PCP deal I did, £500 = around £10 a month in monthly payment costs, and since the cheapest equivalent spec and age CR model that I could find was around £1500 more than mine, that was around £30 a month handicap that the increased FGMV had to offset.

I went for the diesel after having a BMW 120d for the last year. That was the first diesel that I'd ever had and I was pleasantly surprised. Although I've had a lot of petrol cars with reasonable performance in the past, now I've got a young child I actually find a 'sporty' diesel suits me really well. I still get to have the occasional blast, but for the 90% of time that I've got the family in the car and am driving at 1.5k rpm there is still some shove if I need it! Having said that, I do also have two petrol cars to fall back on should I feel the need.

This is where the Octy makes the most sense. The CR is an interesting but practical family hold all workhorse, so long as you have something more fun to hoof around with when the mood takes. Had I the space / cash / time etc to own two reasonably new cars, then I would have got the diesel for business trips, and something like an Alfa GTV for the rest of the time.

Christ no disrespect Bullet but have we just watched the same video? Id expect there to be a reasonable performance advantage after all were talking 208hp vs 168; a 40hp disadvantage over the 30hp of the Octavias. Diesels are also not great off the mark they never are. Going by what I saw though the GTI didnt really at any point leave the GTD for dead, only perhaps 2 or 3 car lengths after the GTI had really got its legs.

Yes the GTI is clearly the faster of the pair but Id say here the GTDs lack of power was somewhat compensated by its higher torque output and in no way did it embarrass itself.

I'm sorry it got trounced, take your black oily specs off ! Did you see how far ahead and pulling the petrol got in such a small distance? You talk about torque, the Gti gave the Gtd a start on occasion, this meant that the diesel was in its 'torque' band before the petrol but it still reeled it in !

As I've said before my last 5 cars were diesel inc a 225bhp (remapped/RRD) V6 Vectra that was lovely sounding and had torque ! You fellas look at 'mid range' figures from performance out of magazines, give me 30-50/50-70/30-70 whatever but let me choose 'my' gear in my petrol not the mandated must be in 3rd etc and a turbo petrol will say ciao bella every time ! And remember your peak diesel Torque lasts for a 'whole' 750rpm

I had to drive an Astra 150 CDTI yesterday (painful i know) for over 400 miles and that engine in the Astra will give a diesel Vrs a fright, but OMG when I got back in my car and it came on boost at just over 2k all the way to 6.5k with no drop off it put a bloomin massive smile on my face again.

I couldn't and wouldn't buy another diesel unless I was doing the mileage to seriously make the finances work. It's only the mileage that makes financial sense, the depreciation factor doesnt as its loaded at both ends and the 'new price' differential is always more than the 'trade in price' differential. So pay more at start but get a little bit less back than that at trade in, some people simply like the drive of diesel I agree,

Mate im sorry but thats bull; im not suggesting for a minute that the GTD is as fast as the GTI (and same obviously goes for the two vRS variants) but considering the GTI has another 40hp it wasnt a trouncing.

And in any case I had a Fabia vRS estate before my Blackline which was easily as fast as a standard vRS TSi Octy so i know very well what a TSi feels like vs a TDi.

Mate im sorry but thats bull; im not suggesting for a minute that the GTD is as fast as the GTI (and same obviously goes for the two vRS variants) but considering the GTI has another 40hp it wasnt a trouncing.

And in any case I had a Fabia vRS estate before my Blackline which was easily as fast as a standard vRS TSi Octy so i know very well what a TSi feels like vs a TDi.

A bit harsh, it's only subjective opinions remember!

It surely depends on a definition of "trouncing". There are at least two of us that feel (subective remember!) that the petrol version is significantly faster. The gaps you see there are greater than some of the comparisons that have been made between remapped TSIs and other makes. At the end of the day, all that matters is to you, the driver. If three car lengths is nowt, then you'd be a fool to buy the petrol, and vice versa!

Each to their own and you're right it is subjective. Clearly the petrol is quicker, but trounced is a matter of opinion. I've stepped up from a 150bhp CDTI 58 plate vectra and versus that car the power upgrade in the diesel VRS is a lot more than I'd expect a mere 20bhp would be. I'd suspect the diesel VRS may 'trounce' the vectra by a similar margin to the golf gti versus gtd. I can't comment on an Astra, but expect that to be lighter.

Some objective and some not so objective comments in here. Having recently owned petrol and diesel VRS octies here's what I know:

1) The diesel costs a little bit more at the start, and and holds slightly better at the end. Overall it might cost you an extra grand but give you £1500 to £2k more back, depending how new it is and how long you keep it. All in though we are probably only talking about £500 to £1k 'profit' over petrol depreciation.

2) The diesel doesn't return fantastic MPG (many will quote 50+mpg and insist that includes some 'spirited' driving but I don't believe it).*

3) The petrol returns quite a bit less. Again, many claim getting on to 40 but I suspect they have miss daisy in the back most of the time.*

4) The performance isn't vastly different. When thrashing it, you notice it, during your average commute you won't. There are some times when I could almost swear the derv is faster (even though I know it isn't).

* typical fuel consumption caclulated by road trip app over several thousand miles was as follows:

Long term average - derv 38 petrol 25

500+ mile runs - derv 46 petrol 32

10 mile commute - derv 34 petrol 23

Apart from that I have my 'are you happy with how many miles you got from a tank?' Gut feeling guide. The way this works is that as long as I got 300 miles out of a brimmed tank in the petrol or 400 miles out ofthe diesel, I thought I'd done ok. If I had a couple of tanks in a row that have me less than that I'd start to suspect a problem.

Edited 1 March, 201313 yr by mr_awol