Horner is a slimy git too. He always manages to dig himself out of a hole. If Webber was to leave I don't think there's anywhere he could go. Massa has come good lately so Ferrari's out.

Williams... I bet he could do a lot of good for them.

Lotus.... Grosjean isn't exactly Mr Popular

McLaren would probably have had him this year, shame really.

I'm sure any of the mid place teams would love to have him too.

Kimi with Mark! What a pairing and then some - imagine the parties!

Interesting point made in an article over the weekend about Christian Horner and his leadership.

Namely, Ross Brawn specifically told Rosberg to stay behind Hamilton, albeit he did it using suitable language and went out of his way to thank Rosberg at the end of the race. ( you could call this management).

Horner, on the oher hand, never gave Vettel a specific or clear instruction to stay behind. Their were just vague phrases coming from Red Bull such as "...this is getting silly Seb".

I think the whole episode has made Vettel even more unpopular ( he was booed on the podium at Melbourne) and undermined Horner. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

In other reports, Helmut Marko has said that Red Bull's owner Mateschitz is not happy with Vettel's move saying 'it will not happen again'. Press talk or genuine?

See I cant remember where I read it but I'm sure I read that Mateschitz liked Webber. Maybe it was just bull**** but who knows.

Regarding vettel v webber....

Webber will never be world champ,he just isnt good enough.if he was he would have done it by now - hes been there long enough

Remember last years title went to the final race.if vettel would have stayed behind webber then lost this years title by 5 points,what then?

Red bull should not have told him to stay second.

They should look after the guy whos given them 3 titles

And no,i dont like vettel much but you dont get to the top by being nice in any occupation imhe

But you do follow clear orders from your manager in almost every occupation...

All the rest is irrelevant

Team orders has been about for years. It amazes me that it's now a shock to some. Sir Stirling Moss isn't a world champion because of them and so many others have been the same. I bet after all this there will be no punishment. Someone did suggest him and Ricciardo swap seats for a weekend. That way he can still score but then we would see how good he really is. I still don't think he's that good.

Regarding vettel v webber....

Webber will never be world champ,he just isnt good enough.if he was he would have done it by now - hes been there long enough

Remember last years title went to the final race.if vettel would have stayed behind webber then lost this years title by 5 points,what then?

Red bull should not have told him to stay second.

They should look after the guy whos given them 3 titles

And no,i dont like vettel much but you dont get to the top by being nice in any occupation imhe

I do agree with a lot of this. Just dont think webber has the killer instinct that is needed to win a title. I would rather both drivers were allowed to race to the end but the consequences are just so high if they take each other out, id still rather see this though as a spectator. Without spectators the sport is pointless so someone has to think about this unless we start seeing a procession again as it was in the ferrari era.

Could always financially punish drivers if they cause a teammate to crash. Obvioulsy the amounts of money would have to be huge but why not put that clause in their contact then let them manage themselves on track? It is a race after all. Vettel is still a **** but id rather see wheel to wheel action right up to the chequered flag plus team mates crashing does genertae a lot of controversey which is always enjoyable.

We did get plenty of wheel to wheel action and tooth and nail overtaking between team mates. Although not to the chequered flag. So they do race between team mates but not through the whole race. It does leave spectators with the last part of the race rather less exciting that it could potentially be but it is a team sport afterall and we do have constructiors championship to think of as well. I like the system as it is when they race till the ast stop and then hold positions tp maximise the returns for the drivers and for the team. IMHO it was all about Vettell being a tit, a spoiled brat shouting "ME!, ME!, ME!" than anythig else

Vettel is still a **** but id rather see wheel to wheel action right up to the chequered flag plus team mates crashing does genertae a lot of controversey which is always enjoyable.

Me too - it's also disappointing that so many of the race outcomes seem to be decided in the pitlane rather than on track as well as team decisions to "turn down" the car to save fuel or preserve the engine or tyres. I want to see them driving on the edge of their and their car's ability and not having to worry about managing "consumables"

Chris

Me too Chris but unfortunately this is not the fastest way to finish the race and win it. They can carry enough fuel to finish the race no probs they just decide how much it is based on simulation and off they go. Merc overestimated the lenght of time on inters and pop goes the weasel, cars have to be turned down to get them home. Who was who tried pushing the car to finishing line after running out of juice meters away from the finish line and fainte in a spectalura fashion? It was a few good years back, was it Nigel?

It's the tyres holding them back more than anything. They are scared of pushing them for fear of them "dropping off the cliff" 5 laps from the end.

Mansell, 1984, Dallas GP. Attempted to push his Lotus across the line in 40c heat but collapsed doing so - it was more to do with a gearbox issue rather than fuel.

The only driver I can recall running out of fuel and pushing was Jack Brabham in the 1959 US GP - eventually he finished third.

Prost also did it in 1986 at the Hockenheimring but the line was too far away.

I was devestated when lightning mcqueens tyres blew

Poor bugger,shoulda listened to his pit crew

I agree with the managing consumables view. This type of antic is for endurance racing. F1 is a sprint race and in sprinting you dont give up before the finish line. Unless your usain bolt but thats 1 exception.

They under fueled Hamiltons car but not Rosbergs so why should he suffer for Hamiltons teams balls up? They each pick their own strategy. Hamiltons was flawed yet Rosberg gets handicapped to keep him in check therefore what the point of Rosberg even picking a different strategy? He could have easily passed Hamilton and cruised to the end preserving his tyres. Its becoming more like flipping chess than racing.

Me too - it's also disappointing that so many of the race outcomes seem to be decided in the pitlane rather than on track as well as team decisions to "turn down" the car to save fuel or preserve the engine or tyres. I want to see them driving on the edge of their and their car's ability and not having to worry about managing "consumables"

Chris

That's all well and good if the drivers are driving under the same terms - Webber was told to turn his engine down, Vettel strangely wasn't/chose to ignore it

Any 'race to the finish', as you suggest, must be on the same terms for both drivers

That's all well and good if the drivers are driving under the same terms - Webber was told to turn his engine down, Vettel strangely wasn't/chose to ignore it

Any 'race to the finish', as you suggest, must be on the same terms for both drivers

Yep, which is what I'm saying - turning an engine down should not even be an option to the driver, imho!

Chris

As much as I'd agree with the views that start to finish all out racing IS very exciting and a easier to watch I also enjoy the team work (or lack of it ) and the strategy side of the sport. It makes it even more unpredictable and fun to watch in my view. Otherwise all you have to do is to run a qualifying session to decide who is the fastest and hand out the trophies.

All those additional variables of chosen fuel load, tyre strategy, decision of when to push and how hard, cooperation of lack of it between the team mates - that is what makes the sport interesting unpredictable and exciting for me.

I do like the strategy as long as it doesn't hold back racing. After watching BTCC they had 3 races with 20ish laps. All the racing is flatout and while tyres do wear out like F1 the fuel never does.

There's loads of things I'd like to see come back like qualifying tyres then start on whatever tyre you want but still have to use both sets. Points for qualifying within the top 4 would be good and would force people to actually try rather than scrape into Q3 and sit on it. Another idea could be for when Goodwood happens have the teams do the hill climb like everyone else but get points for being fastest. Almost like a rally special stage but point instead of time added to the overall rally time.

I think we are getting into a realm of "tweaking the format". Nothing wrong with that per se but with all the rules, team orders, turning engines down etc - it makes the F1 what it is - a very special formula. If you want to see pure drivers skills tested then there are formulas where all have exactly the same hardware, no strategies or team orders/team work. That's why I like karting so much

F1 is what it is and should be consumed as served. It's like with people complaining about MK2 Fabia vRS being not so much of a hot hatch, more body roll than Clio Sport Cup (or whatever) etc. It is what it is, don't like then sell and buy a Clio .

I am not trying to end a discussion here by trying to employ a "gagging argument" of some sort. I actually enjoy it and like to talk about it. Discussing potential format improvements (we had many over the years, most ending up in tears ) is also part of the fun involved in being a F1 fan.

As much as I'd agree with the views that start to finish all out racing IS very exciting and a easier to watch I also enjoy the team work (or lack of it ) and the strategy side of the sport. It makes it even more unpredictable and fun to watch in my view. Otherwise all you have to do is to run a qualifying session to decide who is the fastest and hand out the trophies.

All those additional variables of chosen fuel load, tyre strategy, decision of when to push and how hard, cooperation of lack of it between the team mates - that is what makes the sport interesting unpredictable and exciting for me.

Your probably right. I do like the strategy elements and in fact the controversey following the last race has certainly spiced things up going into the next few races. Even the fact the tyres degrade so much that cars cant go flat out is quite interesting as its just basically another engineering hurdle to overcome which is what F1 is all about. Make the car easy on tyres with a smooth driver then you have a winning formula. Its also good that these criteria change from year to year so that its not always about horsepower or downforce i.e the engineering chalenges are constantly evolving and keeping teams on their toes. Some will be happy others wont but it does seem to make for interesting races.

Actually hope that there is some more "controversey" at the next race as it does make the build up more entertaining.

Yep, which is what I'm saying - turning an engine down should not even be an option to the driver, imho!

Chris

So the throttle pedal should be replaced with an on-off switch, and turning the engine off should apply the brakes?

Eddie and his questionable shirts are back this weekend

What i don't understand is (other than safety) why they did away with the fuel stops.... one of the reasons cited for getting rid of them was that they decided it was making for too many pit stops and confusing the "less informed" viewers who couldn't tell who was really winning due to the differing strategies,,,, Yet, here we are having 3 or 4 stops per race with not enough fuel for them to "race" each other and differing tyre compounds confusing the average viewer, who still cannot follow what is going on! and please, please can we do away with the drs! i'm sick of these fake overtakes!

Eddie and his questionable shirts are back this weekend

I wonder how Susy and Eddie will interact - he's a bit of a ladies man

I miss the occassional fireball too