And who doesn't ? :strong:

And no flappy paddle option either.

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I drove new Octy last Sat with DSG, only 105PS oil chugger under the bonnet only but was still impressed really, despite the distinctive lack of flappy paddles

You can retro fit the flappy paddles though :lol:

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Well okay not the paddles but you can swap the steering wheel.

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So what is new about a DSG 'box? Gears are gears, essentially the same pattern as trillions of existing manuals. The hydraulic control system is in essence the same as billions of "normal" autos. The dual clutch is again to all intents and purposes the same as the aforementioned auto boxes or the vast majority of motorcycle clutches, the only difference being the doubling up. Electronic control systems? been there, did it decades ago for engine management, ABS etc plus of course, all the tooling and machinery which manufactures our modern world . Modern "conventional" autos like the GM 6L80/90E (produced by the billion) also use electronics to control the hydraulic circuits.

So all pretty mature technology separately.

Admittedly, the concept of mixing them all together to produce a better auto is new, as in only a couple of decades or so. The real "newness" is the end user not RFM (no, that's probably not new!) and failing to adapt to the required procedures of a new technology.

No doubt, there have been failures, possibly the worst being VAG not doing more to support its own product better.

After a very brief google, the first page reveals there are a couple of companies offering new mechatronic units and another couple offering repair services.

I'd have one in a flash.

One thing about autos that people tend not to mention is that they tend to be safer - focussing on steering rather than clutch/gears/revs. The folks that prefer manuals tend to be "enthusiasts" who like all aspects of driving (albeit they no longer decry the lack of manual ignition advance, fuel mixture richness, etc etc as they probably did 60 yrs ago!). While I wouldn't want an auto in a Caterham 7, for the average driver (not that anyone would admit to being one of course!) an auto makes lots of sense. This is one area where the Yanks have got it right IMHO.

DSG boxes are akin to the olde worlde preselector 'boxes but with some computer determining what to preselect, and when to engage! Very neat - it's a shame VAG and others price them as luxury options rather than on a more cost-plus-margin basis. If they were just an extra £200 who wouldn't have one?

Nick, there is nothing new in a breakthrough type of way. However, you are right in saying that putting all those bits together in a exceptionally well working, light and cost effective (many probably would disagree here) is what is new, especially putting it in a budget, mass produced car. Porsche were the first to use it in their cars in 70's so the tech is VERY old. There some really nice vids on da toobe showing the workings of DSG box, worth watching.

@totally square

I'd have a DSG box in Catheram 7 any day, provided it had racing management soft developed for it YOu'd be surprised how much more fun driving it would become!

One thing about autos that people tend not to mention is that they tend to be safer - focussing on steering rather than clutch/gears/revs.

Slightly disagree.

Based on my experience of "yanks" driving, i'm married to one and know a lot more, the ones that drive autos are "far from" in control of their vehicles.

The ones that drive "standards" tend to actually be paying attention to what is going on, understand cars and generally take pleasure from driving.

They drive autos because they allow them to get on with the business of doing anything else but driving. My Mrs will tell you the same

Perhaps the context should have been clarified, because TS didn't mention any nationality. If you find the majority of yanks to have low levels of concentration behind the wheel, then is that may just be true for the circles in which you move, but it is not because of the autobox, any other driver aids, or even their Americaness. The point being made I think is, that it is a couple of tasks less to concentrate on, leaving a little bit more intellectual capacity for the rest, like observation and car control.

^ One has to have that intelectuall capacity in the first place . Antics I am victim of on our roads almost daily make me wonder how on earth such morons were issued with a license allowing them to be on public roads...

I had a VAG 2.0Tfsi DSg (in Seat form) It was really quite good but not the revelatory experience it appears to be for others Excellent on the open road where manuals do pretty well. Where it didn't do so well was in town where it's low speed and manoeuvring behaviour wasn't as accomplished as a good torque converter box.

Flappy paddles may be of some help if driving close to the edge of your, or the car's performance. In ordinary driving an averagely competent driver should not be short of capacity to select an appropriate gear.

There are people who are able to drive perfectly well without the extra processes involved in gear selection and clutch control but who might not be able to drive without an auto and I say good luck to them.

Interesting comparison today, in Autocar & Autoexpress magazines, of the new Octavia III in manual and DSG form.

Both were the new 2.0 TDI in 148 bhp form.

The manual figures were:

0- 62mph 8.2 secs.135 mph.

combined mpg.68.9

CO2.106gm/km

The DSG figures were:

0-62mph 8.3secs.134mph.

combined mpg 62.8

CO2. 119gm/km

They also thought the DSG made smooth urban progress difficult because of its determination to stay in a high gear even under Duress.(Whatever that means.)

I had a VAG 2.0Tfsi DSg (in Seat form) It was really quite good but not the revelatory experience it appears to be for others Excellent on the open road where manuals do pretty well. Where it didn't do so well was in town where it's low speed and manoeuvring behaviour wasn't as accomplished as a good torque converter box.

I agree. Having had 2 DSG equipped Skodas (Octavia and Superb) I do think it's a very clever box and, 95% of the time, a joy to use. Having gone back to a manual on the Yeti I particularly miss the DSG in traffic jams, but I don't miss its dimwittedness at roundabouts at all. It is also a complex bit of kit and repair bills, when they happen, tend to be large.

O know it is not "my section" and I only can talk about 7-speed DSG as fitted to my Fabia vRS. Having said that and Skoda being my first car I ever OWNED with some kind of an auto box I was really apprehensive and wasn't expecting anything special. AFAIK Superb & Octy have 6-speed DSG boxes and maybe the are very different from new 7-speed DSG I have... Although it was not experience when I test drove (alone) the new Octy last Sat. I could not fault it really in any mode...

As for my 7-speed DSG and having coated experiences with plenty of other vRS owners this box receives nothing but highest accolades. What staying in high gears under duress?? What problems in roundabouts?? Another thing reported by all Fabia vRS was an observation that this box is "learning" the way you drive. I can vouch for that as I paid very particular attention to how it shifts the gears in D mode and it does exactly what I would do if I was to do it in manual mode. I personally am rather chuffed with it

The average driver is awful at changing gears. Almost everybody who I am driven by can't control the clutch properly and give me a smooth ride. So for the average driver an auto 'box would make life more pleasant for their passengers.

People say to me they like to be in control of their cars. Most of the time I don't think they are and they use the wrong gear in my experience.

Having done 85,000 miles or so in DSG vehicles over the last 4 years, I have learnt the art of using the DSG. It is an art and anticipation is the name of the game.

Yes the 'box will sometimes choose what i feel is too low a gear, but more often than not, I should be in the gear the car has selected, by that I mean corners. I need to slow right down so I can always see the tarmac for the distance I can safely stop in.

There are times when it selects 2nd gear at around 15-18mph when I would probably use 3rd if it were a manual going over speed jumps or turning at junctions.

My car will pull 4th at 20mph if I use 'manual' mode. 5th at about 28/29mph and 6th around 38mph.

I have noticed when cold it really hangs on to high gears longer than when hot.

I rarely have a problem with roundabouts, but then I can override the auto with a click of the fingers tips.

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Just speculation about the new Octy defaulting to too high a gear, I suspect the current new boxes do learn as jabozuma says and I also suspect that the all important emissions figures will be a dominant part of the design parameters for a new launch model.So it is possible that subjecting a new Octy DSG to an intense "Italian Tune" may be a sound strategy.

Perhaps the context should have been clarified, because TS didn't mention any nationality. If you find the majority of yanks to have low levels of concentration behind the wheel, then is that may just be true for the circles in which you move, but it is not because of the autobox, any other driver aids, or even their Americaness. The point being made I think is, that it is a couple of tasks less to concentrate on, leaving a little bit more intellectual capacity for the rest, like observation and car control.

He actually specifically used the term "Yanks" in his post, which is why i responded as i did.

Because of my married and working life i know a lot of Americans over a variety of "demographics".

Driving to the majority is a "tool" and the autobox makes their life easier. The ones that "like" to drive learned to drive a standard.

The "standard" drivers would argue it allows them to control the car to a greater degree than an "auto" does.

The DSG box is somewhat different, which is why i raised my initial question about reliability.

The average driver is awful at changing gears. Almost everybody who I am driven by can't control the clutch properly and give me a smooth ride. So for the average driver an auto 'box would make life more pleasant for their passengers.

People say to me they like to be in control of their cars. Most of the time I don't think they are and they use the wrong gear in my experience.

Don't disagree with any of the above.

Certain cars are harder to drive smoothly than others in my experience.

I've also driven a couple of older cars with auto's that were god awful in terms of "dim witidness" and "jerky" changes.

I think my next step, based on the initial question, will be to suck it and see on a DSG box with a test drive or two.

I do worry that if it is a "learning" box that a test vehicle would be a bit puzzled by the number of driving styles it would be exposed to?

Edited 21 March, 201313 yr by AlleyCat`

I wouldn't worry about box getting confused as I do not think it changes every 10 miles drive or so . I'd suspect when it receives data ranging from one extreme (banzai red-liner driver) to the other (75 professor emeritus of theoretical accounting with severe cause of lumbago and barely passing his eye test for the DVLA purposes) then it averages it and you get a system working in the most "neutral" manner.

Test drive is a must, preferable a long one (get the car for a weekend) and if not then without the dealer sitting next to you

He actually specifically used the term "Yanks" in his post, which is why i responded as i did.

Because of my married and working life i know a lot of Americans over a variety of "demographics".....

I have some credibility in commenting on US driving too - I didnt marry one mind you, but lived in the US and drive there still on a regular basis

The vast scale of auto box adoption there has led to them being very reliable in general, although the DSG does still ruffle feathers on occasions - eg http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4796346

The 8 speed ZF auto 'box various manufacturers are using now is brilliant. I'd have one over a manual any time. More efficient as well. More so than my 6 speed wet clutch DSG.

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Sorry mate. There is nothing more efficient than a manual box.

Sorry mate. There is nothing more efficient than a manual box.

I always thought so, but the published BMW 5 series fuel consumption figures for the 8 speed auto when I last looked at it said otherwise, which surprised me.

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Sorry mate. There is nothing more efficient than a manual box.

Depends on which 'efficiency' you're after, doesn't it? Try www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA , for instance.

Sorry mate. There is nothing more efficient than a manual box.

I will do a test and drive a whole tank on manual he usual way (mostly pensioner driving with one redline blast aday) and compare this to my consupmtion figures for D-mode driving. As rockhopper says, new boxes are waay more efficient than manuals in REAL LIFE. Nobody can get published manual box figures in real life, same as in fuel consumption fiction data