2wd or 4wd that is the question

[MCAMRA]

There you go again...little bridge, little island, blah blah blah

Time to put you back on my little ignore list methinks.

I was actually being honest.....sorry you took it that way.

[MarieK]

Mine has 5    (presumably you don't have the spare wheel option)

 

Funnily enough mine has 5 as well 

[Frenchtone]

 

Its a bloody war on the roads here ............

 

Not in my bit of france, ok Paris is here but courtesy rules! - I have never had a need for 4wd, coped with snow in march this year, never got stuck, possibly down to driving style, used to live on the western flanks of the pennines near Rochdale, where snow was a regular winter feature, learned the niceties way back then, my view once learned, never forgotten!

Just my sixpennuth

[Frenchtone]

Forgot to add, 2wd with a set of winters, an unknown chinese brand but never been problematic in the 2 yrs of use!

[MCAMRA]

Not in my bit of france, ok Paris is here but courtesy rules! - I have never had a need for 4wd, coped with snow in march this year, never got stuck, possibly down to driving style, used to live on the western flanks of the pennines near Rochdale, where snow was a regular winter feature, learned the niceties way back then, my view once learned, never forgotten!

Just my sixpennuth

Yesterday on the the A10 (in the middle of a big big big thunderstorm) it was a nightmare and scary. Thousands of Dutch, German, English (a few Scottish) and many, many Persians thrown into the mix all trying to get to there destinations as quickly as possible .....its was very seriously dangerous....like every year (during the summer period)...everyone cutting each other up to save a pointless couple of minutes. Yes, to keep safe I like that 4x4 back-up...sorry if that annoys anyone. How many people died on French roads yesterday.... a lot methinks !

I commuted to work in Paris for two years on the BP (every morning and every evening) and I can tell you very clearly and straight....it was very very dangerous....especially in the rain. Everyone in Paris thinks they are a bloody hero in their car.

My next car will be a 4x4.

[briskycat]

MCAMRA, are you serious about the dangers of driving in France?

[Frenchtone]

 

My next car will be a 4 x 4

 

Good for you, M Hollande will be pleased to hear that!!  Additional TVA income!! - might help the sorry state of the French economy!!

[Macdemon]

Got news for you people......................MY Yeti permanently has 4 wheels.  

 

 

Mine has 5    (presumably you don't have the spare wheel option)

 

Nope, I have the variable boot floor, with 2 cans of 'gunk'.

[MCAMRA]

Good for you, M Hollande will be pleased to hear that!!

That is the whole essence of this thread. AYeti (4x4) is not strictly a 4x4 because its not permanent, yet people (and governments) treat it as such....and associate with all the cliches...i.e its only useful if you go off road.

Opting for the hadex system is no different to opting for ESP ect....its a safety feature and should be viewed upon as such.

I think all cars should have it and M Hollande should give me a rebate on my tax as I am theoritcally less likely to have an accident.

[bilun777]

I've already got a set of 4 winter tyres that I've used on Scarlet over the last three winters so I know how useful they are.

Fortunately through work I am familiar with driving in all conditions (and all speeds)in rural Northumberland. I have also done off road driver training at work.

I think you answered your own question there.

My current Yeti is 2 wheel drive,and I also have a second set of Steel wheels with Continental winter tyres.

The braking ,and handling/cornering,is noticeably better than in my previous 4x4 Yeti on it's 17" summer tyres.

The only situation that my 4x4 was much better in than 2 wheel drive ,was when pulling away from stationary when the roads were wet or slippery.

[Duck_Pond]

I got 4x4 on mine because I was fed up of my Fabia getting stuck on muddy tracks where I'd driven down, in search of wildlife to photo. The added ground clearance of the Yeti helps on that score too.

 

The additional grip in all weathers wasn't really a factor for me. When the weather is poor, I drive more slowly and carefully. It just so happens that the 4x4 and the 4 Seasons tyres also work very well with a lazy b'stard who can't be bothered to change tyres for the winter / summer.

 

If I didn't have this hobby then chances are, I'd have stuck with a 2wd car. Probably gone for a vRS Octy actually.

[yetifabia]

It's a shame this topic has got out of hand.  At a guess, around 90% of the cars on the road are two wheel drive, and I suspect that includes areas like the Highlands.  Clearly four wheel drive isn't essential, and if you are not planning to go off road you can live without it.  I think the current fad for claiming that a two wheel drive on winter tyres is better than a four wheel drive on summer/all weather tyres is a little dangerous.  I've seen the video of Yeti's racing around in loose snow, but those aren't the conditions that most of us face.  However, if you drive sensibly, and within both you and your car's limits, you will be OK (unless some other mad b*****d hits you!).  

 

If you do plan to go off road then I would suggest four wheel drive is indispensable.  It's not just mud plugging, have a look at the pics from the mega meet of a 2wd Yeti struggling on dry grass!  A friend of mine got stuck on an entirely flat field because one wheel was parked on a patch of slippery grass!  Luckily, I was there to give him a push, then drive away in my 4wd!  If you enjoy fast (safe) driving on roads, you will also appreciate the extra grip of 4wd.  Finally, if you want 4wd for no other reason than you just do, then we live in a country where you have that choice.  Once you have made that choice you don't have to keep defending it, and you won't die if you choose to drive a 2wd, wherever you live.

[Huskoda]

I think the current fad for claiming that a two wheel drive on winter tyres is better than a four wheel drive on summer/all weather tyres is a little dangerous.

Its hardly a fad. It works and is proven to work well. Infact it works so well its the law in a number of countries. It helps you keep control of your car and improves your steering and braking, which 4 wheel drive does nothing for.

 

The dangerous fad is people thinking a 4x4 will help them in snow. It may help them go faster, but that just increases the speed with which they can crash in conditions they are unequipped for as they cannot stop or turn any better than a 2wd.

[MCAMRA]

.... a road that has been caked in hot sun for a month is as slippery as ice after a rain fall.

..... a compacted layer of leaves on a bend on a dark gloomy country road in Autumn.

..... Slippery mud thrown up onto a country road by big farm traffic.

..... A sharp heavy rain fall

...... A small unknown diesel spillage

There are millions of other seniros that cause accidents every year on our roads that happen when the two front wheels of a car lose traction. Winter tyres will not prevent this nor will a stupid speed camera.

A Yeti Hadex (which is know what I am going to call it) is a safer bet than any 2 wheel drive car I can think of.

The prevention of just one minor accident (insurance, repair ect) during the life span of the car (and I will keep mine for ten years) will offset the additional cost of getting the Hadex system....not forgetting peace of mind.

Edited 29 July, 2013 by MCAMRA

[Huskoda]

There are millions of other seniros that cause accidents every year on our roads that happen when the two front wheels of a car lose traction.

While I have a 4 wheel drive Octavia myself because I prefer the way it drives in the wet (no wheelspin setting off), I find it hard to work out how not going fast enough is causing all these accidents. I think you may be confusing the ability to move quicker in the above scenarios with the ability to stop and steer in them.

[PenTom]

Fascinating thread guys. Keep 'em coming (and remember to play nicely)...

[PenTom]

Wish I had more time to get into this one – unfortunately, a seriously tight deadline precludes this. But, if anyone else wants to take this idea and run with it... any thoughts on the relative performance of a seriously experienced, highly-trained driver in a FWD vehicle versus a complete novice in a 4WD over the same set of road conditions? Discuss!

[Frenchtone]

If we are all so concerned about route safety etc why aren't there no end of 'armoured' personnel carriers out there, i think the notion of 4 x 4 safety is a myth, as above, a novice could cause mayhem, people confuse safety with speed and not driving within ones capabilities and the road conditions at the time!

[MCAMRA]

Wish I had more time to get into this one – unfortunately, a seriously tight deadline precludes this. But, if anyone else wants to take this idea and run with it... any thoughts on the relative performance of a seriously experienced, highly-trained driver in a FWD vehicle versus a complete novice in a 4WD over the same set of road conditions? Discuss!

Im sure Aryton Senna will be along in a minute.....oh no, he is dead. I'm sure some fab sunday racing driver will give their opinion......but then again I prefer the advice of those who drive in a non sterile environment.

Edited 29 July, 2013 by MCAMRA

[briskycat]

Some experts say that 4x4s are more dangerous (especially for inexperienced drivers) than either FWDs or RWDs since a 4x4 can behave like a FWD and sometimes - like an RWD, depending on many factors.

[Frenchtone]

depends on your view of sterile!, i take risks everyday, but having a level of knowledge, expectation, appreciation of my own safety i'm off to the beach to swim, albeit the red flags are out, now for fun of a different nature

[900000]

Audi invented quattro drive for normal cars...  I wonder why?  Peeps above are going on about 4x4 systems as if these are the sole domain of SUVs and Crossovers.  Erm... there are perfectly normal looking sedans and station wagons out there (some with Audi badges) that have a 4x4 system underfoot.  Why?  Because too much power through the front wheels leads to torque steer.  Yes, you can just about control it, as some over 250hp pocket rockets will show you.  But to the average man in the street a 4x4 system spreads the power much better.  That is why you don't get a 1,2 Yeti 4x4.  There is no point in doing that. But then you do get weird things like the Panda 4x4...  the car makers will always fill a niche won't they? But on the whole, 4x4 systems go hand in hand with more powerful engines.

 

So a 4x4 system puts the power down better without wheelspin.  Even on a modestly powerful FWD car you can spin the front wheels in an enthusiastic start.  It is one of the things that gives me great joy in my car that I've never ever heard the wheels chirp on tarmac.  No matter how I try in the wet or dry.  That gives me confidence in the car.  I like that.  In saying that I'm not saying a 2wd is unsafe or anything like that.  Far from it.  I'm just saying that a 4x4 is inherently something that is easier to control in all weather conditions.

 

 

Some experts say that 4x4s are more dangerous (especially for inexperienced drivers) than either FWDs or RWDs since a 4x4 can behave like a FWD and sometimes - like an RWD, depending on many factors.

 

Hmmm...  probably true on cars 10 or 20 years old but on a modern variable, electronically controlled 4x4 system, like the Yeti's, you will be hard pushed to EVER tell which wheels are driven.  So the above statement does not hold true.  What is typical "extreme" RWD behaviour?  Oversteer.  I dare you to get a 4x4 Yeti to oversteer and act like a RWD car!  You won't ever be able to.      

[PenTom]

Cut my 4x4 teeth on and off road in Toyota Hilux pickups back in the day. Now that was interesting...

[PenTom]

MCAMRA, are you serious about the dangers of driving in France?

Love that hat. Seriously.

[MCAMRA]

Why why why oh why has nobody grasped the point that a Yeti 4x4 is not a god damm 4x4. OK... there is a badge at the back of the car that says its a 4x4 and a stupid gearknob plasticky thing that also sugests its a 4x4.......but its not. Its the same for the Golf 4x4. version....its not permenant. The Golf and Yeti are not 4x4's Fact, end of. Enough with this 4x4 business....its giving my arse a headache.

Its not about skill as a driver (Fwd expierenced driver vs non experienced 4x4 driver....STUPID) its about having a little bit of clever kit that lets the car decide if it needs to apply traction to all 4 wheels if a situation arises......whatever that may be. In my case thats probably been a handful of times in the last two years.

Is it worth it......Yes its worth it. ....I have seen to many terible accidents in my time, and lost many dear friends....so anthing that gives you an added sercurity when driving is a good thing.