Mileage - What's it Really Worth?

[skodanorman]

Evening all. 

 

I am looking to change car, to go from an Octavia vRS petrol to an Octavia Scout diesel. Those which I can more easily afford are around the 58 reg (2008) but have mileages hoovering, if not over, 100,000 miles. The cars fit my needs in every way but I am slightly put off by this. I do roughly 15,000 miles annually so 3 years down the line the mileage will be at 145,000 miles. This will again affect the value adversely but also mean that certain things will have needed replacing and potentially broken. Given there would be a certain degree of finance on the car, additional pains and woes aren't really what I'm after. 

That said, diesels are renowned for lasting for high mileages, so given the car has been correctly serviced and maintained over its preceding miles and I continue the work, will it really be a problem?

It'd be the 2.0 TDI PD 140bhp engine. 

 

So my question is two fold really... how well do these engines stand up to high mileage, particularly in Scout form; and secondly, should I put off by high mileage or is it more of a myth? 

 

Thanks. 

[Noggythenog]

 i would look into the worst case scenario and find out what a complete engine transplant would cost for future reference or a cost to get it fully reconditioned.looking at mileages on older vw engines then 200k isnt unachievable but im not sure about the octavia engine, maybe some others know more about it.

 

my car had only done 25k miles when it had the engine stripped and others have lots and lots of teething problems at low mileages, for a car to have done 145k it has surely got well passed the teething problems and more into the general wear and tear arena.

 

also i would say if it is a diesel then to have hight mileage it has generally been well used rather than babied and in my opinion that's a good thing for a diesel to stop ddf, sticky turbo vein problems etc.

[Aspman]

At those miles you're going to have to budget for repairs.

 

The engines can last that long and much longer but things like wheel bearings, shocks, springs, various sensors will all be starting to go 'off'.

 

That's not to say a well looked after car with 100k on it won't do another 100k reletively trouble free.

 

DPF would be my main concern at that mileage on a diesel. You might want to budget for removing it and getting the map changed to suit.

[skodanorman]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, my biggest concern with moving from petrol to diesel is the introduction of a DPF. Does anyone have a ball park figure of the costs involved in a DPF removal? I'd be interested in doing that as most of our journeys are country lanes and farm tracks so not really the sort of places where you can "blow the cob webs" out so to speak. 

 

Thanks for the replies. It would seem then that there isn't anything inherently wrong, but the value of the car should be lowered accordingly to account for anticipated repair bills?

[KBPhoto]

I'm in a similar situation as I'm going from a PD140 BKD engine and hoping to get a Scout early next year.

The BMM PD140 Scout engine is slightly different to mine, I'm led to believe its a 8V DHOC engine as opposed to the 16V.

However my BKD engine is on 130k miles and just beginning to show a few odd suspension knocks and an unidentified noise from the engine on cold starting.

As above really, things will start to wear and need replacing as the mileage gets higher, but that's the same with any car.

I believe that a properly looked after Skoda diesel will see 200k+ without too many issues.

Have a look at my thread 'Some questions for Scout owners'. http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/283314-some-questions-for-scout-owners/?fromsearch=1

Edited to correct link!

[Noggythenog]

I think ball park figure £1000 all in to remove, replace, update software for DPF.

 

to replace the DPF if it goes wrong i also think about £1000.

 

I dont really know if the claimed 80 to 100k miles from a DPF are true as they are relatively new devices but if you are buying  a car with 100k and it hasnt had a new DPF then i'd budget for one pretty soon after.

 

if you wont be doing many miles i'd seriously consider petrol considering the higher price of diesel anyway.

[KBPhoto]

At 15k average he deserves a diesel...

Apparently the PD engines weren't designed to have a DPF but the newer CR engines were so should give less problems.

The BKD PD140 (not Scout engine) doesn't have a DPF. The BMM (Scout) one does.

There are few petrol Scouts around!

[skodanorman]

I've seen the 1.8tsi Scouts and I must admit I like the idea of having a chipped 1.8tsi with 200bhp! But, one of the reasons for the vRS going is the fuel consumption relative to the miles done and I am lead to believe a diesel is better off-road - not that we will be doing serious off-roading but you know. And lastly, I'd rather have a pre-FL and I think the only petrol option then was the 2.0fsi? 

[skodanorman]

All that said, any experience of the 1.8tsi engine?

[skodanorman]

I'm in a similar situation as I'm going from a PD140 BKD engine and hoping to get a Scout early next year.

The BMM PD140 Scout engine is slightly different to mine, I'm led to believe its a 8V DHOC engine as opposed to the 16V ...

...Have a look at my thread 'Some questions for Scout owners'. http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/283949-columbus-unit-software-update-im-confused/?fromsearch=1

 

Thanks, link is about a Columbus but I have seen your thread. 

 

So there is a BKD and a BMM version of the PD140? How would you know the difference? Do the abbreviations stand for anything in particular? 

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Not the same car but I bought my Fabia with 116,000 miles on (roughly)

 

120,000 Turbo went (considering it was a KKK turbo this was pretty good going)

125,000 One wheel bearing went

125,000 Alternator wire broke (common fabia issue)

140,000 DMF started knocking

150,000 Gearbox lost 1st and 2nd and reverse. Repaired. 

 

I'm now on 171,000 miles. Granted suspension & brakes have been replaced but only because I wanted to upgrade, the old setup was still performing fine. Original injectors, engine has never needed any work, no smoke, no oil use. Starts on the button and aside from the seat getting mullered from my fat arse the inside is still solid and rattle free. Bearing in mind the car runs near 100bhp more than stock and takes a good smashing round a track or 1/4 mile it does pretty well. 

 

I've always bought on miles and condition rather than age and miles. I guess you need to factor in how long you plan to own it and how much it'll be worth at the end too. 

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

So there is a BKD and a BMM version of the PD140? How would you know the difference? Do the abbreviations stand for anything in particular? 

 

Those are the engine codes, dont stand for anything. They'll be on the engine somewhere I'd have thought. 

[KBPhoto]

Try this thread: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/283314-some-questions-for-scout-owners/?fromsearch=1

Sorry!

BKD was never fitted the the Scout AFAIK. Only BMM or the Common Rail engine (2010 onwards) so you don't need to know the difference.

I don't know what the fuel consumption of the 1.8tsi is, but a remap should improve it a bit. Ask to have economy over performance and you should get the most gains.

[cheezemonkhai]

At 110k miles, the suspension is fairly well knackered, however it's amazing how good a b12 kit and new bushes/bearings makes the car.

[skodanorman]

B21 kit?

[PastyBoy]

B21 kit?

 

I think that's a typo and means B12 the Bilstein suspension upgrade

 

As you clearly already know Rob 100k isn't what it used to be; especially on a diesel.

People still attribute it as a big mile stone (which it is) but gone are the days when reaching 100k was an acheivement, and it was the pointat which things started to fall off.

 

I have to echo Matt's post.

My Fabia is now on 130k and despite the turbo going back in June (when i was on track giving it some serious crap) i've not had to have any work on the engine at all.

The suspension has needed replacing but everything else is sweet as a nut, orignal slutch is still slip free, and there's been no other occasion where it had to be off the road.

[James I]

High mileage all subject to the cars history, as stated above, a car with high mileage means all components have had that much wear and tear, on the plus side most new cars do not rot so if you are quite happy to repair things when they let go you should have no issues.

 I am intrigued at every bodies fears and negative comments about DPF's, I am on my second car now with DPF, my Audi A4 did 143,000 miles with me in three years and the DPF still worked fine, my Yeti is now on for 90,000 and no issue with the DPF at all, I have this for another year so I guess on 135,000 when this car is changed.

 

 One thing I will say is about cars and mileage.

 

 WHen a car is delivered with zero'ish miles you notice the clutch is nice and light, the steering is positive and the gear change slightly notchy with an engine that is not willing to rev too freely, by the time 45,000 miles have been racked up, everything is freeing up, engine revs freely and gear changes are slick, the clutch gets heavier to press.

 by the time you are up to 85-90,000, the clutch is quite heavy, the engine revs freely but sounds a bit louder, on cold starts there are a few more taps and rattles and the gear change is very free with a bit of play in the gear stick when in gear, also I have transmission whine on the Yeti now.

 I expect at 135,000 miles these things to have progressed and the addition of front suspension knocks all due to wear and tear, one thing for sure the car will still be driven in the same manner as when it was bought.

 So be as careful as you can choosing your future car and hope for the best but be prepared for the worst, ultimately take what comes and don't worry too much as they haven't stopped making cars and you can always get another.

 

 This reminds me, I spotted my old Passat on Sunday, it was an 04 100 PD TDi estate, it had 141,000 miles on it when I changed it in 2007, it still looks good when I saw it too!

[skodanorman]

Thanks for the info. 

 

I thought that was B12 thing was as suspension kit. Not much use on a Scout though.

 

Its interesting food for thought and really puts the Scouts in a strange position. Those with 100k plus on are still commanding upwards of £6,000. That means you're still going to be contenting with depreciation at the same time as replacing worn parts and waiting anxiously for any big mechanical failures. Having said that, my mum has a 2004 Octavia (1.9 tdi) which she had from new. It just on 100,000 miles now and in that time it hasn't needed any work doing other than brakes/tyres. It is starting to rust, but then it lives exposed to North Sea air all year round and it is never cleaned. What does bother me though is that it does feel worn. The steering wheel, seats, switches. Not a big deal I suppose, but something to take in to consideration. 

However, our annual mileage 15-20,000miles means we need something that is comfortable and dependable and I think that baton really falls at the door of a modern car. So I wonder whether getting a newer car makes sense, because although you then have finance payments and depreciation, you don't have to worry about parts of the car expiring. 

 

I'm at a loss as to what to do. But I suppose its all immaterial until someone buys my car - and if they don't then I'll keep it. No hardship! 

[CitigoAllen]

Another problem with Diesel engines is the dual mass fly wheel. My husband had one go in a diesel Vectra £1400 to get replaced. I know a mechanic who says modern diesels are too complex and he would not buy one.

[James I]

Another problem with Diesel engines is the dual mass fly wheel. My husband had one go in a diesel Vectra £1400 to get replaced. I know a mechanic who says modern diesels are too complex and he would not buy one.

 

 Bad advice I would say, nothing wrong with the design of a dual mass flywheel, it is usually down to the driver if one fails, the usual holding the car by riding the clutch or wheel spins etc. in the last 8 years I have covered in excess of 400,000 miles in diesel cars each one doing three years and 135,000 miles, Passat, A4, Yeti all with DMF and all were sold on the original clutch that was put in the car at manufacture.

 

 Modern cars fail due to poor maintenance and a lack of mechanical sympathy from the user. In most cases.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

+ 1 on James post. My Fabia's DMF started making noises at 140,000 miles. I'd had a fairly hard time between 110,000 and 140,000 miles tbf running a hybrid turbo on it. 

 

Petrol and Diesel cars are both complexed now days, buy the right one for your needs and look after it and you'll have no massive issues. 

[pinkpanther]

All that said, any experience of the 1.8tsi engine?

 

Hi skodanorman, I ran a 1.8 TSi FL Octavia 4x4 for around 10K miles. The car returned an average around 31 mpg and was nigh on unstoppable in the snow.

 

Link to old Fuelly account: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/pinkpanther/octavia

[skodanorman]

I must admit the tsi engine is tempting for performance and lower purchase price but with 31mpg I'd may as well keep the vRS.

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[Duke Steel]

My 2008 2.0 tdi 170 has 210000 miles on the clock . In that time from new and I'm the second owner that brought it from my mate, it has had 6 sets of tyres a DPF removal that cost me £600 all in, one replacement set of disks and pads (about ready for another set ) 3 cambelt's 14 oil services and a clutch slave cylinder ( the one inside the gearbox ) and a rear wiper motor...

It's all about the nature of the miles (motorway) it's done and maintenance.

My Neighbour has the same car with 130000 miles less on it !!!!! and we both agree my car drives better in every way, low milage town cars get a hard life in some cases and high mile'rs just tend to collect stone chips lol.

If you buying a car that's done big miles in a short space of time and its been pampered with service items go for it !

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[lol-lol]

What mileage is really worth is whatever Glass's Giude says it is. Main dealers just look up the book price for the age of the car and then cross index that with the wear index and then look up the mileage adjustment for whether the car has les or more than the average mileage for that model.

What people do IMO opinion is compare cars ie diesel and petrol that are not equal.

The petrol VRS is in a different league of performance that the diesel VRS so it is not compable.

The Mk 2 and 3 diesel VRS are in a similar performance category as the 1.4 TSI (140 hp) petrol. It is due to inertia of engine parts etc that a petrol car can generally perfrom similarly to a diesel with 10 to 20 % less power.

Always go for low revving cars as I am sure they last longer ie the 7 speed DSG allows the petrol engines to be only doing about 27/8 mph per thousand. My current Fabia VRS and recent 1.8 TSI do 20K between services ie similar to the diesel as they are so low revving and actuallly feel less busy than out Octavia VRS TSI which only gets 18K betweeen variable services.