Day Light Running Lights

[JimmyR]

Beware ever using the air-conditioning on your Citigo Elegance because that really will use a vast amount of energy compared to 2x 21 watt bulbs. :sun:  Personally, I love freezing in my one when it's roasting outside.

[CitigoAllen]

Beware ever using the air-conditioning on your Citigo Elegance because that really will use a vast amount of energy compared to 2x 21 watt bulbs. :sun:  Personally, I love freezing in my one when it's roasting outside.

Aircon serves a purpose and can be turned off when not needed. Anyway, I am not going to continue this conversation.

[JimmyR]

Here's what the AA has to say about DRLs

Daytime Running Lights (DRL) Low energy front lights that switch on automatically

 

Daytime running lights are designed to come on automatically when the engine is started

You've probably noticed those bright LED 'eyebrows' on newer cars, but why are so many cars being fitted with them, and what are they for?

As a result of European legislation adopted in 2008 dedicated daytime running lights (DRL) have been required on all new types of passenger cars and small delivery vans since February 2011. Trucks and buses followed from August 2012.

There is no requirement to retro-fit DRLs to existing cars and no Europe-wide requirement for drivers of cars without daytime running lights to drive with headlights on during the day.  If you're driving abroad, check our touring tips for local rules.

Daytime running lights are designed to come on automatically when the engine is started - all other lights should remain off.

Daytime running lights must be bright enough that they can be seen clearly in daylight and as a result are too bright to be used at night time when they would cause dazzle.  Daytime running lights should therefore go off automatically when headlights or sidelights are switched on.

Daytime running lights don't have to be separate lights - some car manufacturers combine them with the front position lamps (side lights) in which case the daytime running lights will dim when the headlights are turned on.

If daytime running lights are located close to indicator lights then the DRL may automatically dim to avoid masking the signal from the indicator when it is operating.

Retrofitting

The requirement to fit daytime running lights applies to new cars only.  There is no requirement to retrofit daytime running lights but kits are available if you wish to do so.  Lights approved to the appropriate EU legislation will have an approval mark on the lamp which includes the letters 'RL'.

Retrofitted daytime running lights should be installed so that they come on with the engine and go off when other lights are turned on.  Manually operated daytime running lights must be turned off at night to avoid dazzling other road users.

Background

The Volvo 240 was the first car in Britain that ran with lights on all the time the engine was running. Although they looked like sidelights they were in-fact separate 21 watt bulbs located alongside the standard 5 watt sidelight bulbs. The brighter bulbs were lit all the time unless the driver turned on the sidelights.

In the mid-1980s the UK planned to introduce 'dim-dip' lighting for use in urban areas at night, rather than for daytime use but plans were scuppered when common European standards couldn't be agreed.

Dim-dip switched on headlights at reduced brightness when the ignition and side lights were on. Volvo and others adopted dim-dip in place of 21 watt side lights for daytime running at this time.

Daytime use of headlights

A lot of discussion followed about whether cars across Europe should have their headlights on all the time – many countries introduced local rules while the European commission considered legislation and possible technical standards.

By 2006 drivers in 12 countries had to drive with their headlights on all year round including Sweden since 1977, Iceland, Latvia, Macedonia and Norway since around 1980, Denmark since 1990 and Romania, Slovenia and parts of Portugal since 1998.

Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic required daytime use of headlights in the winter only while Hungary and Italy required daytime running lights outside built up areas.

The UK never introduced a rule requiring daytime use of headlights.

Benefits

Those in favour of daytime running lights claimed they significantly reduce road deaths and serious injuries, while those against objected to the constant glare of headlights and voiced concern that motorcycle riders may become less conspicuous. There was some concern about increased fuel costs too.

In 2006 the European Commission published the results of research into the effectiveness, costs and benefits of introducing Daytime Running Lights (DRL).

A European Commission study in 2006 suggested that a substantial number of casualties could be prevented across the EU with a positive benefit-to-cost ratio when the costs of fitting lamps and the environmental cost of running them was taken into account.

A later UK Department for Transport (DfT) study confirmed the Commission's findings that there would be a net reduction in accidents, but cast doubts about whether the benefit would outweigh the costs.

The UK study also concluded that dedicated Daytime Running Lights could improve the visibility of cars in dim light without reducing the conspicuity of motorcyclists.

Fuel consumption

Light Emitting Diodes (LED) only consume a fraction of the electricity taken by a normal headlight - they're being used increasingly for other lights on vehicles for the same reason.

Use of dedicated daytime running lights instead of driving with headlights or sidelights also means that tail lights and instrument lights are not illuminated during the day.

The alternator is driven by the engine and spins all the time but it doesn't always consume the same amount of power from the engine. When the electrical load on the alternator increases more power is required to turn it and so fuel consumption is increased.

While headlamps consume 110 watts of power, dedicated daytime running lights using LEDs might consume only 5-10 watts so putting negligible load on the alternator.

(22 October 2012)

[CitigoAllen]

Potty then that the Citigo DRLs use ordinary 21w bulbs and not LEDs.

[gadgetman]

Typically VAG only fit LED when Xenons are fitted.  So any Audi's you see with white LED's will have xenons, otherwise they get halogens making it easy to see who scrimped on their Audi.

[Truthseeker]

DRL's, as has been said, are not mandatory in the UK yet, I have been looking at the Aygo as well as the Citigo and on the lower models of that the DRL's are still an optional extra.

 

Back to the point, the Citigo DRL's are a twin filament bulb with a 21w DRL and a 5w sidelight. Pull the DRL fuse and they will still function as sidelights... Or for power saving with DRL's you can fit some LED's, they're a T20 fitment 

They are a mandatory fitment to all "new" model cars made/introduced after 2011 (?), including the UK. They are however, not mandatory on facelifted models (ie Aygo),  where the original model was made/introduced before 2011 (?) - that explains why they are optional on some Aygo models.

 

Quote - 

 

08 February 2011

Daytime running lights are being made compulsory by the European Commission

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A statement from the European Commission confirms that all new types of passenger cars and small delivery vans now have to be equipped with Daytime Running Lights.

[JimmyR]

Many Citigos (my one for example) do have LED DRLs.

 

 

 

[CitigoAllen]

Where do you get the appropriate LEDs?  Any details.  Thanks in advance.

[gadgetman]

But LED contain nasty materials which have a bigger impact on the environment than running normal bulbs

[Damo]

Many Citigos (my one for example) do have LED DRLs.   

Same as ive ordered fella

Should be here today I hope

Cheers

Damo

[pixel_viking]

I tried several of those LEDs but found them all to be too dim. They stick out farther than normal and the light is not reflected.

 

These MTEC are brighter and have white light: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MTEC-W21-5w-T20-DUAL-FILAMENT-SIDE-DRL-7443-SUPER-WHITE-HID-EFFECT-BULBS-Pair-/400385373634?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ACitigo&hash=item5d38d3f5c2

[DILLIGAFF]

I also tend to think that our colleague may be somewhat contentious, however, to add my two pennorth.....

 

 

IF the operation of DLRs was optional at the discretion of the driver they may be left OFF in poor visibility such as tunnels or driving from bright sun into overhanging tree shade. 

 

I have found them useful in these situations.

 

ALSO if the operation was manual, at times of need it may distract the driver's attention reaching for the switch and just as fog lights are left ON then I suspect DLRs would be left OFF.

[Damo]

I tried several of those LEDs but found them all to be too dim. They stick out farther than normal and the light is not reflected. These MTEC are brighter and have white light: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MTEC-W21-5w-T20-DUAL-FILAMENT-SIDE-DRL-7443-SUPER-WHITE-HID-EFFECT-BULBS-Pair-/400385373634?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ACitigo&hash=item5d38d3f5c2

Oh, dont say that :(

They are my back up plan should the leds not live up to my expectations

Cheers

Damo

[Didescharlie]

I'll wait for your opinion Damo - let me know what you think of them.

[Defenderben]

I take it aftermarket led's do not effect the canbus, like it does on so many other modern cars?

Anyone using LEDs please confirm if they are error free please and if so which ones you have fitted and run OK.

Just hate all these can bus issues nowadays.

TIA.

[pixel_viking]

I have had no issues with the ones I've tried other than them being too dim in my opinion.

 

and I've tried a few of these types

 

I ended up with the MTECs. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MTEC-W21-5w-T20-DUAL-FILAMENT-SIDE-DRL-7443-SUPER-WHITE-HID-EFFECT-BULBS-Pair-/400385373634?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ACitigo&hash=item5d38d3f5c2

 

They are more blueish than the Osram Nightbreaker Plus H4 and HB4 that I use for main lights and fog lights...

Edited 8 August, 2013 by pixel_viking

[JimmyR]

I fitted the LED's just after I took delivery my new Citigo at the beginning of May but I also bought the MTECs and a pair of (hopefully) genuine Polarg M-13s (from the USA) at the same time.  Once I'd fitted the LEDs I was too lazy to try the other two types.  The only thing with the LEDs is that they make the Limited Edition Gold Plus Osram Nightbreaker Plus H4 look slightly yellow (or maybe gold?) in comparison because they are so white themselves.  I'm also a little disappointed with the special HB4 bulbs that I bought for the foglamps.  It seems to be a bit of an art to have ALL the lights matching perfectly, looking lovely and white.  There's plenty of light on the road but it's not the dazzling white that I might have hoped for.  However, as you can see from the photos above, the LEDs are very white compared to the standard bulbs.  I can see where pixel_viking is coming from but as I have only tried the LEDs and compared them with the standard DRL bulbs (as in pics above) I haven't tried the alternatives yet.  However, I don't think dim is the correct word to describe them.  All the non LED 'bulbs' have a single filament which the eye can see in its entireity even if there is no reflector whereas the LED 'bulbs' have 27 separate LEDs pointing in many different directions.  I'm not letting anyone drive my car so will never see what 'my' LED DRLs look like.  I'll leave it to the young whizz kids on here to takes some photos of their Citigos (or even pixel_viking himself) so that we can see exactly what's what and what's best.

[Damo]

Well, just had 2 hours of pain trying to fit these led's

 

Kept popping fuses, no matter which way i had the polarity

 

Tried every combination and had to replace the fuses everytime 

 

Nightmare!

 

Just going to get the MTEC's, a lot easier

 

Fed up

 

Damo

[Stonesie]

Just had a look on the UP forum and they have the same trouble...

 

http://www.upownersclub.co.uk/forum/drl-sidelight-replacements_topic418_page8.html?KW=led+drl

 

They have slightly modified the connectors to get them working, but still say the Mtec filament bulbs are brighter.

[JimmyR]

I'll now have to try some of the other DRL bulbs I have just to compare.  I don't want to be driving around and being known as Dim Jim!!

 

I can only say that I bought mine from HIDS Direct (they also sell on eBay) and I fitted them in minutes. They've been prefect since May 3rd this year and I've never blown a fuse either.

 

"Brand New GEN.2 CANBUS High Power R580 27* SMD 5050 LED

EXTREMELY BRIGHT!

These are the Brightest 5050 SMD LED's *WHITE*

Innovative Design - Prevents Bulb Warning Errors

Easy Intallation - Simple Plug in & Play! 

Ingeniously developed, these LATEST 2nd Generation 7443 LEDs are designed in order to prevent bulb errors when fitting LED to modern cars. These new LED's have a built-in warning controller that stops any errors that you would normally experience with standard LED, improving on the older generation these new LEDS have better heat sink, resistance and longevity."

[pixel_viking]

It's not easy to take photos that are comparable - but here's some that show the standard DRLs vs. MTECs. It's easy to see that the MTECs are whiter.

 

[blackandwhite]

Citigo ali might I ask if you own a dog ?

[CitigoAllen]

Citigo ali might I ask if you own a dog ?

Yes but why would you ask that?

[Elegance75]

I'll now have to try some of the other DRL bulbs I have just to compare.  I don't want to be driving around and being known as Dim Jim!!

 

I can only say that I bought mine from HIDS Direct (they also sell on eBay) and I fitted them in minutes. They've been prefect since May 3rd this year and I've never blown a fuse either.

 

"Brand New GEN.2 CANBUS High Power R580 27* SMD 5050 LED

EXTREMELY BRIGHT!

These are the Brightest 5050 SMD LED's *WHITE*

Innovative Design - Prevents Bulb Warning Errors

Easy Intallation - Simple Plug in & Play! 

Ingeniously developed, these LATEST 2nd Generation 7443 LEDs are designed in order to prevent bulb errors when fitting LED to modern cars. These new LED's have a built-in warning controller that stops any errors that you would normally experience with standard LED, improving on the older generation these new LEDS have better heat sink, resistance and longevity."

 

 

 

 

 

Same bought last week though, no errors work as they should, they do stick out further then the Mtecs though

[Damo]

The LED ones I bought were not from HIDS Direct

 

It seems that only these GEN.2 ones work on the Citigo

 

Elegance 75, Interested to hear how the LED's compare to the MTEC's