Suspension / Steering issue

[Leonblue]

 

Try dBPowerAmp. I use it for all my CD ripping to both FLAC and mp3 and it's great - fully featured, and preserves all tags etc. In future you can use it to rip your CDs into FLAC and mp3 simultaneously. It's reputable software, well supported and widely used. And there's a free version! (Btw, I have no connection with it other than as a very satisfied user of 4 years standing ).

Hope that helps on your minor problem - the steering issue is another matter!

 

Sounds good, does it preserve the file title too? All my filenames are in the format "01 Title.flac" the track number being present forces it to play in the correct order. When converting I was finding that the filename had changed to just "Title.mp3" i.e it had presumably picked up the new filename name from the Tag and not from the original filename. Not having the number present causes tracks to play in alphabetical order, a right pain in the proverbial. Also missing was the cover art, that I had to reinsert manually.

Edited 26 August, 2013 by Leonblue

[Leonblue]

Anyway guys, thanks for your help so far. The car is in tomorrow for two days and hopefully they will find what's causing the problem. It seems that it is only my car that has the problem as none of you guys have the same symptoms. Whether my car was built wrong, or unknowingly damaged during transportation remains to be seen. I will report back as soon as I know more. The FLAC issue, whilst annoying, was not a show stopper and as you have read I was dutifully in the process of converting all my music to Mp3. However if they do not sort the steering issue then the fact that the 'car' is not as described, coupled with the fact that it won't steer straight, should give me good grounds to reject the vehicle.

[badbaz]

Have they checked the rear end too? Never saw it mentioned? Could be steering from the back

[spacenase]

Anyway guys, thanks for your help so far. The car is in tomorrow for two days and hopefully they will find what's causing the problem. It seems that it is only my car that has the problem as none of you guys have the same symptoms. Whether my car was built wrong, or unknowingly damaged during transportation remains to be seen. I will report back as soon as I know more. The FLAC issue, whilst annoying, was not a show stopper and as you have read I was dutifully in the process of converting all my music to Mp3. However if they do not sort the steering issue then the fact that the 'car' is not as described, coupled with the fact that it won't steer straight, should give me good grounds to reject the vehicle.

 

Good luck and keep us updated!

[Leonblue]

 

Have they checked the rear end too? Never saw it mentioned? Could be steering from the back

 

I have suspected the rear axle to be fair.

[LadyOctavialll]

try change the front tires with the rear tires, and see if that make any difference. i have heard that a lot of dealers dont check the tire pressure before delivery, so maybe that should be checked too.

Read the original post, he said he checked the tyre pressures

[Leonblue]

So the car went in for two days. The dealer supposedly checked everything and compared to another car. As far as the service manager was concerned, my car drives as it should, there is nothing wrong and he could not detect a difference between mine and the 'other' customers car. When I spoke to SUK a few days later, I was advised that the dealer had simply test driven my car, decided it was fine and not investigated further. I have been driving it for over a week since but I am still convinced it feels weird. I still do not believe my car is 'right' at all and am thinking of getting an independent opinion. The dealer told me that my only option is to get Skoda to investigate, and if they don't find a fault then I could be charged. What do you guys recommend? Does anyone know of a reputable independent in the St Helens area that can check and produce a report if necessary?

Edited 5 September, 2013 by Leonblue

[foregonereality]

Hey Leonblue. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to experience this problem with a brand new car..!

 

I would strongly advise you to contact an independent technician who can drive the car and write a tech report on as to what the irregularities are. He may not be able to diagnose the problem but that in itself would be able to assist you in taking a legal case against Skoda as, afterall, you spent more than a pretty penny on your new car.

[Leonblue]

Hey Leonblue. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to experience this problem with a brand new car..!

 

I would strongly advise you to contact an independent technician who can drive the car and write a tech report on as to what the irregularities are. He may not be able to diagnose the problem but that in itself would be able to assist you in taking a legal case against Skoda as, afterall, you spent more than a pretty penny on your new car.

I am going to see about booking it into an independent VW specialist and see what they think.

[spacenase]

Is it worth trying another dealer if you have one fairly local?

[Leonblue]

Is it worth trying another dealer if you have one fairly local?

Do you think another dealer will be interested as they are also tied to VW?

[spacenase]

Well, if there is warranty work to be carried out they will get paid for it. Bear in mind that dealers are basically franchises so some are better than others.

 

If you talk about having issues with the service department of your supplying dealer and may switch your servicing to them if they can help you out, you might find they will spend some more time on it.

[ssfan]

The mechanic had thought it felt better after the software upgrade, so they were happy for me to take the car to see how it went. At that point they thought they had cured the problem. I have to admit I was sceptical as to how the software could cause this problem. I realise that I may have given the impression that the car is totally uncontrollable, this is not the case, it just feels as though the steering is slightly loose and not controlling the wheels directly. Not a massive effect, but it certainly does not feel right to me and it's distracting to have to constantly correct the steering.

This is just another thought. The steering system is an electric/mechanical set up, which I assume means some sort of fly by wire is involved. If that is the case a control system is in there somewhere to "control" the front wheels. Like all control systems, it works by feedback. For example, you turn the steering wheel, the system detects there is a difference in angle of the steering wheel and where the front tyres are pointing.  This difference is fed back to the control system that will then turn the front tyres. The most basic type of control system will produce a lag, because the front tyres are always playing catch up. So I assume more sophisticated (higher order) control systems are used. The higher the order, the more "responsive" and accurate the control will be.  However, there is a down side. Higher order systems are more prone to stability problems and if these are not designed properly (or some components are faulty), it can cause oscillation (ie over compensates and then eventually settles down to the correct position).  Worst case scenario is that the oscillation can build up and get bigger and bigger...literally the system becomes out of control. 

 

By the description of the behaviour, it sounds like some over compensation in steering is happening here, so this may point to problems with the control system. 

 

I am not an electrical/electronic engineer and am only theorising based on what little I can remember from the Control lectures at uni more than 30 years ago, so I am not speaking with any authority on the subject. May be there are others who can add to this! I may be totally wrong, of course.  But just something to throw in the pot so it can be checked out!

 

Good luck!

[Leonblue]

This is just another thought. The steering system is an electric/mechanical set up, which I assume means some sort of fly by wire is involved. If that is the case a control system is in there somewhere to "control" the front wheels. Like all control systems, it works by feedback. For example, you turn the steering wheel, the system detects there is a difference in angle of the steering wheel and where the front tyres are pointing.  This difference is fed back to the control system that will then turn the front tyres. The most basic type of control system will produce a lag, because the front tyres are always playing catch up. So I assume more sophisticated (higher order) control systems are used. The higher the order, the more "responsive" and accurate the control will be.  However, there is a down side. Higher order systems are more prone to stability problems and if these are not designed properly (or some components are faulty), it can cause oscillation (ie over compensates and then eventually settles down to the correct position).  Worst case scenario is that the oscillation can build up and get bigger and bigger...literally the system becomes out of control. 

 

By the description of the behaviour, it sounds like some over compensation in steering is happening here, so this may point to problems with the control system. 

 

I am not an electrical/electronic engineer and am only theorising based on what little I can remember from the Control lectures at uni more than 30 years ago, so I am not speaking with any authority on the subject. May be there are others who can add to this! I may be totally wrong, of course.  But just something to throw in the pot so it can be checked out!

 

Good luck!

That sounds fairly reasonable, and incidentally I am an electronic engineer by trade and understand what you mean regarding lag, oscillation, and positive feedback causing instability in a loop. To be honest though it feels as though it's excessive mechanical movement in the suspension rather than the steering system itself. I am starting to suspect the rear axle more and more. The effect I am experiencing is as though something else is trying to steer the car, and that I have to overcome that force to have any effect if that makes sense. Overall the car just feels loose and spongy which is ridiculous as it's a new car. You can also feel the road surface and vibration through the wheel and pedals at times, which to me also points to something loose in the suspension system.  I have spoken to a different dealer today. The service manager made the comment that he could not see how the symptoms I had described could possibly be caused by software. A point I had also made when mine first went in.

Edited 7 September, 2013 by Leonblue

[dc5r666]

Does this happen on every road or only on certain ones that you regularly drive?

 

You could just be "tram-lining"!

 

Your tyres following small ruts/camber changes caused by HGV's/badly laid tarmac.

 

You will notice it happening more if you have come from a car with narrower width tyres to a wider width.

 

If you have already considered this, please dismiss.

[trundlenut]

What size wheels and tyres are fitted? And do those compare to your previous car and any demonstrator you drive before ordering?

We have a scirroco at work with 19 or 19 inch wheels and it tramlines and wiggles around all over the place.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Leonblue]

To be fair I did initially think that tram-lining could be the issue. The first thing I did was to check and alter the tyre pressures but that made no difference. The car is on the standard 17inch wheels with Dunlop Sport Max (I think). I have driven another demonstrator with exactly the same wheels and tyres albeit a 1.6 elegance. My impression was that it felt a lot better then mine.

[Leonblue]

Went to a second dealer where the mechanic took the car around the block, the guy said he could not detect anything. Mind you, he then went on to describe the fact that the steering system is so sensitive that if there was a problem then a warning light would be on so obviously the car must be fine. :wonder: As far as I am concerned it still drives like the chassis is made of blancmange.

This is the guy that also told me off for the car having a low fuel level (30 miles remaining) as it would damage the DPF and not be covered. (discussed as separate thread).

 

I can't say I've been impressed with this car or the dealers so far!

[v0n]

The warranty at this point is covered by manufacturer and can be executed in any Skoda dealership (anywhere in Europe). Take it to different dealer and get them drive it. If they confirm problem, get them to either action the replacement of the parts or sign a paper that states there is a problem so you can reject it at the original point of sale.

Edited 6 October, 2013 by v0n

[cortina63]

Did you buy the car with vw finance,if so inform them that their car that you are paying them foris faulty and say how many times and days its been off,the road,and say you want to reject the car under the sale and supply of goods act,as its not of merchantable quality,as the act deems that vehicle shall be free of any significant defects for a reasonable time,and also inform them that the act is ammended so its up to the dealer to prove that there is no fault from manufacturer and not you the consumer,this is the bigest advantage of finance as you have more redress as the car belongs to the finance company,i went down this route with a scout that I bought,they soon found the fault,i got my solutions rental back for the time of the fault,and free service. You need to have an approach that makes out you know what you are talking about,even like me you dont,hhope this is of help

[Leonblue]

Thanks for the advice, my plan is to get a second opinion and perhaps a report that confirms the problem, then I will take the car back and reject it, including informing VWFS etc. as you have suggested.

[Sheldon.Cooper]

The steering is mechanically connected to the front wheels, it's the law.  The electrical assistance comes from electro magnets which go around the steering shaft (typically around knee level in your car).

 

Software allows the steering to be heavy, light or somewhere in between.  (It's also how the park assist works).

 

If as you steer left it goes slightly right that is something mechanically wrong.  No software update will ever fix that.

 

If cornering is an exceptionally limp affair then the torsion beam rear suspension may be very badly setup, it affects cornering 'feel' alot.  It would also amplify any road imperfections and make the car wallowy when driving 'normally'.

 

With the part shortages all VAG group have experienced you may have a Friday afternoon car there.  I once had an Audi A4 which Audi wanted £440 for a new cat (loss of power) as it had 'twisted internally blocking the exhaust flow' according to the service manager after a 1 minute drive.  a 2p circlip for the VNT mechanism which had fallen off and it was fixed (I found this by opening the bonnet, something Audi didn't do!).  Car dealers completely rely on their computers to tell them what's wrong, there are no real mechanics left at stealerships any more.

 

As previously advised go to an independant specialist, it may cost a few quid but you will know for sure.

[Stuarted]

This sounds as though it might be a matter of wheel alignment (i.e., suspension geometry) - I had this problem once with a brand new car (a Mazda MX-5, not a Skoda).

Does your car show any or all of the following symptoms?
- Floating - steering being too light and lacking 'feel' or feedback
- Skipping - car tends to skip about and lacks drectional stability on broken surfaces
- Tracking - car tends to follow thickly-painted white lines
- Wandering - tends to drift off-line even on straight, flat motorways and requires continual gentle steering corrections
- Lurching - car lurches off-line if you hit a bump in the middle of a long, fast, sweeping bend

If so, slightly mis-aligned suspension may be the problem.  Easy to fix (simply a matter of adjustment) if you go to a specilaist who not only has the right four-wheel alignment equipment and training, but who also has the skill and experience to use it properly.  Tony Bones of Wheels-in-Motion in Chesham is an expert and has done a splendid job on my car  - if that is too far away, he may be able to suggest a suitable specialist nearer to you.

If he checks you car he will give you a print-out showing whether or not the alignment is within the manufacturer's limits.  If it's OK then that is one possible cause eliminated; if it's not OK then you can either ask the supplying dealer to fix it, or get Tony to fix it and ask the dealer to refund the cost.

Just a suggestion.

(I have no connection with Wheels-in-Motion or with Tony Bones except as a satisfied customer.) 

[Leonblue]

There's been a development. I thought my car was getting noticeably worse, with more vibration and even less steering feel, I also felt that the problem was predominantly on the drivers side. Anyway today whilst parked on my mothers drive I had another go at tugging on the drivers side front wheel and found some noticeable movement / slight clonking. I actually had to check the wheel nuts again as it really felt as though the wheel itself was slightly loose. The nuts are fine however. I drove back home carefully and tried the same thing again, however I cannot get it to do it on my drive. The only other factor is that my drive is level, whereas my mothers is sloped.  Now I am certain there is a problem with my car, next step - engineers report, then rejection. This is simply not acceptable on a new car and I am guessing potentially dangerous.

[Stuarted]

If there is looseness / movement of the wheel and the wheel nuts are not loose, it may be play, looseness or some kind of damage to a suspension component.  A wheel alignment check by a competent specialist would confirm or eliminate this.  The company I mentioned has, in the past, supplied expert witness evidence in legal disputes.

Hope you get something sorted!