This thread highlights what I had read in a magazine (CAR I think) - why Subaru have done such a dogs ear of marketing the BRZ. 

 

Everyone is banging on about the GT86 and the adverts are all GT86, but the Subaru is almost identical (but CAR reckoned a bit better - I forget why).

 

As for me, in my lowly Monte CR105, I'm not bored of it, but it is only a functional beast - I don;'t wake up thinking "I can't wait to take that for a spin".  Mind you, the last car I owned that made me feel that was a 1977 Triumph 2500S (straight six, four doors, auto and reasonably quick) - my cars since then have been family wagons!

 

I am not in a position to buy a new car yet (don't know where we'll be in 6 months, what to drive, how much I'm going to lose on the Monte...), but if new, then the Ce'ed GT or Hydundai equivalent look good.  Then again, I may need a bit more room and the weekly game of "what could I get with space, pace and a bit of unusualness" is fun...

For the UK market it was agreed that Toyota got the Majority of Vehicles (Toyota GT86).

& Subaru get the lower percentage. Subaru BRZ.

Toyota to do the greater amount of Marketing for the UK.

Originally said to be 9 GT86 for 1 BRZ  available for the UK.

Different percentages of Toyota to Subaru for different Countries and Markets.

(I got a drive in an Auto GT86 before i could get a chance in a Auto BRZ,)

 

There are a choice of all of them not selling, and Subaru's usually sitting with higher asking prices.

Plenty to choose from around used, & in the various flavours.

 

today on here, 25 BRZ , 23 manual, 2 auto

113 GT86 advertised 73 manual and 40 autos

(one less advertised since posting, now 112)

http://www.autotrader.co.uk

 

Go drive both, different for different reasons.

Looks suit some on one from the other.

Different Steering Feel & Suspension and handling as set up.

I liked the Automatic Gearbox on Both, used the paddles, & preffered the Subarus handling.

Once in the car it was not easy to get out, and no use to me if parked at the kerb side.

But lots of cars are like that when fat and old.

 

george

 

EDIT

PS. lots of interesting new cars coming, Honda Type R, new S3, GTI R etc.

Just the cash needs flashed, buy new, or buy used, it matters if you choose on how they drink fuel when used for playing.

or just as a daily driver.

interesting thread, I like alot of the cars suggested GT86 , octy vRS ect , but is it ONLY me that cant afford them? I simply cannot stretch past £15k...... and there is nothing for that money except a vRS....... thats why I bought another!

The new Civic Type R is something i am very keen to see.  All that car lacked was midrange torque, since the new one is turbo charged thats surely solved now.  I hope they keep the high rev limit as well.

its been spotted testing around the ring

it was with an old RS focus (the 300+bhp "black" one.. is it the 500?) and a megansport (that currently holds the FWD record round there

 

one of their targets was to be the fastest on the ring...

Sharkrider - you're not alone.  We ended up shopping new the last few cars, purely by accident.  Got our Octavia tax free with discount (so rude not to).  Swapped for the Superb at no extra cost (again, made sense).  Then chopped into the Fabia.

 

Now, when we look at options, it gets complicated with the Golf being a company car and the Fabia being on dreaded HP (stupid mistake by me).

 

So often, the best way forward seems to be to spend c.£5k and go crazy on where it takes you - I could get a 300bhp, 4 or 5 door performance car, with FSH and from a "reliable" brand for that money.  I can offset higher running costs against the drop in mileage I need to do and the saving in outlay.

 

For example I could get most big BMWs for that (most 5 series, including M5, 7 series, loads of 3s, even an 840 or 850), Audi S4/6/8, VW performance stuff.  A Phaeton!!  BUT, I remiond myself that buying something a bit bonkers, is more likely to bite me in 6 months, when doubtless I'll have to commute a considerable distance and something breaks on it!!

I think this about sums up todays society.

 

We confused familiarity with boredom.

 

Like having to get a new phone or laptop etc. You are bored of what you have/want something better.

 

With cars no matter what I have had I can never wait to get behind the wheel and drive somewhere. Cars aren't always about having a hoot all the time. Pleasure/fun can be had just through the sensation of driving.

 

Can't think of anything better than jumping into a comfy car, climate set just right, your favourite music on, stick it in drive and just go!

 

I can't see me getting bored even of our 105bhp car with DSG box... I certainly can't imagine getting bored of something with 180bhp.

 

Phil

So many cars to drive - so few years on this planet

Whilst I agree with some of Phi-E's sentiments over the enjoyment of driving for driving' s sake, I tend to feel that the more the better is the right attitude to have towards driving different cars

I have certainly taken that attitude myself over the last 32 years of having a drivers licence

So many cars to drive - so few years on this planet

 

 

Thankfully, we've got Forza Motorsport to help with that...  :p

Familiarity is certainly confused with boredom.

I thought I was bored of my VRS, but then I realised it was just the familiarity of doing the same commutes on the same traffic filled roads.

I went a different route home today and found some empty windy back roads and had a little play!

Sure there are things faster out there, but no matter what car you get there will always be someone with something faster!

I had fun and it reminded me of all the good qualities this car has to offer!

:-)

Familiarity is certainly confused with boredom.I thought I was bored of my VRS, but then I realised it was just the familiarity of doing the same commutes on the same traffic filled roads.I went a different route home today and found some empty windy back roads and had a little play!Sure there are things faster out there, but no matter what car you get there will always be someone with something faster!I had fun and it reminded me of all the good qualities this car has to offer! :-)

Good point, I tend to drive the same routes day in day out and the only real variety I get is a subtle difference in urban roads or stretches of dual carriageway so nothing particularly exciting. I really must get out and explore more, but round by me many of the 'fun' roads now have ridiculouslys low limits, solid white lines or no overtaking stretches or are just clogged up with traffic!

Sharkrider,

I know what you are saying, I am constantly amazed at how often some people seem to change there cars and not just between low end things but chopping from relatively new high end cars which I can only assume means they are losing significant amounts of money on, or maybe I am misunderstanding how things work. Maybe as said before is is due to the availability of finance or maybe I am in the wrong job but Like you I can't afford to go beyond the £15k ish level and looking at my needs can't justify it either.

Any one else got bored of their mk2 vrs? Iv lasted 2 years and now I'm really bored of it!

I had a Mazda rx8 before the vrs which was great fun but a pain in the arse and wallet! I would never have had an auto before but loved the fabia vrs when I saw it advertised, when they came out so decided that the dsg would be ok to live with to have such a cool car! But now the novelty has gone!

So Iv been looking at all sorts of cars to replace the fabia and almost set myself to a Subaru or gt86. then... I saw the Octavia vrs .... Omg Skodas marketing dept have done it again Iv seen the advert and instantly want one! Iv got the test drive booked for Saturday and got insurance quotes £200+ cheaper than my fabia vrs! Any one else in this situation? Anyone else tried the octy vrs?

 

Have you removed the 25 Kgs of ballast weight from under the bumper on the port side of the car?  If you carry stuff in the boot, I carry full sized spare, jack etc so reckon I do not need the ballast weight.  Wish I had gone for lowering from new and I am still learning a year on how to get the best out of the car which keeps it interesting for me.  Sports mode just over-revs it, Normal it is bogged down so use tiptronic and paddles to get it in the right gear ie around 4k revs on the tacho and manage from there with the manual change inputs paddles or stick, seems much better.

 

As the Fabia VRS is to be discontinued next year and mine will need changing as will have done more the 60k miles.  Expect they will drop something interesting in to the Rapid Sportback and that will take on the mantle.  

Although I'm perfectly happy with the car after 2 years of ownership, I've thought about it a couple of times. The thing is, If I was to spend some cash again I could only justify it by going to significantly higher horsepower and performance. I don't see the point in losing say 10-15k by trading my vrs for say a GT86 / Golf GTI / Octavia vRS / Focus RS just to go around 220-250hp and get practically just a little more real-life performance, so most cars already mentioned in this thread are already ruled out from me.

 

What I would like is the new M135i though. Performance/handling wise it's only a step behind that 1M beast, but at the same time way more practical and comfortable for everyday use which is what my car should primarily be about. Plus I'm betting there's some potential in that 2.9l engine. Of course, at something around 2.5 times the price of the vRS it's not exactly a direct comparison...

 

You don't need more horsepower for more fun, better handling and feel are just as important on the road. It's why cars like the Fiesta ST, BRZ/GT86 and M135i are getting all the press.

 

The M135i is only 1.7 times more expensive than the vRS so a relative bargain. £17000 v £30000 roughly. 

The 3.0 straight six in the M135i makes 360-380bhp with a remap. The only worry is the gearboxes, both the manual and auto are rated at 450NM which is OK for the standard 320bhp engine but most of the remaps exceed the gearboxes rating by some margin.

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by logiclee

The guy up my jacksy last night in his 07 RS4 with 414 BHP 0-62 4.6 seconds, 155 mph, 430Nm etc

 & VED £490 a year had nothing to prove,

 he would get passed when the cars in front moved.

 

He was only upset i think because we all passed him as he tootled up the inside lane.

 

He never got the clue the first time that he was too close for my comfort, when i washed my windscreen a few times. and he needed to put his wipers on.

So time comes and passed he went.

Then pulled away, but was just a pest, because then he was back to his inside lane speed,

But not moving to the inside, he was the 'Road Captain'.

 

so passed we went,  then he again appeared to disliked being passed,

Then obviously after 2 or 3 passes and him doing his hard accelerations (demonstrations of how fast his car was)

decided that he could not afford the 15 mpg or what ever so just pulled into the inside and there he stayed,

as we proceeded up the road. He proved his point, he bought an expensive car (cheap enough used if anyone wants one)

that either he can not afford the fuel for,  but does not like being overtaken.  or just he is a sensible driver.

But Sensible drivers do not Tailgate usually.

 

He could have been embarrassed that when he gave it some, the other cars stayed with him until he obviously thought better,

or maybe remembered he needed new Catyaltics.

 

All 70 mph, 80 or 90 plus is the same, some vehicles do 50-110 better than others,

but basically we have National Speed limits and sometimes the car that feels fast is more fun than the one that is fast.

Especially when you can go twice as far for the same amount of fuel bought as the fast one when doing the same speeds.

 

re Good Handling,

Rear Wheel Drive, BRZ/GT86, BMW M135i,  & the likes,

best taken for a drive on the tyres they come fitted with in the wet or cold.

*Switch off the electrics if you dare.*

Driving up the road behind and watching some car that seems to be driven by a stunt driver, or worse meeting one coming towards you just looks odd in these times.

You get that sort of fun in any Rear Wheel Drive car or van from some place for £500.

Hanging tails out and needing to correct them is an acquired taste.

 I Have a RWD 92 bhp Suzuki Jimny i can do that in any day, and it is much fun for much cheapness.

Just add slide about tyres.

 

george

You don't need more horsepower for more fun, better handling and feel are just as important on the road. It's why cars like the Fiesta ST, BRZ/GT86 and M135i are getting all the press.

 

The M135i is only 1.7 times more expensive than the vRS so a relative bargain. £17000 v £30000 roughly. 

The 3.0 straight six in the M135i makes 360-380bhp with a remap. The only worry is the gearboxes, both the manual and auto are rated at 450NM which is OK for the standard 320bhp engine but most of the remaps exceed the gearboxes rating by some margin.

 

Cheers

Lee

 

 

Not necessarily, I didn't mean that. But given the rarb and springs upgrades on mine I feel pretty covered for now and that's why I think it would take a lot of money to get to a really different level from a suspension-modified vRS. Performance-wise, there have certainly been moments I've felt I could go faster If I had the extra power, empty highways around here help in that. Maybe a remap could provide me just that, but I'm not yet convinced I can safely go down that road, which is a shame as almost every review on Stage 1 maps is saying it's actually more than the additional 25hp suggest...

 

An M135i, specced as I'd want it (metal blue - leather seats - navi - HK sound system etc.) is hardly less than £ 40K around here so not really a 1.7 ratio (unfortunately...)

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by newbie69

You don't need to slide a RWD car to get the fun out of the handling, it's about the balance, the 50/50 weight distribution, the uncorrupted steering. You only need to take a moderately sporty BMW, MX5, RX8, GT86, BRZ etc on a blast out around country roads to put a smile on your face. It's about fluidity, balance and feel, some fwd cars get close to that, the Fiesta ST being one, a standard Fabia vRS is quite a way off (IMO). It has little steering feel, feels nose heavy, rolls in corners yet bumps and crashes on bumpy straights.

 

Newbie,

Leather is standard on the M135i but Nav is a rip off especially if you go for the Pro Nav at nearly £2k.  Business Nav has come down to £1k recently from £1.5k and it's rumoured to be dropping to £500 soon to compete with Merc's system. HK sound is nice but IMO it's not that much better than the £295 BMW Advanced Loudspeaker system which gives you an external amp, two 8" subs under the front seats and an extra mid driver in the dashboard.

Things start getting expensive if you add, adaptive dampers, drivers comfort pack, interior comfort packs, sport auto, adaptive lights etc. etc.

You can soon get a 116i up to 30k if you're not careful. 

The sports seats are superb, you get the usual seat adjustment plus seat base angle and seat base length plus the side bolster inflate to squeeze you. You don't get 4 way electric lumber though, that's a £235 option but is a must IMO. 15% discount should be your starting point on a 1 series.

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by logiclee

I agree that the vRS as standard is pretty poor in handling, stroke me quite hard during the first weeks of ownership. With those simple and relatively cheap upgrades, it may still not transform in a GT-86, however it's tons more entertaining when driven brisky. I never said fun is only in sliding RWDs I just expressed my thoughts about where I would like to go next. There are some great handling FWDs out there, at least below 250hp anyway. Thing is I would like something significantly more powerful than my stock-performance vRS (250+ hp) and there, rear or all-wheel drive is the way to go for my taste.

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by newbie69

 I never said fun is only in sliding RWDs 

 

I know you didn't, that was a reply to George's comments in the post before yours.

 

Cheers

Lee

A good balanced rear wheel drive modern car is actually so well behaved on good surfaces & poor that at more than 50% above UK National speed limits you just drive it.

You drive to the conditions, applicable power, tyres for the conditions, they are just cars.

 

Lots of BMW drivers have not a clue which are the drive wheels until they have no drive.

As you see when they put Snow Socks on the Front Wheels and it is not a Front or AWD.

 

Most of them are just safe cars, the GT86/BRZ is worth taking for a drive, good surfaces, nipping along,

many put in the car and asked to drive it would have no idea if a Pusher or a Puller.

(GT86/BRZ got Primacy HP to make the Press boys first pay attention then people spending their own money to buy daily drivers put some safer and more appropriate tyres on.)

 

With most BMW's they are just sold from the factory to be a safe mode of transport..

You leave the car at Factory Settings, suspension, steering etc, do not switch off any Electric Aids, you just drive. 

Pretty ordinary actually. If you want the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' experience, then switch things off.

You have to be having a hooly before its obvious which wheels are there for providing traction and forward motion.

 

george

All new BMW's have at least three levels of traction/stability settings.

 

On standard setting DSC you are allowed no wheelspin, no understeer and no oversteer.

 

The next setting is DTC, this mode allows some wheelspin and some oversteer but won't allow you to do a full drift or spin. Really designed for loose surfaces and snow where you get better traction with some slip.

 

When DSC is turned fully off you are allowed full wheelspin and full oversteer but on models without a mechanical limited slip diff you get ABD-Sport Electronic limited slip diff in DSC -Off mode.

 

Gets even more complex with "Driving Experience Control".

In Eco Pro mode you can only have DSC.

In Comfort mode (Default) you can have any of the traction settings but in DSC off mode you get Sport steering feel instead of Comfort

In Sport mode you can only have DSC but you get Sport throttle response, Sport Suspension and Sport Steering Feel.

In Sport+ mode you can only have DTC but you get Sport throttle response, Sport Suspension and Sport Steering Feel.

Select DSC-Off and you default to Comfort throttle response, Comfort Suspension and Sport Steering.

 

Some models allow you to knock back some of the Sport settings in Sport and Sport+

 

As you say some (Including my wife) will never venture out of the default Comfort with DSC. She does however appreciate how well it drives though, I follow her sometimes and she certainly maintains some speed through the twisties.

 

DSC certainly saves crap drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQSdxACLDxI

 

The BRZ was on our radar until we saw the joke rear seats. 2+2 is being very generous. I've owned Impreza's before and a Series McRae, quite fancied a BRZ but we need useable rear seats.

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 31 August, 201312 yr by logiclee

I've finally taken the plunge to indulge my BMW and rear-drive itch! Ordered a 120d M-sport with the 8-spd sport-auto should be here in a couple of weeks and I can't wait! Was very very close to ordering an M135i but worries re the fuel economy gave me cold feet in the end. I had 2 test drives in it - 18mpg driven quick and just 22mpg when driven normally.....

Discounts on the 1-series are very good at the moment, quite easy to get 15-18% off with abit of light haggling.

In the end I felt the 120d with 0-60 in 7.1s and ooodles of midrange grunt should keep me happy, especially with the RWD and a potential 60mpg factored in. 'Cake' and 'Eat' spring to mind.

Still keeping the Furby vRS for a little while longer tho as the Wifesters commuter tool as its nearly all paid off. Maybe next year if the 5-6k discounts are still rolling I'll let her have the 120d and trade the Furby for that juicy M135i after all.... :-)

the 8-speed box is supposed to be awsome...

Well the test drive went well! The Octy vrs is an impressive bit of kit, if the finances look viable il be ordering a manual petrol vrs octy next week and saying bye to the fabia!

the 8-speed box is supposed to be awsome...

 

I've owned 14 automatic cars including two smg style automatic manuals, 3,4,5,6,and 8 speed conventional autos and 3 DSG's (Wet and dry clutch) I still have a 6 speed wet clutch DSG and a 7 Speed dry clutch DSG.

 

The ZF 8 Speed box is in a league of it's own,

 

Cheers

Lee

the 8-speed box is supposed to be awsome...

It's an absolute peach mate. Changes feel as quick as the DSG but to me seems even smoother especially between 1st-2nd. Best box I have driven. The paddles feel very niiiice beneath the fingertips too lol!