I don't have direct Mk2 vRS experience, but that list of upgrades transfers to any car really

 

I'd go for dampers as well.

You don't need a bigger intercooler in the winter or without stage 2, and I can make my (currently) standard brakes work on a track! So dampers :p

Loving the work done so far

You don't need a bigger intercooler in the winter or without stage 2, and I can make my (currently) standard brakes work on a track! So dampers :p

I see what you are doing! Trying to use logic to win me over eh?

I particularly like the "don't need a bigger intercooler in the winter" line :yes:

C'mon, everybody loves big calipers and disks.

..........shuffles off in preparation to buy some dampers

Brakes all day long!!  The brakes only feel good until you have tried something better.  If you havent experienced a good brake upgrade then you dont know what your missing out on!

 

My car handled like a dream with just the springs and other mods.  I was going to add the dampers last once everything else had been done

You don't need a bigger intercooler in the winter or without stage 2

 

Id agree with that

I was tempted the most by the R32 Brake Kit and it is sat in my mates garage, just needs a refurb, painted red and kitted out with some nice new 334mm discs and performance pads.

On the intercooler, it's not about needing it now, it's more about buying ahead in prep of stage 2, I don't just want to throw a downpipe on there and map it, I want to support the gains with good hardware. I'll probably need to bring stage 2 together in stages as doing it as I want to in one lump will be a big hit.

And the intercooler will do no harm in the meantime.

Id agree with that

It would be a struggle to argue against it

Hmmmm possible issue with the R32 twinpot calipers being a tad too chunky to go behind my Gigaro's

I wouldn't really want to add the extra weight of the R32 kit TBH. Plus the piston setup means you could do better, while maintaining a smaller sized disc. Bigger isn't always better, it's just heavier

 

I wonder if anyone has done a NQSBBK on the Mk2? There's info around on here about the fitment to the Octy Mk2, but obviously you have a PCD difference there, to start with.

I wouldn't really want to add the extra weight of the R32 kit TBH. Plus the piston setup means you could do better

Interested to hear why you wouldn't be keen on the R32 twin piston setup?

No sarcasm at all, genuinely happy to take some advice, I had believed the overall ratios were acceptable for use on the Fabia but that is just from t'interweb trawling.

Do you think the 312/256mm is a better path, in the absence of a 323mm LCR type setup coming available at an acceptable/not inflated price.

Thoughts on these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRONT-PORSCHE-BOXSTER-S-911-C2S-CALIPERS-996-351-425-426-VAG-ADAPTORS-/321226341170

Interested to hear why you wouldn't be keen on the R32 twin piston setup?

No sarcasm at all, genuinely happy to take some advice, I had believed the overall ratios were acceptable for use on the Fabia but that is just from t'interweb trawling.

Do you think the 312/256mm is a better path, in the absence of a 323mm LCR type setup coming available at an acceptable/not inflated price.

 

If it were me, I'd look at whether there was a NQSBBK (Not Quite So Big Break Kit) available for a 5x100 setup. I believe those eBay ones could be used as part of that, yes.

 

If I was looking at an improvement in braking performance, I would be looking for something superior to a twin-pot setup, myself. You have the surface area of the disk, but also the amount of work that can be exerted onto the disk surface by the brake piston(s). So with the NQSBBK type setup, what you have in effect is more work being done by the brake pistons, over a smaller surface - compared with a setup such as the R32 setup you're thinking of.

As i said earlier, just because they work on the Mk5 GTI platform it doent mean they will work on the Mk2 Fabia platform.  Ill look into the piston CSA later n today and compare them for you.  Custom caliper carriers will be required though, i might be able to point you towards someone who can offer these as well.

If it were me, I'd look at whether there was a NQSBBK (Not Quite So Big Break Kit) available for a 5x100 setup. I believe those eBay ones could be used as part of that, yes.

 

If I was looking at an improvement in braking performance, I would be looking for something superior to a twin-pot setup, myself. You have the surface area of the disk, but also the amount of work that can be exerted onto the disk surface by the brake piston(s). So with the NQSBBK type setup, what you have in effect is more work being done by the brake pistons, over a smaller surface - compared with a setup such as the R32 setup you're thinking of.

 

But on the other hand, you have more braking torque available with the larger disc and higher thermal capacity.

 

6 and two 3's!!

Hmmm, don't agree with that logic I'm afraid.

 

We'll probably have to agree to differ....

Hmmm, don't agree with that logic I'm afraid.

 

 

Im interested why?  Its not so much logic, itss basically simple physics and there is literature literally everywhere backing this up.

 

A larger disc with more mass has the capacity to dissipate heat much more effectively.  Smaller brake setups which retain more heat require high temp pads to operate effectively, however potentially sacrifice cold bite.  A large disc setup which runs cooler due to superior heat dissipation properties allows you to use a pad setup that will work better from cold and will not need to operate at silly temps.  

 

Moving the caliper/pad gripping surface further away from the hub means that you have more torque/leverage.  So basically you can achieve the same level of retardation but using less brake pedal/effort.  Like using a larger wrench to undo a bolt.

 

The downsides to a larger disc setup is the impact of unsprung weight on the handling/ride.

Is there any argument to say (other than weight and squeezing them under my oem wheels which I understand) that the R32 Twinpots would not be a step up from 312mm single piston calipers? Albeit potentially not as good as other options.

My issue is that between some Golf/Octy/Other Vag 312mm (which might not be the worst option) and a serious BBK from someone like Tarox the only middle ground which seems to get the seal of approval is LCR 323mm Brembo 4 pots which as has been mentioned before come with hefty 'scene tax' and/or don't come up that often.

I love the idea of a NQSBBK and reading threads like Beti the 320bhp Yeti it sounds like they really do the job, my friend who is v active with the R32OC has looked at 996 Porsche Calipers for Mk4 Golf which might hint of the possibility of fitting these with adapter carriers to a 5j fabia and he is also the same chap with a spare set of R32 Twinpots meaning they would come to me at a liveable cost.

Im interested why?  Its not so much logic, itss basically simple physics and there is literature literally everywhere backing this up.

 

It's your perceived logic that the heat dissipation issue makes enough difference to mean the twin-pot R32 setup is a superior choice, compared with a lighter brake setup with a smaller disc, but being acted upon by a 4 or 6 pot setup.

 

As for leverage, point taken - if you're comparing like with like. But we're not. With a twin pot setup it could be considered that you have two levers acting. So say you have a 20mm leverage advantage with the R32 setup and it's larger disc and pad area; however, you have more levers acting with a NQSBBK - a minimum of two more. So if you multiply the total amount of available leverage....

 

As I say I don't really want to get into a fully fledged debate about this. I'm not out to convert people - different people have different approaches, and different ways of doing things - that's fully accepted and understood.

id would be genuinely shocked if they were not a massive step up from the 312mm single pot option.  tbh i would also be shocked if (like for like pads) that they were not a step up from a brembo 4 pots on the 312mm setup.  Having driven a Mk4 R32 i can confirm the brakes on that car were very good and that's considering it weighs around 300kg more than the Fabia!!

 

Just been looking through the NQSBBK threads on the other forum, where I was asking Qs about them for use on my Fabia a couple years back.  The issue was not the piston CSA/master cylinder, but the disc thickness was not correct for the caliper, the only option with the Boxter/911 calipers was to go for it with a larger disc setup. 

but being acted upon by a 4 or 6 pot setup.

 

 

But having 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 pots wont make a make a huge difference, if i did we would all be driving around in tarox 10 pots!!  I had the 6 pots Tarox kit on mine.  I tried an Brembo GT 4 pot/323mm kit on a friends Ibiza and it was better than my setup but mine did feel more progressive though.  Its all to do with how the caliper pistons match with the master cylinder.

 

Also what about the old Mk4 R32 with 323mm twinpots which aren't as good as the Mk5 R32 which has 345m single pots?

id would be genuinely shocked if they were not a massive step up from the 312mm single pot option.  tbh i would also be shocked if (like for like pads) that they were not a step up from a brembo 4 pots on the 312mm setup.  Having driven a Mk4 R32 i can confirm the brakes on that car were very good and that's considering it weighs around 300kg more than the Fabia!!

 

Just been looking through the NQSBBK threads on the other forum, where I was asking Qs about them for use on my Fabia a couple years back.  The issue was not the piston CSA/master cylinder, but the disc thickness was not correct for the caliper, the only option with the Boxter/911 calipers was to go for it with a larger disc setup.

Thanks Sy, my mates R32 runs at around 265bhp and yes weighs 1500kg, he has put EBC Redstuff on for the winter and coming off a motorway slip his brakes feel like they would put me through the windscreen and having driven it they felt really nice.

On the differing opinions on the twinpot -> morepot thinking do the Twinpots not have larger pistons than the 4 pots? As a complete layperson conducting know-nothing guess work does this not mean we are just talking about distribution of the same amount of force. Something like master cylinder can supply X amount of force which is then divided and applied to the disc either by 1,2,4,6 or 8 depending on your caliper? I see that the two R32 pistons come from one single side on the caliper whereas the brembos look to have two pistons per side clamping.

The options I had seen on the 996 calipers for Mk4 platform were more along the lines of 323mm or 330mm discs rather than a true NQSBBK, this would maybe back up what you say on the thickness.

I know you guys don't see eye to eye on this but I will say thank you to both for trying to help me out with this.

Very interesting stuff

Thanks Sy, my mates R32 runs at around 265bhp and yes weighs 1500kg, he has put EBC Redstuff on for the winter and coming off a motorway slip his brakes feel like they would put me through the windscreen and having driven it they felt really nice.

On the differing opinions on the twinpot -> morepot thinking do the Twinpots not have larger pistons than the 4 pots? As a complete layperson conducting know-nothing guess work does this not mean we are just talking about distribution of the same amount of force. Something like master cylinder can supply X amount of force which is then divided and applied to the disc either by 1,2,4,6 or 8 depending on your caliper? I see that the two R32 pistons come from one single side on the caliper whereas the brembos look to have two pistons per side clamping.

 

 

the total piston CSA will be similar between them all.  The more pistons in the caliper the smaller they will be.  The limitation as i said before is the master cylinder. 

 

 

 

The options I had seen on the 996 calipers for Mk4 platform were more along the lines of 323mm or 330mm discs rather than a true NQSBBK, this would maybe back up what you say on the thickness.

 

 

 

Thats the exact setup that i was recommended by Dave @ VAGBremtechnik to go for.  Discs are equivalent size, but caliper wise compared with the twinpot, the brembos have a a more even clamping force, much wider market for pad availability, and will be stiffer and MUCH lighter which will cancel out the additional weight of the discs.

 

For instance my Tarox 323mm 6 pot/323mm setup weighed 1kg less than the stock 288/single piston setup.  The R32 Twinpot will be a fair amount heavier, however id imagine it will be cheaper than the 911 brembos.  pPlus the twinpots will look OEM which is awesome for stealth setups.

 

 

I know you guys don't see eye to eye on this but I will say thank you to both for trying to help me out with this.

 

 

 

Healthy discussion is all it is. 

But having 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 pots wont make a make a huge difference, if i did we would all be driving around in tarox 10 pots!!  I had the 6 pots Tarox kit on mine.  I tried an Brembo GT 4 pot/323mm kit on a friends Ibiza and it was better than my setup but mine did feel more progressive though.  Its all to do with how the caliper pistons match with the master cylinder.

 

Also what about the old Mk4 R32 with 323mm twinpots which aren't as good as the Mk5 R32 which has 345m single pots?

Talking to my friend with mk4 R32 (his set up is some expensive but OEM 334mm drilled and grooved floating discs)he believes that there was a cost saving exercise done on the brakes on the Mk5 so the discs are bigger but are std solid vented 345mm and singlepot. He believes his brakes are better than the Mk5. But then again he does love his Mk4

Ive driven both cars.  Im sure it is to do with cost as well, but IMO the Mk5 brakes are definitely better just as the rest of the Mk5 is infinitely better than the Mk4 (dont tell him that though lol)