Hi guys, I've been thinking on this one for a while and finally got the chance to get some dealer quotes together this week but I thought Id throw this out into the Octy Mk3 section as its what I've been considering up until now and value your opinion. 

 

Bit of background so hopefully you realise I'm a Skoda guy at heart and not just posting this to stir up any arguments (although a varied but constructive thread is always my favourite type tbh!) I've had three Skoda's now and liked every one of them to differing degrees. Mk1 Octy 4x4 1.8T - massively under rated car and one which I miss to this day. Mk2 Octy VRS estate - meh but it did most things better than average. My current Yeti - what can I say! :love:

 

Anyway, so previously I've always actually considered the Seat equivalent as the underdog, usually down to the interiors and specifically the non textured large areas or drab grey plastic that were around the cabin, usually right in front of you on the centre console! Nine times out of ten I've preferred the exterior styling however.

 

Now it strikes me that the interiors have moved on massively (although I still think they are the weakest offering of the four current MQB platform cars) they seem to be better equipped as standard and I'm finding the new, soon to be launched Leon ST (estate to most people!) a very nice looking bit of kit with almost as much boot space as the new Octavia (590 litres v's 610 litres). One reason I never bought a Superb was that it was just that little bit on the big side for my needs. Big boot - very useful. Rear cabin space to rival a LWB A8 - not needed in reality. The Octavia has grown to almost similar proportions so while it may occasionally be nice to have, 99% of the time this additional space offered by the Octavia's extended MQB platform will be wasted on me and the family. I'd ideally like to have 500+ litres of boot space for the family summer holidays into Europe.

 

So the Leon ST seems to tick a lot of boxes for me AND (and this si the crux of this post, imo...) offer better value for money. Bare in mind that Seat do want 4.9% for their PCP rate and Skoda are offering 0% across the board but I still say for the money, the Leon is better value in terms of what you get for the cash now....

 

Spec for money wise I'm looking at:

 

Leon 1.4TSi 140bhp FR ST (mouthful or what!)

 

It comes standard with items such as electrically folding mirrors, Bluetooth with streaming, 17" alloys (don't want bigger), dark tinted rear windows, front sports seats with leather bolsters, lumbar support on both seats, dual zone climate control, cruise control, LED tail lamps, front fogs with cornering function, front and rear parking sensors, Ambient lighting and footwell illumination, TPM, Hill hold control, XDS, sports suspension etc etc. Currently and until the end of the year, Seat UK are also offering the £2,000 technology pack items for free so add to that list, full LED headlamps, 5.8" touchscreen sat nav (I'm pretty sure its the equivalent of Amundsen) and DAB radio. Not bad for free.

 

So then optioned up with:

Metallic paint

Panoramic sunroof (same as the item in the Octavia estate/Yeti)

Space Saver spare

LED interior pack

Convenience pack (consisting of auto dim rear mirror, auto lights and wipers)

Alcantara sports seats

10 speaker sound system inc sub in wheel well and centre dash speaker and amp

rear side airbag

winter pack (consisting of heated front seats, headlamp washers and heated nozzles)

 

Oh and there's also a £1000 deposit contribution from Seat UK until end of the year!

 

So, for all that little lot its a total price of £21031.40 via DTD and a dealer that's willing to match it pound for pound! So is it just me or does that represent better value for money than the equivalent Octavia 1.4TSi Elegance estate?

 

I'm genuinely interested in peoples view and specifically interested if you considered the Leon but went with the Octy in the end.

Depreciation will be bad I would of thought

I'm not sure it is that much better value. If you try and match specs exactly you'll find the FR misses some things the Elegance has as standard. The Leon ends up a little cheaper, but by the time you include interest costs on their finance deals it's basically the same total cost.

Depreciation will be bad I would of thought

That's true, id expect the Leon to suffer more than the Octavia and you'll be paying for the servicing of the Seat over the three years also.

I'm not sure it is that much better value. If you try and match specs exactly you'll find the FR misses some things the Elegance has as standard. The Leon ends up a little cheaper, but by the time you include interest costs on their finance deals it's basically the same total cost.

Ok, that's interesting, maybe for me its more about getting the above spec for a smidge over £300 a month over three years and with less than a 3.5k deposit. What items come on an Elegance that aren't in the FR spec, do you know off hand?

 

Oh and I've managed to negotiate a 7.1% price reduction on a Skoda Elegance 1.4TSi estate so need to do the sums on the overall amount paid over the three years... im guessing you may well be right about the overall figure.

I did consider the Leon and had a good look when I took my young cousin to buy his Ibiza but for me the extra size of the Octavia was a big lean towards the Skoda and then the 0% and free servicing sealed the deal.

Plus although this is my first VRS I've always been a fan as I love it's sporty but understated looks. I find it a little less 'look at me' than the Seat but that is just my preference. Saying that though if there was no Octavia VRS I think the Leon ST would of been my top pick.

I looked at the Leon to replace my FL vrs.

No matter how much I tried to like the Leon I always came back to the Skoda.

I always try to view cars when they are NOT in the showroom. Ie: out on the road, with a little bit of traffic dirt and so on, and in a variety of colours. IN the case of the Leon, it looked great in the showroom, but rather bland in the real life situation.........almost Peugeot like even!

In the end, I chose another Skoda!

Ok, that's interesting, maybe for me its more about getting the above spec for a smidge over £300 a month over three years and with less than a 3.5k deposit. What items come on an Elegance that aren't in the FR spec, do you know off hand?

 

Oh and I've managed to negotiate a 7.1% price reduction on a Skoda Elegance 1.4TSi estate so need to do the sums on the overall amount paid over the three years... im guessing you may well be right about the overall figure.

Half leather seats and the tiredness recognition system are a couple that spring to mind.

I looked at the Leon to replace my FL vrs.

No matter how much I tried to like the Leon I always came back to the Skoda.

I always try to view cars when they are NOT in the showroom. Ie: out on the road, with a little bit of traffic dirt and so on, and in a variety of colours. IN the case of the Leon, it looked great in the showroom, but rather bland in the real life situation.........almost Peugeot like even!

In the end, I chose another Skoda!

Hmm, styling wise, im quite a fan tbh.

 

Half leather seats and the tiredness recognition system are a couple that spring to mind.

Half leather sports seats are standard you can upgrade to full leather on the Leon. Tiredness recognition system and rear seatbelt warning system is just £100 extra but I take your point; one offers things the other doesn't and vice versa.

As a company car driver, the monthly rates for a Leon are lower than those of an Octavia. For example, on my current company car band I can select a Octavia 2.0 CR150 SE with a few extras, however, for the same cost I can choose a Leon FR 184 with metallic paint.

 

The Octy II VRS diesel used to be within my reach, however, the mark 3 version is now too expensive, which is a real shame.

 

I'd also consider a Leon ST as a cheaper, but better equipped alternative to a Octy III Estate. I mean, come on Skoda...why is cruise control still an optional extra on on S and SE models?

someone at work just got a leon fr and I have picked up my rs this week. I found the fr to be a more underwhelming place to be and I am glad I got the skoda as I was starting to get swayed by the leon exterior.

Half leather sports seats are standard you can upgrade to full leather on the Leon. Tiredness recognition system and rear seatbelt warning system is just £100 extra but I take your point; one offers things the other doesn't and vice versa.

The seats are a £400 option on the configurator.

You also can't get a light coloured interior or heated screen.

On the other hand you can't get led headlights on the skoda.

The seats are a £400 option on the configurator.

You also can't get a light coloured interior or heated screen.

On the other hand you can't get led headlights on the skoda.

No, Im pretty sure on the FR you get the half leather sports seats as standard. The £400 option is to have alcantara and leather sports seats (so the cloth basically gets replaced with alcantara) and theres then a further option of full leather sports seats for something like 1k. (that's how a dealer explained it to me earlier today anyway).

If you call around, in my limited experience in Kent, some Seat dealers will be able to negotiate prices at DTD levels, two of them also mentioned alternative financing packages from VAG group including 0% APR HP when paired with bigger deposit/trade in. Oh, and get technology pack.

Edited 25 October, 201312 yr by v0n

What about dealer experience? Down in east kent the Seat dealer is tin pot experience squeezed between a citroen and jaguar dealer. Don't get me wrong I don't mind a bit of old school dealer but we don't even get a small showroom to sample the cars!! So what about the Seat dealers your way?

No neither of your options have quattro

 

Skoda for me though; Seat do nice exteriors but bland interiors as a rule.

 

 

TP

This is a similar dilemma I'm having. Got to be honest and say that at the moment I'm leaning towards the Leon, for the following reasons:

 

1. Mk3 vRS is not a huge improvement over the Mk2. Leon is a massive improvement over the Mk2 and comes with some suspension too!

2. You can get over 20% discount on the Leon as opposed to about 8 to 10% for the Octavia.

3. I no longer have the need for the space that the vRS offers (A6 estate for tip runs available)

4. vRS is about £1.5K to £2K more expensive and I'm looking to buy a third car for sunny days and weekends, so may prefer to put extra pennies to that rather than our 2nd car.

5. I've had two vRS diesel estates already.

 

In truth I think the new Octavia is a nice looking car, but my test drive in a VRS TSI dsg left me a bit underwhelmed.

 

And actually when I started out on this car change project I was pretty sure I'd end up with a Golf GTD, but it's dropped out of the running for being nearly as expensive as the A3 Sportback, but no where near as nice.

 

Oh, and in answer to the OP's question, I think the answer maybe "yes", but only if you don't need the Octavia's space. If you do, then the Octavia is the only (current) MQB car that provides that space.

Like most threads on this site, this debate is all down to personal preferences and what options you really need. Having owned mk2 & mk3 variants of both leon fr and octy vrs I have the following observations:

1. I ordered mk3 vrs without seeing one in the flesh or driving - initially I was a little worried that I may have bought the wrong car. However, After driving the new vrs for just over a week I am very impressed. The drive is far more refined - ride quality is better, cabin is very quiet, power delivery is really smooth (tdi) and the interior is a massive improvement especially the steering wheel controls. Unfortunately to spec it up with the options I wanted it added over 1k to list price.

2. Leon is a great car too and is well kitted out in terms of standard kit and the tech pack is the icing on the cake. The leon feels lighter and therefore more nimble than the octy on turn in. However, the suspension is much harder and you feel every bump (both cars on 18s). Seat also on variable servicing too at a similar cost to Skoda.

Can't fault either car - both are excellent value for money but are packaged differently.

Edited 25 October, 201312 yr by Black_Sheep

Seat dealer sales counter experience was terrible so far (but again, limited to just a few and I'm in relaxed pre-shopping stage). Very little info, you practically tell them what car has and you want rather than they pitching. But then again, my Skoda dealer experience is terrible as well.

In 2010 I bought my car in Epsom, because local dealerships were either unreliable, unwilling or continuously wasted my time and delaying things, probably expecting for certain offers to end (they never did, for years, it turned out).

I currently travel 35 miles from Medway, bypassing several dealers on my way because just about any of them, except for one crew 35 miles and three dealerships away, were actively unwilling to fix faults under warranty (many attempted to charge me for "diagnosing" faults under warranty, faults I often precisely investigated and pointed, at times with printouts of VAG bulletins and/or video evidence just so they didn't fob me off. Never encountered it with any other brand before, but I got used to it. And Almost all of the faults my car suffered from turned out to be typical, well documented problems for that generation.

My engine in a 3.5 years old Octavia now requires 2.5k rebuild. Irreversible damage to piston rings and internals which occurred purely due to Skoda UK and dealer playing ping pong of "see no evil, hear no evil" and repeatedly advising me to continue driving the car with diagnosed problem (paid for diagnostics and tests from my own pocket, as the dealer refused to investigate at their own expense and time, all while car was still under warranty). Wasn't considered a problem until we reached the point where the car was smoking oil through exhaust at the pace of over 1 litre every 1000 miles. the norm is 1 litre every 1000 miles in Skoda UK manual, everywhere else in Europe it's about a quarter of that every 1000km). Consider entire sump of "long life" gone up in the air every 7-8 weeks for me a "norm". Several months later, it now smokes 1 litre every 500 miles and the repair is about to be finally actioned (at 90% Skoda/Skoda UK/dealer shared expense). Reason for delay? Service desk at the dealer tried to fend it off as "cannot be done under manufacturers warranty as it was within (ridiculously high) norm during last check" and "cannot be done under extended warranty since the problem of it needing oil started while car was under manufacturers warranty. So it is now classed as a "pre-existing" problem". It's a pre existing problem that didn't exist and hour before the two warranties crossed over. They dug for that marvel of douchebaggery for over two weeks before they called. From my perspective I had iron clad situation. 2 years Manufacturers Warranty, followed by 1 year Skoda UK warranty, followed by 3 year Skoda UK extended warranty. Oh, silly me, presuming "extended" actually meant "extension of" duty of care. I specifically ensured none of the problems marring Audi and VW owners could happen to me. I though I couldn't be fobbed off. All paid out of my own pocket, regular oil weighting tests, extra diagnostics, extended Skoda warranty etc. They still found an excuse to sweep me and my car under the carpet. And cherry on the top. After service dude returned to the desk with grim "bad news, engine will need to be rebuilt" (but before they called me asking for 2.5k to fix it) the guy slid a printout towards me and said "It will be £10.some change". I looked at him puzzled. "We had to top up the oil". Well, so much for courtesy anything.

What I'm saying is - it doesn't matter, Seat or Skoda, if the dealer is bad, rouge or bent, they will be bad, rouge and bent regardless of plaque on the wall. Engine is the same, gearbox is the same, platform is the same, electronics are the same, problems will be the same.

Edited 25 October, 201312 yr by v0n

So it's red or bent? 

 

Seat recently came bottom in the Driver Power survey when it came to dealerships, with abysmal service and other sins, whereas Skoda were 7th, which is a tad disappointing to say the least, especially as for several years previously they were either 1st, 2nd or 3rd. 

 

Skoda need to pull their socks up a bit I'm afraid and my dealings with Skoda CS was less than confidence inspiring, compared to the time before. 

Rogue/rouge, nice slip up, well caught TheWanderer

Seat survey scores are a concern, but, someone correct me, you can, within consumer rights, service your Skoda or Seat at VW or Audi, or any other garage using original parts. For most of buyers, with variable servicing, it will be single service per year as well. Unless the car goes wrong.

If you call around, in my limited experience in Kent, some Seat dealers will be able to negotiate prices at DTD levels, two of them also mentioned alternative financing packages from VAG group including 0% APR HP when paired with bigger deposit/trade in. Oh, and get technology pack.

Yes, there's also 0% finance on offer over two years with a 50% deposit from Seat.

What about dealer experience? Down in east kent the Seat dealer is tin pot experience squeezed between a citroen and jaguar dealer. Don't get me wrong I don't mind a bit of old school dealer but we don't even get a small showroom to sample the cars!! So what about the Seat dealers your way?

agreed, I can't fault my local Skoda dealer in any way whatsoever tbh, they are excellent and dealer backpack/support is important. It's actually the main reason I am shying away from Fords nowadays too.

No neither of your options have quattro

Skoda for me though; Seat do nice exteriors but bland interiors as a rule.

TP

we really don't need awd for this car as we have the Yeti to get around in if need be. From a performance perspective there's also far less benefit with only 140bhp under the bonnet.

This is a similar dilemma I'm having. Got to be honest and say that at the moment I'm leaning towards the Leon, for the following reasons:

1. Mk3 vRS is not a huge improvement over the Mk2. Leon is a massive improvement over the Mk2 and comes with some suspension too!

2. You can get over 20% discount on the Leon as opposed to about 8 to 10% for the Octavia.

3. I no longer have the need for the space that the vRS offers (A6 estate for tip runs available)

4. vRS is about £1.5K to £2K more expensive and I'm looking to buy a third car for sunny days and weekends, so may prefer to put extra pennies to that rather than our 2nd car.

5. I've had two vRS diesel estates already.

In truth I think the new Octavia is a nice looking car, but my test drive in a VRS TSI dsg left me a bit underwhelmed.

And actually when I started out on this car change project I was pretty sure I'd end up with a Golf GTD, but it's dropped out of the running for being nearly as expensive as the A3 Sportback, but no where near as nice.

Oh, and in answer to the OP's question, I think the answer maybe "yes", but only if you don't need the Octavia's space. If you do, then the Octavia is the only (current) MQB car that provides that space.

I agree with most of that myself (although I'm not to worried about how they compare with their previous version, more how the latest generations compare to each other. I've looked at alll four of the MQB options and agree that the sportback is the nicest, followed by the Golf overall - mainly down to interior as I think the Audi is a little bland externally. Given vags recent run of engine issues my gut feeling is to stay away from the Audi purely down to them using the COD version of the 1.4 - a little too new and untested for me. The Golf estate is a very nice place to be indeed - the last demo one I took out had the panoramic roof, Vienna leather interior and top of the line sat nav and audio options - that felt like a lot of car for the money... But optioned up, they are actually a lot of money! Going back to the need for a decent boot, the Sportback is probably out of the question but the Golf estate, Leon ST and Octavia would still be in the running.

Like most threads on this site, this debate is all down to personal preferences and what options you really need. Having owned mk2 & mk3 variants of both leon fr and octy vrs I have the following observations:

1. I ordered mk3 vrs without seeing one in the flesh or driving - initially I was a little worried that I may have bought the wrong car. However, After driving the new vrs for just over a week I am very impressed. The drive is far more refined - ride quality is better, cabin is very quiet, power delivery is really smooth (tdi) and the interior is a massive improvement especially the steering wheel controls. Unfortunately to spec it up with the options I wanted it added over 1k to list price.

2. Leon is a great car too and is well kitted out in terms of standard kit and the tech pack is the icing on the cake. The leon feels lighter and therefore more nimble than the octy on turn in. However, the suspension is much harder and you feel every bump (both cars on 18s). Seat also on variable servicing too at a similar cost to Skoda.

Can't fault either car - both are excellent value for money but are packaged differently.

my feelings also overall, both offering great value, packaged slightly differently as you say! I guess if the rear cabin space is that important then things have to swing in favour of the Skoda. If you are after a package that's a little more 'dynamic' then maybe it swings towards the Seat.

I have also had my interest perked by the Leon ST (as it was with the Ibiza ST FR which was launched days after I placed the order for my Fabia vRS Estate..).  Octy2 would have done a treat but I'm also concerned that the O3 is a little too big for my needs.  Currently available model also under consideration is the Gold GT Estate (as I would choose the 1.4 TSI + DSG option - something not available on the Leon) for tax reasons as its a company car.  Low fleet lease values mean I could max out the options on a Leon compared to the Golf or Octavia.  However to maintain my preferred drivetrain, I have to compromise with the Leon somewhere - which puts the Golf and Octy back at the top of my list.

 

I'm not a "dash fondler" so materials aren't so much of an issue - more concerned by dynamics (i.e. easily viewable and reachable).  I did dismiss the Ibiza after looking at one (previous gen) as the dash was (to my mind) just plain ugly, I'm afraid.  New Leon looks a lot better in the pictures - need to see one in the flesh though.

 

My local Seat dealer has a shiny large showroom only a few years old although the closest one to the office is a pokey little place (and shared with a Skoda dealer) straight out of the 70's save for the illuminated sign out the front!

 

I agree with the spec though - its a trade off for some items against others.

 

I shall be watching this thread..

My local seat dealer shares the showroom with Volvo - that on its own would put off any enthusiastic driver!!

Yes mechanically identical car so should be as reliable and economical as the equivalent Octavia. Never liked Seat interiors particularly although the latest Leon s a huge improvement in every regard over its predecessor., but still not as good as the Octavia . As I wanted a comfortable reliable , economical and relaxed car for my long daily commute, so chose the Skoda Had I wanted a performance hatch I would probably have looked harder at the Leon, to me the Octavia is too big and bulky to work as a nip and tuck hatch.