Hi all,

 

First up , MERRY XMAS!!! hope you and all your families have a great day!

 

So.. I just want to get some ideas on what to check on my car. Its a standard 1.3 135 engine. only mod seems to be a straight through exhaust without the middle box, and only the silencer on the end. Recently had new cap/rotor/plugs/leads. It always starts perfectly, auto choke works perfectly.

 

The thing is when i put the hammer down, even in 1st/2nd, after 4k revs it feels like there is no more power, in 3rd i cant rev out to redline, i get to 60mph and it wont push any more. then in 4th it gets to about 75mph and there is simply no more power. There is what i would say "normal" torque at 2-3000 rpm, but not higher. It also drinks a lot of fuel, about 25mpg i think if im lucky ( i do thrash the old girl tho). Im sure this cant be right, my wifes little 800cc maruti was faster than this!

 

What can i check? i was thinking along the lines of timing? the engine is very smooth, but maybe at high revs the advancer or whatever takes care of that is not working properly? I guess at high revs the carb is providing fuel through the main jet and this is original so i don't think this is a problem. Any ideas would be great!

 

Cheers!

 

PS: i have no idea how many miles its got on the clock... its on its 4th speedo lol. i would guess at least 80k miles.. its almost 24 years old!

 

 

You described quite vividly what great job you're doing killing that little old stock/family car thinking you're driving a rally car. Looking at all figures you mentioned, I don't see anything wrong. Did your car had a sudden massive loss of power recently? Because otherwise you have wrong expectations from the wrong car. Now really, what performance do you expect to get from your stock car? 100 mph in 4th with the engine screaming?

Edited 25 December, 201312 yr by adurer

 With all due respect and in the nicest possible way I tend to agree with what adurer is saying. But, if it really is lower on power than it should be I would check the ignition timing, check that you are getting full throttle [cable adjustment] and that the 2nd choke on the carburettor is operating at full throttle/load. The 136 engine with higher compression has a little more power than your 135 engine, if you need more power without spending a fortune it may be worth fitting one. 

^^ whs.   albiet possibly could have been worded in a different way

I rephrase:

Courior, it is so good to know that after helping you solve some electrical issues, your car is so happy and gay. It is a treat for her (it?) to be 'trashed' as you so nicely put it, although some people would give their left arm to own one in UK and treat it better. But don't mind them, they're only jealous and hypocrites. Speaking of which, you have a great car, capable of at least twice the power as stock as it is. I would be worried too for not getting the 120 mph maximum speed in 4th as Skoda mentions. You can surely go over the 6k red line being helped by your clutch (which is in great shape from careful starting). Furthermore, 25 mpg in rally driving style? That is quite a nightmare! I can easily get 50 mpg going uphill in the same driving manner. I hope you don't mind I've told you the harsh truth, but I did it with all due respect and in the nicest possible way walking on my tip toes.

 but I did it with all due respect and in the nicest possible way walking on my tip toes.

 

 I love the fact that you're at least as sarcastic as me!   [said with all due respect and in the nicest possible way of course].

 

I would walk on tip toes but I'd probably fall over!

Seems like Its a goodun then lol. I think i made it sound worse than i actually do drive it, and the speedo is in km so maybe the mph conversion done in my head was off a bit.  Adurer, funny you mention rally driving as today i did a bit of off road/mudding with it and where all the 4x4 guys told me "you will never make it up there" .. well it damn well made it and wiped the smile off their faces!! Here they are so common there are 100's running about and the same amount in breakers and people breaking them privately, parts are so easy to find and soooo cheap. If you guys needs any parts i would try and help out if its a PITA to find them in UK or even Poland. So apart from treating her a bit better... I suppose i should make it a general question.

 

In an old, much loved, carbed engine such as a skoda 135 motor. What could cause lack of top end power and how to check these parts out.

 

So far i have made sure all vacuum lines are securely fitted and not leaking. The bit i'm not sure about is the little diaphragm thing stuck on the dizzy, how can i check this is working (timing light and rev it i guess?)

How can i check the 2nd choke is working on the carb as daverapid mentioned?

 

Cheers

What carb do you have? Pierburg 2E3?

Hi,

 

Yeah its the original one, and that name rings a bell.

 

Here is a video i made of a 2nd gear pull into 3rd on level ground. All speeds are in KM so perfectly legal

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsVFPkb9RBU

 

If all other stock favorit's are this slow, then im happy

It's quite hard to tell from the video, but yeah, it looks kind of sluggish.

Performance wise, I would say there are equal chances to be timing or fuel related. So I'll start with your first concern, the vacuum advance part.

Note: all operations with engine stopped.

 

Normally you would need a strobe gun and a vacuum pump to chech if the vacuum advance curve is in spec. But just for a rough test you could use your 'personal tools': your breath and your sight plus 50 cm of 4 mm (inside dia) vacuum hose.

 

Detach existing vacuum hose from vacuum advance diaphragm. Install your piece of hose. Suck. Watch the 4 pegs (arrows) rotate some 30 degrees. If they don't rotate, the diaphragm is broken.

Note: the distributor has also a centrifugal advance deep down inside. If you feel rich, buy a new original distributor (no VIKA = China)

 

Now the carburettor part. Think of carburettor as the ECU of the car. It has a tremendous influence on performance and economy. Here's what we're looking at after removing the air filter (photos from very similar Felicia)

 

Pull out hose as shown. Insert another hose (2 mm dia) some 50 cm long.

Here is the interest area. See zoomed photo below.

Press accelerator pedal to the floor (or rotate clockwise all the way the throttle lever with left thumb). Suck through the hose. Watch pull rod move very easy some 2 cm. If not moving at all, the 2nd stage diaphragm is blown. If moving hard, 2nd stage throttle axle is almost seized.

Note: I recommend cleaning and resetting the carburettor. It does wonders if done by a specialist. All inner channels might be full of gunk, including the one that should allow vacuum to reach 2nd stage diaphragm. In other words, diaphragm might be good, its pull rod might move freely, but if the vacuum channel from 2nd stage venturi to diaphragm is stuck...

 

Now some scary stuff. Here's how it looks a 10 years old carburettor before cleaning.

 

 

Now that is some top quality help there mate! exactly what i needed to know to test my dizzy and carb... I will get these checks done as soon as i find some time, i got a feeling both tests will fail though :(

So, finally found time to test all this. The dizzy rotates fine on stage one, and the on stage 2 the black rod moves 2cm, although it doesnt seems to pull anything. just it moves sliding over the copper/metal threaded bit if u see what i mean.

I then tried putting my finger over the line to the second stage and revved the motor but felt absolutely NO VACUUM at all. I guess this means that my carb is gunked up :( , but at least all the diaphragms are ok

Could i get away with spraying a load of carb cleaner spray in there? aiming for where the vacuum tube hole is for the 2nd stage?

Just thought i would do a follow up... I have managed to free up the 2nd stage throttle plate and i think the car does pull a little harder in the high revs, but now it doesnt idle properly. It seems to hold about 2k revs, then slowly drops to 600rpm and then recover to 800, then back down to 600 etc.... this is when its really warmed up properly... when its cold/warm it holds about 1600rpm for idle... the Choke is working perfectly.. Maybe the second stage throttle plate needs the stop screw setting correctly? can anyone advise if this is the best way to go about it, or they know another setting i need to check?

 

Cheers.

all idle problems are always related to vacuum leaks on Pierburg 2E3.

here is how I always tested on my car:

I took a propane burner with a hose attached and with engine idling I gassed the area of gasket between carburettor and intake manifold.

idle will raise when propane is sucked through a vacuum hole.

 

I know people use also carburettor cleaner spray to check for vacuum leaks.

from experience I know only very few brands make idle react when sprayed.

but propane works 100%.

 

ps: I hope you understand you don't have to light the propane

have an extinguisher handy just in case.

I never had problems, but better safe than sorry.

Thanks for the reply mate.

I agree that this would be a vacuum leak and I did your test but nothing happened. Therefore I think its the second throttle plate that is not correctly adjusted against its own little stop screw and at idle it is open a bit too much hence giving the effect of a vacuum leak. It was completely stuck before I cleaned it.

After driving some 25km it seems to be better and now holds an almost steady 600 rpm idle. I know this is very low and can be adjusted so I will adjust it tomorrow and maybe I'm lucky and it was just all the cleaning fluid effecting it and maybe now the second throttle plate is making a fresh seat? If I hold the revs at 1000rpm with the pedal then it is almost stable and stays near 1000rpm. Will see tomorrow how it goes

a throttle plate slightly open is NOT a vacuum leak.

no matter which throttle plate is.

everything UNDER throttle plates should not leak,

2nd stage initial gap can only influence idle speed, exactly like 1st stage one.

but it doesn't make idle speed fluctuate.

leave it alone.

another method to check for vacuum leaks is this:

screw in all the way the mixture screw and the engine must stop.

if it doesn't, air is sucked around the bottom gasket.

yet another method is (with air filter out) to listen what sound does the air flowing through carburettor.

if it is a continuous, loud hiss, you're good.

if it is a gurgled hiss, not good.

but best way to decide vacuum leak or not is to mount a vacuum gauge at the end of the PCV hose.

it is the thinner hose near oil cap.

you should have a STABLE 500 mm Hg vacuum at idle.

mixture screw should some 3 turns out from fully closed.

adjust it for maximum vacuum and steady idle.

Hi,

 

All is sorted now... the 2nd stage wasnt as free as it should have been and was sticking in slightly open or fully closed position and causing a wierd idle... i made sure now its free with zero friction and also the vacuum tube was blocked... some good carb cleaner and some compressed air later it is unblocked... The car now starts and idle's well but i havent had a chance to really test the second stage POWEEEEEER cause was stuck in traffic a lot. Maybe later when the roads are empty i will go for a quick test drive

 

I will use the vacuum to get my idle mix perfect, thanks for that, i will have to borrow a guage though as i only have motorcycle ones that have 4 mercury bars next to each other with no units printed on them.

 

Thanks mate!

no problem.

I will send your regards to my mentor that supervised me.

he thought me a lot of useful stuff.

including how to work with photos and text on them.

here is a fresh photo from him.

 

regards 

 

I have the same problem with my second stage skoda felicia 1.3 Pierburg 2E3 carburettor 

 

change the distributor for a good one (moves when she sucks) 

 

replace all vacuum hoses new 

 

there is something curious if I get some time with the hand, fits perfectly well, if I turn off after 20 minutes I turn I hasten to background nothing happens or moves 

 

I also unstable idle after that I manually enter the second stage while running idle is not stable 

 

 

that I can do?

=======================================================0

 

Saludos 

 

tengo el mismo problema con mi segunda etapa carburador skoda felicia 1.3 pierburg 2E3

 

cambie el distribuidor por uno bueno (se mueve cuando se chupa)

 

cambie las mangueras de vacio todas nuevas 

 

hay algo curioso si la hago entrar unas vez con las mano, entra perfectamente bien ,si apago luego de 20 minutos prendo acelero a fondo no pasa nada ni se mueve

 

tambien tengo el ralenti inestable despues que hago entrar la segunda etapa manual mientras funciona ralenti no es estable

 

 

que puedo hacer ?

Hi,

 

I took the carb off and using the documents and pics that these grand folks have sent me, cleaned up the second stage thottle plate untill it moves with no resistance, and cleaned the vacuum line with carb cleaner/compressed air. Once its all working when off the engine, it should be fine when on the engine. u can adjust the little ball joint that connects the vacuum to the throttle plate to make it push more so that it forces it closed more when idling, this is how i sorted out the idle.

 

Once it works properly its like having VTEC ....... after about 3500rpm the motor pulls a lot harder when at full throttle. Before 100kph was a struggle, but now i can get to 130 with ease! Well worth fixing it.

saludos 

 

he leido este post entrero y otro mas que hablar sobre las fugas de vacio pero no logro hacer que funcione :(

 

 He limpiado el  carburador pero cuando dices limpiaste la segunda etapa a que parte te refieres exactamente ?

 

esta placa que abre y cierra?

 

estaba leyendo esto pero no si eso tiene que ver donde dice ajuste segunda etapa.

 

http://www.autoprospect.ru/volkswagen/golf2-jetta/3-1-12-4-regulirovka-karbyuratora-pierburg-solex-2e3.html

=====================================================

regards 

 

I have read this post and another entrero more to talk about vacuum leaks but I can not make it work: (

 

  I have cleaned the carburetor but when you say you cleaned the second stage which part you mean exactly? 

 

this plate that opens and closes? 

 

I was reading this but not if it has to do where said second stage adjustments.

Edited 9 February, 201412 yr by RicardoM

I didnt have a vacuum leak in my case.. Lets start with how the second stage works..

 

1) Press gas to full throttle and the second stage will be unlocked on the carb.

2) when enough revs/vacuum is created the 2nd stage diaphram pulls on the 2nd stage throttle plate control rod and opens the second stage

3) when throttle pedal is released the second stage gets forced closed by the locking mechanism.

 

I think you have a problem that the 2nd stage throttle plate is sticky and not closing properly hence causing some irregular idle. This is what happened to me.

 

To fix this i removed the carb from the motor, removed the throttle plate from the axle, removed the axle, cleaned everything and put it back together after a dip in some engine oil. then i put carb cleaner in the vaccum hole and forced compressed air in there (110psi) and i was lucky and it blew clear the vacuum passage.... Put it all on the motor and away you go.

 

 

 

This pull rod can be adjusted to be longer/shorter (see the small thread) .. this will help force shut the throttle plate when its idling..i made mine a bit longer.

solucionado lo de la segunda etapa lei el manual mas de 5 veces me acoste el sabado a las 5 am desde las 2 pm buscando informacion y trabajando mi carburador 

 

el carro no tiene silenciador y no se escucha prendido no jalones nada estable

la segunda etapa perfecta... cuando piso afondo todo un hombre!!!

incluso ahora hasta agua sale por el escape cuando lo prendo... wow antes no salia

 

 

pero no salgo de 26 kilometro por gl de gasolina

 

no tengo fugas de vacio , distribuidor perfecto

 

¿que mas puedo hacer?

====================================================================

I solved the second stage manual lei more than 5 times on Saturday I slept at 5am from 2pm looking information and working my carburetor 

 

the car has no muffler and no milestones heard nothing stable pinned 

the second stage perfect ... when afond floor: D a real man! 

even now until water comes out the exhaust when I turn ... wow did not come out before 

 

 

but I do not leave gl 26 km by gasoline 

 

I have no vacuum leaks, distributor perfect 

 

What can I do?

if water comes out from the tail pipe, that is a very good sign.

 

the fuel consumption can be high from various factors:

- brakes are 'dragging'

- low tires pressure

- rally driving style

- engine cold or warm (winter or summer)

... and many other factors that increase the load on the engine.

 

26 km / US gallon is the normal consumption in city.

41 km / US gallon is the best you can get at 90 km/h

Greetings thanks for the reply 

 

that is not normal when the media before the last time was in November 2013 was giving me 40 km / U.S. (the measure it with the meter tachometer felicia) 

 

my way of handling all my changes happened in 2000 or 2500 rpm in 5th gear going 50 km / h (I enjoy riding in my car) I have no air conditioning 

 

for the brakes change the brakes in December, early January was me screaming a gum WHILE ran took his crystallized bands, stopped screaming but (if not here it may lie the problem) but do not feel tired bone dragging 

 

 

I'm thinking take it to the mechanic carburetor but charges 60 dollars / us by tuning carburetor super cost ... 

 

he does not know much vacumetro or vacuum (it is the best of all what is)

 

 

===================================================================

 

 

 

saludos  gracias por la respuesta

 

no es normal por que antes cuando la media la ultima vez fue en noviembre 2013 me estaba dando 40 km/US (los mido con el contador de tacometro felicia)

 

mi forma de manejo paso todos mis cambios en 2000 o 2500 rpm en 5ta marcha  voy a  50 km/h (disfruto andar en mi carro) no tengo aire acondicionado

 

respecto a los frenos cambie los frenos en diciembre, principio de enero me estaban  chillaba una goma mientra corria le quitaron el cristalizado a las bandas , dejo de chillar pero (no se si aqui pueda radicar el problema) pero no se siente cansando osea arrastrando

 

 

estoy pensando llevarlo al mecanico del carburador pero cobra 60 dolares/us por afinar el carburador, super costo...

 

el no tiene vacumetro ni sabe mucho de vacio (es el mejor de todos lo que hay)