WORD OF WARNING dipping vRS oil level..

[sharkrider]

Also after having had kittens about oil when I first came on here after buying my vRS I also want to give Dave's posts a big , I don't believe he is advocating anything lacksidaisical or dangerous here, I am convinced for all the reading I have done on this that there is at least a percentage of people experiencing high oil consumption due to excessive checking of their dispticks (ooh err missus) and overtopping.

 

This whole section has become utterly overrun with oil threads which I think has somewhat unbalanced the issue.  Yes there are an unacceptably high number of cars with issues, but if you read this subforum you would get the impression that it's the majority rather than the minority which suffer.

 

I applaud the attempt to bring a little light into the debate and encourage people to enjoy their cars more and worry a little less.  Not neglect them, but remember to enjoy them.

 

George - you have a lot of knowledge and importantly a lot of real experience of testing the many theories on the oil issue, on top of that you have give a lot of people on here advice that has helped them out.  So I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted, just saying that now this subject has been done to death, it would be great to see more pics of your little red Fabia on Scotlands great driving routes.

Well said sir!

[philhoward]

I'm firmly in the "Yellow Light" camp as it seems I have probably been right.  Its rarely convenient for me to check with exactly the same conditions every now and then and on the flat, so wait for the car to tell me it needs oil.  If it does, it gets half a litre.  I don't even check the dipstick any more.  Skoda service it occasionally and I drive it.

 

Result?  It has used (been refilled with) a litre between variable (19000 mile) services.  I drive it normally.  I thrash it.  I try economy runs (the orange light gamble with the fuel gauge; how much left after it says zero).

 

 

Easy.

 

The End

[Ootohere]

Sorry i am not clear what you are saying,

So after the first engine was replaced,

 

Have you had a Warning message or light on come on ever, then had to top up,

& how much did it take.

 

?Does 0.5 litres top it up enough from the light showing?

& you have had 2 yellow lights so topped up with 1 litre over the past 19,000 miles

 

Or do you just not have one that uses oil, so no need or reason for it needing checked?

[philhoward]

First engine was replaced due to a burnt valve, so not oil related.  Original engine got through 3 litres in the first 19k (until first service).  Stopped being paranoid about checking meticulously every time I got in the car after the first couple of yellow lights.

 

Second engine (fitted at 22k) - yes, I had the yellow warning light twice between 22k and 38k, and had it twice between 38k and 53k (now).  

 

I add half a bottle (so 0.5 litres) when it comes on - partially as overfilling is very bad, but also it always comes on an inopportune moment (the law of sod) so don't get the chance to do a proper check shortly after.  I probably don't add enough to take it to the full mark, but on the odd occasion I've checked it shortly after (within 1000 miles), it's been in the hatched area, so topping up not necessary.  Found this out from the first engine's comparably high oil thirst, and carried the principle over to the 2nd engine.

 

Oddly enough - and something which came from you, George - is the first engine's oil temperature on cruising used to reflect the oil level.  89-91 degrees when full, rising to 95/96 degrees just before the oil level check warning came on.  The second one doesn't - there seems to be a greater fluctuation of temperature.  Maybe the oil cooler thermostat isn't as accurate on this engine?

 

I've done over 100,000 miles with twincharger engines so getting to know them a bit..also had one engine rebuilt and one replaced (although the Scirocco after having a partial rebuild of the engine at 44k or so is still going strong at 110k, I hear).

[Ootohere]

I just did 150 miles at around 5*oc ambient, 60 mph roads mostly, and some quicker

& the oil sat at 86, 89 ish and when pushed 92*oC

 

This is a 30,000 engine that never uses oil and never has, except the 3 weeks at the Xmas-New Year period when lent out, it did only 520 miles,

and it came back with no Oil Light on, & needed 1.2 litres to top it up.

Now 3,000 miles later and no oil has been put in again.

 

Strange creatures.

[sharkrider]

That's interesting, do u know how it was driven when lent out?

[Furbytom]

I've always suspected driving style has a massive effect on these cars so I'm not surprised oil consumption varies according to this. With our old hatch when I got in it to drive after it had just had SWMBO at the wheel for a few weeks it used to feel sluggish/reluctant to rev and down on power until I had "blown out the cobwebs".

[Ootohere]

It was driven 80 miles up the motorway, then moved about 2 or 3 maybe 5 miles a day,

Maybe more but i am told not,

then driven 80 miles back up a motorway.

 

But i suspect it sat for ages and ages each time it was out with the engine running,

because the miles driven and petrol use do not tally.

It had used 2 tanks of fuel for 520 miles.

(so maybe it was getting thrashed, but i think the sitting engine on

car not moving is more likely.)

 

Stationary Twinchargers IME like to use oil.

[Ally_bassman]

I've always suspected driving style has a massive effect on these cars so I'm not surprised oil consumption varies according to this. With our old hatch when I got in it to drive after it had just had SWMBO at the wheel for a few weeks it used to feel sluggish/reluctant to rev and down on power until I had "blown out the cobwebs".

I completely agree. I've done too much commuting recently. No chance to 'play'

Went out on lunch for a spin and properly blew out the cobwebs :-D car feels more lively now and much happier to rev.

Strange strange engine.

[vxh26]

"Blowing out the cobwebs"?  I would love to hear a scientific explanation for this theory, sounds pretty suspect to me.

[Ootohere]

Getting the engine up to heat, all honky dorry and fine,

then blast the soot build up out the exhaust tail pipe.

 

The engine is running very rich when cold and running about not giving it any,

and there gets to be quite a lot of soot.

 

Very standard practice,

and lets that driver up your chuff think its a diesel, just like he drives.

before he knows its not, too late.

 

If they did bother to indicate there intention, they are just sitting looking silly.

[OzFabia]

Another theory for the collection...

 

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f128/polo-gti-high-oil-usage-discussion-thread-57967-183.html#post1033974

Edited 26 February, 2014 by OzFabia

[Furbytom]

"Blowing out the cobwebs"?  I would love to hear a scientific explanation for this theory, sounds pretty suspect to me.

It was my polite way of saying "rag the nuts off it" nothing too technical really :-).

I think it's got a lot to do with the DSG really rather than the engine per se. Once the DSG has adapted to SWMBOs sedated driving style it seems to prefer to change up early and potter around Eco-stylee. Once I have opened the taps and shown it the error if it's ways a few times it just seems that bit more eager. SWMBO also swears she can tell a difference when she gets it back off me too.

[the mad monk]

thats one hell of a thread Oz

 

speaking to Slowda tech today, their official answer for checking the oil, get the car to normal running temp (engine temp not oil) which is 12 o'clock in my car, park up on level ground and wait 10 mins, simplez

[Ootohere]

That is why so many Twinchargers leave dealers with the wrong Quantity of oil in.

& they say, 'They all use oil'.

 

Coolant at 88*oC & the thermostat opens is not Normal Operating temperature if the oil is only starting to warm.

 

But if it works & you get a reading then that is perfect.

 

Why not just do the cold dip? And wait no time.

[vxh26]

It was my polite way of saying "rag the nuts off it" nothing too technical really :-).

 

I think it's got a lot to do with the DSG really rather than the engine per se. Once the DSG has adapted to SWMBOs sedated driving style it seems to prefer to change up early and potter around Eco-stylee. Once I have opened the taps and shown it the error if it's ways a few times it just seems that bit more eager. SWMBO also swears she can tell a difference when she gets it back off me too.

Thanks for that explanation.  The DSG box gets next to no criticism and but not enough praise methinks; it is a cunning box of tricks.

[the mad monk]

thats the problem George, they put too many variables into what should be a simple job, me, ill just do it my way the same way every time so i dont alter anything

[Ootohere]

They just need to Remove the Cap, Plug, & drain, remove the filter, Or suck it out.

Replace filter & Plug, Fill with the correct quanity of oil, put cap on, wait a bit,

start it and dip. Do the test drive.

 

That is put in 3.5 litres of oil, start it and do the road test, and if they are testing it they need to get it up to Normal Operating Temperature.

That is not a 5 mile run, but 8 miles might be enough.

Not 5 minutes sitting in the workshop getting the Coolant to show 90*oC.

 

Then come back into the workshop, pop the bonnet and dip the Oil after 'a few minutes'.

If it needs a little more oil in, put the 0.01 litre or just a ticky more in.

 

Job done.  Its the simplest of jobs.

How do so many find it difficult to just put in 3.6 litres,

or some make the error of 3.9 litres,

& still dip it wrong, with just Coolant at normal Operating Temperature.

[OzFabia]

thats one hell of a thread Oz

 

speaking to Slowda tech today, their official answer for checking the oil, get the car to normal running temp (engine temp not oil) which is 12 o'clock in my car, park up on level ground and wait 10 mins, simplez

 

Yep. There must be one like it in every forum for cars with the 1.4TSI engine.

[philhoward]

Just had a silly thought.

 

If the level of oil changes between hot and cold, then should the oil not be measured in grams, not litres?  That's how they do the consumption test after all.

 

If you fill it with (say) 1 litre of 50 degree oil or 1 litre of at 0 degrees, which one is best?

 

Does it take 3.6 litres, or 2.8kg (I forget the exact g/ml conversion) of oil?

[Ootohere]

857 Grams per litre they use for the test.

so 3.6 litres = 3052 grams.

 

A 4 litre bottle bought, or 4 X 1 litre bottles and do not use it all, is easy enough.

or just set the Workshop pump to 3.5 litres then a little extra to put in if needed.

 

The oil quantity does not change between hot and cold. 3.6 litres is still in there.

(or however much there is put in or left in.)

Just after sitting long enough, the oil is back down to dip your stick in.

 

Warm, Hot or engine turned over just to start and stop like with turning the engine over.

The Oil pump puts the Oil up to Lubricate the Head, Turbo, into the Oil Filter etc.

So it is not in the sump.

 

The 80*oC oil gets back to the sump quicker once stopped.

[vxh26]

<snip>

A 4 litre bottle bought, or 4 X 1 litre bottles and do not use it all, is easy enough.

or just set the Workshop pump to 3.5 litres then a little extra to put in if needed.

I wonder how carefully they measure the oil remaining in the engine after it has covered "About 1,000 kilometres", must be a wee bit less than five wine bottles?

 

With apologies to The Jam, "That's science"

[Ootohere]

On an oil consumption test, they were weighing it after 300 km (186 miles) and multiplying.

If that is what you are meaning. The loss between the Start and Final drained oil.

ONE TECHNICIAN EVEN DID A TEST AND HAD THE RESULT FIGURES WITH 1 LITRE OF OIL WEIGHING 1000 grams

& the OIL AT THE START OF TEST AS BEING 

3600 Grams or a bit more.

 

Very Inccaurate. Consumption tests as it has proved.  

Such a small amount then multiplication.

Not able to get all out of a sump plug, or measure and weigh properly.

Funnily they often got the Result,

'within Tolerances 0.3 litres used in 1000 km' / 621 miles,  ('extrapolated')

[vxh26]

<snip>

Funnily they often got the result, "within tolerances"

<snip>

Well knock me down with a feather, it is almost as if they didn't want to acknowledge the existence of a problem

 

I really do think that the way they check for oil consumption is right up there with consulting pigeon entrails.  I still think that one should rely on the oil pressure warning light, topping up as required (warm of course ) and keeping receipts for oil purchased.

[Furbytom]

857 Grams per litre they use for the test.

so 3.6 litres = 3052 grams.

The oil quantity does not change between hot and cold. 3.6 litres is still in there.

George do you know what temp that 857g/L for the test relates to?

Obviously the mass of the oil won't change with temp (unless it is being burnt off lol) but it's volume is clearly temp dependent.