"Approved Used" - horror story

[punchybda]

Just purchased a 2012 Octavia VRS estate, an "approved used" car from Westgate Skoda in Grimsby. Initially very impressed with the car. Its a lovely machine. Then during some rough weather the front end let go on a corner (fortunately at only 20mph) which was my clue to get the car looked at pronto. Turns out that the front tyres were dangerously worn - despite all "approved" cars supposedly having a multi-point inspection and a minimum of 4mm tread on each tyre. Take a look at the following (I'm still having sleepless nights thinking about how much worse it could have been!)

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62912703/IMAG0260.jpg

 

Obviously, I should have given the car a more thorough look, but I trusted that dealer had inspected and passed the car. I bought it over the phone and collected it in the evening (no daylight), never got round to going underneath the thing and having a better look around it. I could see there was about 4mm left on the outer edges of the tyres and never thought to look more closely (kicking myself now).

 

Skoda UK reckon they're not paying for new tyres as it was an "independent repair" and I reckon I'm looking at having a fight on my hands to get the car re-inspected. The customer service bloke that responded to my complaint has told me to check my sales paperwork thoroughly - seemed his opinion was that its my fault for buying it in this state and his implication was that I'd better have my papers in order regarding the multi-point inspection.

 

Does anyone have any advice they'd like to give? Does anyone have the email address of someone more senior than Phil "why do you need to know my surname" who works at the "customer service office. No I'm not telling you where it is"?

 

Feel free to commiserate or call me an idiot for trusting the words "approved used"!

[DGW]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.  When did you buy the car and how many miles have you driven in it since then? 

[Huskoda]

Its not sold as described, I'd have thought.

 

It was sold described as Approved Used, which has a specific definition, with a checklist of items to which it should conform and plainly it has not been adequately checked and shouldn't have been described in the ad as Approved Used anymore than saying the car is an estate if it were a hatchback.

[Daz716]

Write up a nice A4 big font write up of whats happened and put it in your car window, whilst parked in full view at the dealers, and talk to the Dealer manager. each day if needed.

[DGW]

Perhaps on our resident MOT testers can comment on the roadworthiness of a car with that tyre wear.  Would it pass an MOT test?

[Huskoda]

Perhaps on our resident MOT testers can comment on the roadworthiness of a car with that tyre wear.  Would it pass an MOT test?

I doubt it, since you can clearly see the thread through the right hand one.

[DGW]

If punchybda has been sold an unroadworthy car then he is in a strong position to seek redress. The dealer might try to argue that the tyre wear occurred after he bought the car hence my question about how long he has had it and how far he has driven it since then.

'The car you buy must be roadworthy. This means it must be fit and safe to drive. The Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not roadworthy. This applies equally to private sellers and car dealers.'

[Huskoda]

Full citation to throw at the dealer:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

 

Section 75 (3) (a) (i)

[KenONeill]

If punchybda has been sold an unroadworthy car then he is in a strong position to seek redress. The dealer might try to argue that the tyre wear occurred after he bought the car hence my question about how long he has had it and how far he has driven it since then.

'The car you buy must be roadworthy. This means it must be fit and safe to drive. The Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not roadworthy. This applies equally to private sellers and car dealers.'

I agree.

 

Also FWIW the last time I saw a tyre as badly worn as the RH of those 2, the car it had come off had a worn out ball joint.

[cheezemonkhai]

Octavia, the rear camber is probably on the old settings rather than the correct ones.

 

Unless you look inside, they will be 4mm + tyres.

 

I'd say that you should get the alignment checked and set to the updated standards which had less camber on the rear wheels.

[Huskoda]

These are the front tyres.

 

But yeah, all MKIIs should have four wheel alignment checked.

[fordfan]

If the tyres weren't worn through to the cords then they'd be acceptable for a MOT as it appears from the photo that the primary grooves which contain the tread wear indicators are well above the legal limit of 1.6mm,  the other grooves within the centre 75% if not cut as deep as the main grooves are deemed not to provide a meaningful tread depth measurement for the MOT test.  I would still advise that they are worn on the edge, as in my experience they'd soon be down to the cords. 

 

Your tyre on the right is worn through, exposing the cords, on a MOT test I would give it a 'Dangerous' marker along with a fail, the tyre on the left is not as bad, but I can see exposed cord, that'll get the same failure from me.

 

Unfortunately it's not something that I haven't seen before:

 

 

 

 

[punchybda]

These were front tyres, and indeed the wheel alignment was well out. Both front wheels' camber was 6 degrees or so out. Back wheels also needed adjustment - all of which I had sorted when the new tyres went on (Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's, in case anyone is curious and it's driving beautifully on them). Never mind passing an MOT, if plod had seen them it would have been an instant 6 points (and a severe telling-off no doubt).

 

As far as skoda's approved used standards go - AIUI all approved cars are supposed to have either 3mm or 4mm tread remaining on all tyres (Westgate Skoda are saying 3mm, Vindis Skoda in Cambridge say 4mm). I'd driven approx 1500 miles on those tyres before they came off and it was all pretty sedate motorway driving (luckily for me). There's no way I'd have taken 3mm of tread and the top layer of rubber off in that distance.

 

Since the OP I've had some contact from Westgate's sales manager who claims that their records show the car was sold to me with brand new tyres on the front, as they'd picked up two defective tyres on the multi-point inspection. To their credit, it sounds like they send their cars elsewhere for them (as he said something along the lines of having an invoice for fitting them) and there's a chance that Westgate themselves have been ripped off. I'm just in the process of sending photos etc. to him and will update once I've anything to report. Irrespective of the condition of the inner edges, the outer edges are down to about 3-4mm so there's no way they could have been brand new when I picked up the car.

 

I also had a word with CAB and there are two issues at stake in terms of the legalities of what's happened: breach of the Sale of Goods and Services Act (basically - you can't sell dangerous and/or unfit goods) and breach of the sale contract - Skoda had promised the car would meet a standard which it didn't. This case also got an automatic referral to Trading Standards due to the safety issue.

 

On a final note: this is my first Skoda, and (now that the alignment and tyres are sorted) I absolutely love it! Fabulous motor. Almost as much fun through the corners as my Mk2 Golf GTI, though she only gets to come out and play on sunny days now...

Edited 28 March, 2014 by punchybda

[DGW]

It is good to hear that you love the car now that it is sorted. Please let us know how matters are finally resolved.

[Huskoda]

Good to hear things are getting better. Enjoy your new motor

[gadgetman]

That wear can easily occur with incorrect pressures or straddling those square speed humps on a regular basis.

As above how long in time and distance has elapsed since purchase?

[ruffday]

As far as skoda's approved used standards go - AIUI all approved cars are supposed to have either 3mm or 4mm tread remaining on all tyres (Westgate Skoda are saying 3mm, Vindis Skoda in Cambridge say 4mm). I'd driven approx 1500 miles on those tyres before they came off and it was all pretty sedate motorway driving (luckily for me). There's no way I'd have taken 3mm of tread and the top layer of rubber off in that distance.

 

If the tracking is way off it would be easy to scrub that amount off in 1500 miles.

my 1.8 TSi went through a pair of front tyres every 10-11,000 miles and the tracking was spot on.

 

Also in 1500 miles why had you not checked the tyres properly yourself.

 

I do hope you get redress but after 1500 miles it may prove difficult.

Edited 29 March, 2014 by ruffday

[punchybda]

That wear can easily occur with incorrect pressures or straddling those square speed humps on a regular basis.

As above how long in time and distance has elapsed since purchase?

 

It was approx. 5 weeks / 1500 miles before the tyres let go and I had them replaced. Vast majority of that was sat crawling along rush-hour A14 and M1 (40-60mph on avg - lots of roadworks on my commute right now), mostly dry weather. No indication there was a problem until I was driving in Derbyshire during a hailstorm(!) The tyre pressures were correct throughout - I usually check them weekly and the car is fitted with pressure sensors which I've tested and they're working fine.

 

Westgate have told me the front tyres were defective when they performed the inspection, its looking like they weren't replaced for some reason. Mistakes happen, I'm sure it'll be resolved. And yes, I should have checked them myself more thoroughly. Lesson definitely learned there, but that doesn't mean its my fault that the car was sold in a non-roadworthy condition, in breach of "Sale & Supply", Road Traffic Act and the sales contract.

Edited 1 April, 2014 by punchybda

[punchybda]

So, a resolution of sorts. The MD of Westgate Skoda contacted me today, told me he didn't believe my "story" and that they had a "paper trail" proving that two brand new Bridgestones went onto the car prior to sale. Its worth noting at this point they asked me to supply photos last week clearly showing the branding etc. on the tyres which came off the car, which I did. Silly me. Draw your own conclusions on that one.

 

The car definitely did not have brand new front tyres when I collected it - the fronts had about 4mm of tread left where I could see on the outer edges.

 

Next time I'll treat a main dealer like I would any other shady back-street outfit and not trust a word they say. (Yes I know, should have done that anyway )

[fordfan]

Where do they source their tyres from, a specialist outside tyre company or do they supply and fit them in their own workshop?  If the latter, all it proves is that two tyres got booked to that job number and may have ended up anywhere.  It'll be much harder for the tyres to end up somewhere else if the car is taken to an outside company for tyres.

[Defenderben]

We had 2 brand new tyres fitted one month ago on a 54 plated traffic van and 1300miles later bare canvas on inner third, this was all city work with approx 300miles on a dual carriageway.

Took back to garage and they said tracking was way out the driver did not notice any steering issues just noticed the wear on a weekly check (which he had obviously not done before).

So yes you can easily scrub out a brand new set in the mileage you claim if the tracking is incorrect.

The dealer probably slapped 2 new tyres on but did not bother to check/adjust the tracking as it was simply picked up to have defective tyres by an uneducated person that could not see it was abnormal wear due to an alignment issue.

I assume when you had it realigned it was found to be way out?

Edited 1 April, 2014 by Defenderben

[ruffday]

So, a resolution of sorts. The MD of Westgate Skoda contacted me today, told me he didn't believe my "story" and that they had a "paper trail" proving that two brand new Bridgestones went onto the car prior to sale. Its worth noting at this point they asked me to supply photos last week clearly showing the branding etc. on the tyres which came off the car, which I did. Silly me. Draw your own conclusions on that one.

 

The car definitely did not have brand new front tyres when I collected it - the fronts had about 4mm of tread left where I could see on the outer edges.

 

Next time I'll treat a main dealer like I would any other shady back-street outfit and not trust a word they say. (Yes I know, should have done that anyway )

 

It might be worth checking the date code on the tyres.

At least that will tell you how old they are.

[Its me]

I can't believe that someone would buy a car and not visually inspect the tyres for 5 weeks.

I suppose we all have different priorities in life.

Regards all

Juan

Sent from my iPhone using my thumbs

[Jrjg]

Perhaps on our resident MOT testers can comment on the roadworthiness of a car with that tyre wear.  Would it pass an MOT test?

I'm no MOT tester but I can say for certain that neither tyre would pass the tread inspection, and if they did, they shouldn't do!

The offside tyre is near enough down to the wire on the inner rim, ridiculous!

Quite surprised at how bad they are considering it is only a two year old car.

Tracking could of been wayyyy out of alignment perhaps?

Does the garage have a 'we inspect all our used cars for your piece of mind' generic type of phrase on it's advertisements or anywhere? Would be good to use against them if so.

JRJG

[Norco]

I also bought our used approved vRS from Westgate Skoda. I tend to take anything the salesmen say with a pinch of salt but to be honest the process was pretty painless. I couldn't even trip him up asking about the electric mirror quirk and he stayed late on the day before his holiday to let us collect the car. 

 

We also had a problem with our tyres in that the dreaded sawtoothing was setting in (this is on a 10 plate which I suspect was on original backs but new fronts). All of the tyres were still perfectly legal but I went back to them to request that they cover the cost of the alignment to make sure they didn't get any worse. They booked me in to a garage in Hull within a few days to have alignment redone without any fuss once I sent them a picture of the rears. 

 

Perhaps if the alignment was that out then the question should be why isn't this part of the used approved checklist? (Or maybe it is in which case that would be my argument)