Oil weighing removes human interpretation of the correct level from the picture. Both methods have the same inherent variables to do with oil sitting in the engine not in the sump.

I agree short journeys would lead to higher oil consumption however. It will also lead to higher ingress of fuel into the oil too, which could partially exasperate the problem.

I have never seen the Oil that comes out of a Twincharger, be that a good one or an oil burner be anything other than good Oil,

Usually Golden Oil without anything looking wrong, very seldom dark or dirty oil, & where that was, i reckoned it was due to a Oil Filter

not having been changed, but the oil has been.  ie, Demonstrators getting put through a workshop before sale with 3-4,000 miles on them..

 

I doubt anyone has ever drained a Twincharger and got out more than the Quantity of Oil that went in, 

& when more than 3.6 Litres come out via the Sump or Vacuum pump, thats usually where too much was put in at a Service or topping up.

 

Faulty Design, or Faulty Components or Faulty Engine Management are the Cause of Excessive Oil Consumption, 

not using the Recommended Oil & Octane of Fuel.

 

george

<snip>

I doubt anyone has ever drained a Twincharger and got out more than the quantity of oil that went in

<snip>

Probably the most accurate observation you have ever made

 

<snip>

Faulty design, or faulty components or faulty engine management are the cause of excessive oil consumption,  not using the recommended oil & octane of fuel.

<snip>

Also probably right on the money.  I would be amazed if using the correct oil or RON 98 or 95 petrol would cause excessive oil consumption.  I would certainly be suspicious of the impact of messing about with the ECU, likewise thrashing the car when it is cold (or even perhaps when it is hot).

 

However, I agree that the most likely cause would be faulty design and/or poor quality control.  The suggestion that the CTHE engine is more reliable than the CAVE which it replaces would tend to suggest that faulty design of the earlier engine is a significant factor but maybe VAG sorted out some QA problems as well?

95 ron can cause misfires and poor running and increased oil use, and oiled up plugs.

98 ron is the Prescribed octane for the engine producing 132-136 kW.

& it is not only a loss of power on the lower octane fuel.

 

Skoda  & VW had to update the ECU on the Early cars from 2009- 2012, because they got the engine management wrong.

then the Revised the Engine Management from the New CTHE,

& Possibly again  just after release.

 

What amazes me is you knew nothing about them 8 months ago, and now you know lots.

Have you been to Technical College or Evening classes recently to increase your mechanical knowledge

or reading forums?

 

A few months ago you had not even seen a Twincharger engine according to your posts here,

& had no idea where the Oil Filter was, or very much details on the cars or engines.

Edited 28 July, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

I dropped oil twice, both time is was completely black, like diesel engine oil. That was Castrol Egde Pro Longlife III 5W-30. 

As for judging engine oil levels using dipstick I can show you a trick at Blyton which proves beyond any doubt, according to the "dipstick" theory, that twincharger uses over 1 ltr within 10 secs .  Keep dipsticking!

Jabozuma,

I do a cold dip to check an engine.

See it has Oil in, & enough oil, that is fine before doing a journey IMO.

 

Then do a 'Jabozuma check'.  

Just to be sure to be sure,

 

Open the drivers door, put in the key, start the engine while still outside the car.  stop right away.

 

The level is now lower when i dip, Oil is up to the Oil Filter.

This level will be the same as when checked later with a hot dip.

 

Done that now for more than a year since a Briskoda Member mentioned it.

Totally Constant and i have used that system hundreds on times on quite a few Twinchargers.

 

george

Edited 28 July, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Mine is different (CTHE) - cold and hot dips are exactly the same. Switch on then off straight away and dipstick is bone dry as all oil sucked from the pan and still under pressure in the galleries slowly making its way back down - neat trick I discovered by accident once

Just goes to show. 

 

Not sure what though, and if it just shows we do it differently,

 because i have done the Jabozuma checks on CTHE engines, 

and get the same result as with CAVE.

 

Done it ever since you told me, and i have advised loads of others to.

Whats the harm in trying at least once.

 

You having the same level on the stick with a stone cold dip and a Hot Check surprises me.

 

How long after stopping on the Flat with a hot engine and hot oil, before you check the Dip Stick?

Edited 28 July, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

15 mins after swithc off after driving for 30 mins and oil at 91C, the same place, religiously, very strict regime of getting the dip stick bone dry. Dip twice to be sure. That is 9.15 in the morning, than 1.30pm engine stone cold, car not moved repeat dip procedure and exactly the same level, say right bang on the line where it should be. Try start stop thing and dipstick is bone dry despite being at correct level just 30 secs before. 

Maybe my crank case pressure is too high and prevents oil flowing back in? no clue!

One thing I can tell is that MPGs improved a lot and I do not have any problems in powah dept.

Hot dip in owners manuals for Fabia's,  all engines apart from the 44kw, is 'Wait a few minutes and pull out the oil dipstick',   very vague,

 but surely a few is no more than 5, and more than 3.

 

Please just to please me, since we have compared dipsticks,  can you do a Hot dip next time after a 'few minutes'  lets say 4 minutes.

 

After 15 minutes i fully expect the Oil Level to be the same as with Stone cold.

But then 'they' suggest checking at Fuel Fill ups, well who hangs about waiting 15 minutes at Fuel Fill ups.

(well apart from the car at the pump with the driver or passenger in doing a full weeks family shopping.)

Edited 28 July, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

 

 

Please just to please me, since we have compared dipsticks,  

 

 

 

Ahem! Hell ,since we've already done THAT, then what do I have to lose, I will dip 5 mins after I switch off!

i hope that is the only thing you two are comparing otherwise we might need a mod to sort you two out

as an update im still waiting on slowda to answer Georges question of how can a car using 0.49 ltrs be ok but one using 0.51 be broken :/

i hope that is the only thing you two are comparing otherwise we might need a mod to sort you two out

as an update im still waiting on slowda to answer Georges question of how can a car using 0.49 ltrs be ok but one using 0.51 be broken :/

 

Don't go holding your breath waiting on that response, it will take them a while to work out a way of dressing up the fact that both cars would use 10 litres of oil to cover 12500 miles and yet one can be described as failing while the other is a rip roaring success. Skoda really need to accept it is morally wrong to expect a customer to go through that amount of oil in what is a relatively new car. It is the equivalent of 3 complete dumping and replacements of the entire oil capacity of the car in what would be an average miles per year for a consumer.

Can we bring this back on topic and post as per the rules please!!

Sorry posted in wrong place doh!

Edited 3 August, 201411 yr by lordsummit

Hot dip in owners manuals for Fabia's,  all engines apart from the 44kw, is 'Wait a few minutes and pull out the oil dipstick',   very vague,

 but surely a few is no more than 5, and more than 3.

 

Please just to please me, since we have compared dipsticks,  can you do a Hot dip next time after a 'few minutes'  lets say 4 minutes.

 

After 15 minutes i fully expect the Oil Level to be the same as with Stone cold.

But then 'they' suggest checking at Fuel Fill ups, well who hangs about waiting 15 minutes at Fuel Fill ups.

(well apart from the car at the pump with the driver or passenger in doing a full weeks family shopping.)

 

 

Right, checked below 5 mins after shut down, same place, same conditions as if checking stone cold or 15 mins after shut down.

less that 5 mins after shut down oil level on the dipstick was lower than 15 mins or stone cold. Not much, perhaps 4mm but visibly lower.

That's my finding as well. I've seen the level go up from a check at 10 minutes after shut-down to my usual 15 minutes. I find things literally too hot to handle much before 15 minutes as well.

 

Surely, a redesigned dipstick, one that could be used cold, would solve a lot of problems. Apart from the problem of showing exactly how much oil is disappearing....

Edited 4 August, 201411 yr by OzFabia

That's my finding as well. I've seen the level go up from a check at 10 minutes after shut-down to my usual 15 minutes. I find things literally too hot to handle much before 15 minutes as well.

 

Surely, a redesigned dipstick, one that could be used cold, would solve a lot of problems. Apart from the problem of showing exactly how much oil is disappearing....

I am confused.

What is wrong with the standard dipstick when used cold?

Mine seems to work fine.

I am confused.

What is wrong with the standard dipstick when used cold?

Mine seems to work fine.

But are you really sure? Can you trust the reading? Hot or cold!

Absolutely nothing wrong with checking cold,  

if the level is consistent and you check where the level is cold when you know that 3.6 litres is in the engine, 

then you know where to top up to.

 

It is Skoda (VW) that say the Oil should be checked 'Warm' 'Operating Temperature' or what ever on the engines other than the 44kw ones that are to be checked cold.

As long as you have enough oil in, it is just a matter of common sense really.

 

Do not overfill.  

& if you have a 'Oil User' due to it being faulty, be sure not to Overfill, & Monitor the Oil Consumption.

 

george

Edited 4 August, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

I find the correct amount of oil to read over the cross-hatched section on the dipstick - that is, the level is somewhere on the less "readable" A section higher on the shaft. That said, I've taken to using the top of the cross-hatch section as my low mark in a cold dip, then adding 100ml. I still think this is lower than optimum, but it's a safe compromise.

Is there any really good reason with this engine why VW decided not to design the dip stick for a cold dip???

 

A cold dip is likely to be more consistant and safer.

Who says it is not designed for cold dip? It works for me boiling hot, lukewarm and stone cold or whatever else. Just pull it out, wipe dry, put it back in and read - it is a dipstick for Pete's sake, nothing to get wrong here...

Who says it is not designed for cold dip?

 

The goddam handbook !!!

 

I'm after a reasoned technical arguement here to explain the route VW took.

The Translation to English in the Owners Manual from Skoda & VW are different from the Brands, and then the biggie.

 

The Dipsticks are the same Sticks used in different Engines with Different Oil Quantity and possibly different sumps.

 

So the Same Dipstick with the same markings is used in engines with 3.2, 3.6. 3.9 & 4.3 Litre Oil Capacity.

& then the Owners Manual Diagram of Area, A, B & C and the Oil check description is mince.

 

But if you get a New car, & it arrives at the dealers with the Correct Oil Level, 

& at the PDI it has the Correct Oil Level.

& 

The Sales Person doing the Hand over does not top up too far,  then at hand over,   or with a used car after a Oil & Filter Service with the Correct Oil.

 

'A Cold Dip should be in the same place,  ie, off the scale as VW Designed and Provide the dipstick.

 

But that is OK, you know at least there is oil in.

 

The fact the 'Low Oil Warning Light', or 'Warning Message' might not show until there is more that 50 % oil level is unbelievable.

& these sometime show just before the 'Low Oil Pressure light' will show.

Well not unbelievable for VW, Skoda, Seat & Audi,

But it would be from other Manufacturers.

Edited 5 August, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi