I will shortly be getting :no:  an Octavia SE 1.4 tsi, DSG and I understand that it has stop start. Many of the discussions talk about SS using a conventional starter motor.

This does not seem to make sense, the reason being that on a 55 plate Citroen C3 with SS that I had many years ago, they had got rid of the starter motor, the solenoid and the thick/heavy copper leads and just used extra, higher voltage & thinner windings in the alternator to turn it into a motor that started the engine silently using the drive belt. 

I think they used the electronics to convert the 12 v DC to a higher AC voltage and because the current drawn from the battery much lower then the current needed by the older type of starter motor, the battery did not suffer from frequent "high current" demands and therefore lasted for ages. Also, there was no bendix drive to wear out the flywheel teeth.

 

Do VAG use the same principle as Citroen for its stop-start engines?

 

I believe it's essentially a normal starter motor. Remember, these are only half hearted attempts just to lower CO2.

Just like these badges they're sticking on the back of cars like blue efficiency, or green tech etc etc. Corporate bull to make people think their 100 year old doomed technology is some how special.

I believe it's essentially a normal starter motor. Remember, these are only half hearted attempts just to lower CO2.

Just like these badges they're sticking on the back of cars like blue efficiency, or green tech etc etc. Corporate bull to make people think their 100 year old doomed technology is some how special.

 

A blunt way of putting it… but you're probably near enough spot-on!

 

Without veering too far off the original topic, the bit I find amusing where I live in Jersey, is that the government is striving through taxation and duties to encourage people to use lower emission vehicles, while at the same time making such a hash of their traffic management policies through their failure to control the volume of vehicles on the roads, poor road maintenance and introduction of ridiculously unnecessary journey extending one way systems, massively increasing the amount of time the average driver spends in their car.

 

So basically, they want everybody to halve their emissions, but then make them spend twice as much time on the road - so save 50% and then double it and where are we?… errr!

 

Back almost on topic, my soon to arrive Octavia III is the first vehicle I will have owned with this feature, and while I can't say I like the idea of SS, and it certainly seems to generate mixed opinions on the forum, I'll have to wait and reserve my judgement. The constant flogging of the starter motor (especially with short town driving) and associated items, does flag up as a possible future concern. Fine if it goes pear-shaped under warranty (I presume), but after that an expensive problem no doubt!

I had it on the passat cc I owned from new. SS was just an inconvenience, I was working on London at the time and with all the traffic it was annoying with the engine constantly turning off and straight back on again.

Occasionally it didn't 'fire up' quite quickly enough or when coming to a stop the engine would cut out just as the traffic would start moving, leaving you with a split second when, without SS, you should really be pulling away but with SS it was shutting down the engine ready to start it back up again.

It's a yes and a no answer. How it works is the same but is a far heavy duty compared to a normal one. And a bit bigger too. I have heard from same mates in the factor trade that these things cost a fortune.

 

Without veering too far off the original topic, the bit I find amusing where I live in Jersey, is that the government is striving through taxation and duties to encourage people to use lower emission vehicles, while at the same time making such a hash of their traffic management policies through their failure to control the volume of vehicles on the roads, poor road maintenance and introduction of ridiculously unnecessary journey extending one way systems, massively increasing the amount of time the average driver spends in their car.

 

So basically, they want everybody to halve their emissions, but then make them spend twice as much time on the road - so save 50% and then double it and where are we?… errr!

 

 

 

Same here!

 

I've done just over 9k miles in mine now and can't say as I've had any problems with it.  It's always started as I've got it into gear ready to pull off.

A blunt way of putting it… but you're probably near enough spot-on!

 

Without veering too far off the original topic, the bit I find amusing where I live in Jersey, is that the government is striving through taxation and duties to encourage people to use lower emission vehicles, while at the same time making such a hash of their traffic management policies through their failure to control the volume of vehicles on the roads, poor road maintenance and introduction of ridiculously unnecessary journey extending one way systems, massively increasing the amount of time the average driver spends in their car.

 

So basically, they want everybody to halve their emissions, but then make them spend twice as much time on the road - so save 50% and then double it and where are we?… errr!

 

Back almost on topic, my soon to arrive Octavia III is the first vehicle I will have owned with this feature, and while I can't say I like the idea of SS, and it certainly seems to generate mixed opinions on the forum, I'll have to wait and reserve my judgement. The constant flogging of the starter motor (especially with short town driving) and associated items, does flag up as a possible future concern. Fine if it goes pear-shaped under warranty (I presume), but after that an expensive problem no doubt!

 

I'd agree to a degree on the whole con thing. Some cars actually are surprisingly fuel efficient to earn the moniker but something large like the Octavia really it's just a tax fiddle for us as the end consumers and for Skoda to meet it's green targets.

 

I'm surprised that traffic light data isn't gathered by sat nav companies as they would make a killing on making these SS systems more intelligent by using data about when lights tend to change as the SS systems in slowly moving start stop traffic is near pointless but in places like a set of lights I have to go through on the way to work, I could be sat stationary for 3minutes, yet a couple of miles down the road I rarely sit at the red light on a filter lane for more than a few seconds before it changes So the car would make much better sense to cut out on the longer waits rather than lights or positions where it will be very brief.

I believe VW just use a standard starter (obviously designed/validated for a higher number of starts than non StopStart systems) but essentially nothing much has changed.

 

Some other manufacturers (PSA for example which have Citroen is their group) use an "Integrated Starter/Generator".

The benefit of this system over a standard starter is that it can rotate the engine to much higher speed during starting.

This has benefits of faster starting, lighter engine & improved fuel saving (as you don't need to inject as much fuel to accelerate the engine from rest).

 

I remember reading somewhere that these ISG systems require only 2 or 3 seconds of "stopped" engine to be fuel neutral whilst standard starter systems required more like 20s.

 

However, I'm perfectly happy with the current system on the Octavia.

It starts quick enough & on the manual you have easy control over whether the engine stops or not.

Thanks for all the replies - I'm coming round to thinking that it could be useful sometimes so switching it off and on (I'll be getting the DSG version) is the way to go.

I believe VW just use a standard starter (obviously designed/validated for a higher number of starts than non StopStart systems) but essentially nothing much has changed.

 

Some other manufacturers (PSA for example which have Citroen is their group) use an "Integrated Starter/Generator".

The benefit of this system over a standard starter is that it can rotate the engine to much higher speed during starting.

This has benefits of faster starting, lighter engine & improved fuel saving (as you don't need to inject as much fuel to accelerate the engine from rest).

 

I remember reading somewhere that these ISG systems require only 2 or 3 seconds of "stopped" engine to be fuel neutral whilst standard starter systems required more like 20s.

 

However, I'm perfectly happy with the current system on the Octavia.

It starts quick enough & on the manual you have easy control over whether the engine stops or not.

the integrated starter in the alternator is fine until the alternator needs replacing ... just imagine the costs of the replacement alternator

The ISG system shouldn't need replacing though. It's not at all like an alternator as we have historically known them, but uses a brushless, electronically commutated motor-generator. In terms of design it shares more in common with your electric power steering than it does with a traditional alternator. Certainly more reliable than an overused starter motor.

 

So, it should comfortably last the lifetime of the vehicle, but you might want to add it to the ever growing list of other electric/electronic systems that should last the lifetime of the vehicle, but probably won't (and can't easily be replaced without a computer to commission the new one).

the integrated starter in the alternator is fine until the alternator needs replacing ... just imagine the costs of the replacement alternator

 

Im sure the component price is also a serious concideration for the OEMs when choosing which technology to use which is probably why everyone isnt using ISG.

 

So, it should comfortably last the lifetime of the vehicle, but you might want to add it to the ever growing list of other electric/electronic systems that should last the lifetime of the vehicle, but probably won't (and can't easily be replaced without a computer to commission the new one).

 

Good point, and desipte the fact many manufacturers will perform durability testing for >200k km your Skoda/dealer warranty is only valid for 2 or 3 years & a limited mileage.

Anything that goes wrong with the car after that and the customer has to pay...

However, I'm perfectly happy with the current system on the Octavia.

It starts quick enough & on the manual you have easy control over whether the engine stops or not.

 

I quite like it now actually. It's quite a fun game to try and gauge getting the engine going just as the lights are about to change.

P

I quite like it now actually. It's quite a fun game to try and gauge getting the engine going just as the lights are about to change.

P

 

It's easy at cross junctions where you can see the other set of lights, then you can just dip the clutch as theirs turn amber

 

Most annoying thing is when you stop at lights, clutch up, engine cuts out and then they change... had that happen a couple times this morning, kind of annoying because it stopped and started within a second of each other, but good because it meant I wasn't sitting at the lights for ages

It's easy at cross junctions where you can see the other set of lights, then you can just dip the clutch as theirs turn amber

 

Most annoying thing is when you stop at lights, clutch up, engine cuts out and then they change... had that happen a couple times this morning, kind of annoying because it stopped and started within a second of each other, but good because it meant I wasn't sitting at the lights for ages

 

Or in DSG, lift off the brake ever so slightly...

 

P

Edited 18 June, 201411 yr by paulobrien

Or in DSG, lift off the brake ever so slightly...

 

P

I had a little play with mine yesterday - you think its not going to start quick enough but so far is OK.  I did the "light braking" trick and yep - keeps the engine running..

My mini had a switch to turn the bloody system off, trouble was that you had to remember to do it every time the car was re-started as it automatically reset itself back to default Stop/Start mode.

Luckily the button is just in front of the gearlever - might be turning mine off as well..