Agreed

See as they're there to fulfil a legal requirement letting the user chose when to use them kind misses the point. And it not Skoda owners that can't be trusted, the whole human race is pretty stupid so I think having them operate automatically is probably the best solution.

 

Saab cars work the same way as Subaru as I understand it. They knew a thing or two about safety and felt they could trust their customers to figure it out - hold for two seconds or longer to activate, not exactly rocket science.

 

As for fulfilling the legal requirement, windscreen washers are a obviously a legal requirement on every car not just those with xenons. There is no automatic activation for those, so why head lights? 

As for fulfilling the legal requirement, windscreen washers are a obviously a legal requirement on every car not just those with xenons. There is no automatic activation for those, so why head lights? 

Are you being serious???

 

It is a legal requirement with Xenons to have self levelling and headlight washers so that you don't dazzle oncoming traffic due to the vastly increased brightness of the beam and the very sharp cut off. If you ever see Xenons shining through dirty glass you get a lot of beam scatter that dazzles oncoming traffic.

Are you being serious???

 

It is a legal requirement with Xenons to have self levelling and headlight washers so that you don't dazzle oncoming traffic due to the vastly increased brightness of the beam and the very sharp cut off. If you ever see Xenons shining through dirty glass you get a lot of beam scatter that dazzles oncoming traffic.

 

Er, yes. I'm well aware of that. Its the lack of control of the headlight washers thats the issue. It could easily be argued that on heavily salted roads every 5th wash might be too infrequent. Having no control regardless of the weather conditions is poor at best.

You were saying the whole human race is pretty stupid. So stupid in fact that whilst they can operate windscreen washers, headlights washers were a step too far?

My Passat had no headlight washers but the tank seemed to take about the same amount of DI water and screen wash mix. I can't say I've noticed any real difference in how long the tank takes to empty and I drive at least 30 miles a day. I really can't see what the problem is with this system

Edited 10 November, 201411 yr by V6Jules

Er, yes. I'm well aware of that. Its the lack of control of the headlight washers thats the issue. It could easily be argued that on heavily salted roads every 5th wash might be too infrequent. Having no control regardless of the weather conditions is poor at best.

You were saying the whole human race is pretty stupid. So stupid in fact that whilst they can operate windscreen washers, headlights washers were a step too far?

I don't recall calling anyone stupid?

The difference between headlight washers and windscreen washers is that you can see when your windscreen is dirty when driving, you don't have a clue how dirty your headlights are, hence why an automated system is the best compromise.

Personally I only use windscreen washers when its raining. In dry conditions if I find my windscreen dirty, I wash it manully when the car is parked (back window as well). If I use washers then the whole car gets sprayed with washing fluid, including the roof, back window etc...

Personally I only use windscreen washers when its raining. In dry conditions if I find my windscreen dirty, I wash it manully when the car is parked (back window as well). If I use washers then the whole car gets sprayed with washing fluid, including the roof, back window etc...

Really ?

As soon as the low washer warning appears the headlight washers disable. Ive found from that point the remaining dregs seem to last a good while. I reckon theres a good litre or so left at that point which with sensible use will last a while.

I think it would be better if they activated on every 10th pull of the stalk but not on the 1st when the lights are first switched on, be a bit less heavy on the fluid that way.

Washer fluid is cheap, I'd rather see and be seen than be in any doubt should the worst happen.

I don't recall calling anyone stupid?

The difference between headlight washers and windscreen washers is that you can see when your windscreen is dirty when driving, you don't have a clue how dirty your headlights are, hence why an automated system is the best compromise.

I beg your pardon. It was another poster who said that. My mistake. 

 

I agree you can see the windscreen and not the lights. But a 250 mile trip today was a case in point. Weather was dry and bright, but my headlights were on. So when following traffic on gritted roads meant very frequent washes, thus frequent headlight washes during bright conditions. If the system had to be automated (which it doesn't), then at least the auto lights should come on and off at representatives light levels.

73henny, not sure about light levels but, I do feel light direction on the light senor may play a part in the issues you're having, are you not experiencing "low winter sun" in Scotland by now and this lower direction of light maybe fooling your car's light sensors.  Only an observation I don't know the science behind it.

73henny, not sure about light levels but, I do feel light direction on the light senor may play a part in the issues you're having, are you not experiencing "low winter sun" in Scotland by now and this lower direction of light maybe fooling your car's light sensors.  Only an observation I don't know the science behind it.

 

Yes, you could be right. I think I read somewhere that it is possible for the lights to be on in bright conditions. Doesn't seem to fool my wife's A Class though.

I've got my car set to 'late' on the light settings, but I'm not sure if thats not just for the nav screen and doesn't affect the headlights. 

I think the O3 screen has a lot more slope than the A class, my light sensor seems a lot closer to horizontal than vertical but, I don't know at what angle these light sensors work.

I may be in the statistical minority, but as with any survey it depends on what was asked to what audience.

 

This is of course true. But I can reassure you that this wasn't some simple schoolboy questionnaire. The results came from a combination of interviews, panels and videos of operators actually using different UIs.

 

 

Is it really any surprise that people wanted simple controls?

 

No, of course it isn't. Unfortunately "long-press does A and short-press does B" is actually not simple enough for many. We therefore made changes.

 

 

 

Is it really any surprise that people wanted simple controls?Was there really any need to 'research' that?

 

Who researched whether people wanted simple controls? No offence intended, but you're maybe confused.

 

 

Some people will do anything other than RTFM.

 

You are absolutely correct, most people don't. But a wise company doesn't say that to their customer, "your fault, you idiot, you should RTFM". Instead a wise company will try to work out an intuitive UI to achieve the functionality required. A "long press does A, short press does B" is not intuitive and requires the operator to RTFM.

 

 

 

The very fact this thread exists, and the fact that through VCDS it can be modified to work after a 2 second press of the button (strangely similar to Subaru's system) shows that the 'solution' is flawed.

 

Nope, the "long press, short press" logic is flawed, for the reason given above.

 

 

How then did Subaru come up with the better system?, by not using 'statistics'?, or perhaps figuring out whats best themselves?

 

I think the Subaru design engineers thought that "long press does A, short press does B" was logical, mainly because they themselves knew how it works. Unfortunately customers don't know unless they are either, a) trained or read the manual. The Subaru system might appear better to an operator who knows how it works. To someone who is not trained or has not read the manual, it is useless.

 

 

As part of my role, I have to develop operator interfaces and functionality. Almost always it better to lead this type of thing and give them what is required by way of experience and common sense.

 

I've worked with engineers with this attitude in the past. They're now doing something else. Their seats are filled with engineers that work closely with customers to discover the real needs, rather than relying solely on their own experiences.

73henny, not sure about light levels but, I do feel light direction on the light senor may play a part in the issues you're having, are you not experiencing "low winter sun" in Scotland by now and this lower direction of light maybe fooling your car's light sensors.  Only an observation I don't know the science behind it.

On my VW (which I will guess uses the same sensor and decision making variables in the system) the Xenon headlights come on when the sun is low and "blinding".

The system also does exactly the same with regards to windscreen and headlights washers.

Washer fluid is cheap, I'd rather see and be seen than be in any doubt should the worst happen.

That's my attitude about the situation as well. Is the washer fluid reservoir on the Octavia especially small or why is this an issue? (I have yet to receive mine, so I can't speak from experience.)

 

I have yet to ever run out of washer fluid on any of my previous cars and I've been driving in traffic on salty/grimy roads for a considerable part of my adult life, and using my washers probably more often than necessary. (I usually keep at least one jug/bottle of washer fluid in the trunk so I can fill up as soon as it's needed.)

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by kallekilponen

 

 

I think the Subaru design engineers thought that "long press does A, short press does B" was logical, mainly because they themselves knew how it works. Unfortunately customers don't know unless they are either, a) trained or read the manual. The Subaru system might appear better to an operator who knows how it works. To someone who is not trained or has not read the manual, it is useless.

 

 

 

I've worked with engineers with this attitude in the past. They're now doing something else. Their seats are filled with engineers that work closely with customers to discover the real needs, rather than relying solely on their own experiences.

 

Ah, I see. I think the Subaru system works better because I've been 'trained'. mmm. As for the long and short button press, my wife's new A class has short press for sweep the windscreen wipers, long press for windscreen washers. How will she ever cope with that level of complexity I wonder? Obviously Mercedes have that wrong too. 

 

I'm still doing my job. And I've also worked with engineers like you who think its their way or the incorrect way. You're point makes no sense anyway. What you're saying is all the good engineers have ended up at Skoda and the bad ones must have ended up at Subaru and Mercedes for example.

 

That's my attitude about the situation as well. Is the washer fluid reservoir on the Octavia especially small or why is this an issue? (I have yet to receive mine, so I can't speak from experience.)

 

I have yet to ever run out of washer fluid on any of my previous cars and I've been driving in traffic on salty/grimy roads for a considerable part of my adult life, and using my washers probably more often than necessary. (I usually keep at least one jug/bottle of washer fluid in the trunk so I can fill up as soon as it's needed.)

 

I've no issue with the size of the washer bottle or filling it up. Its the fact that the headlight washers operate when its the middle of the bloody day, yet when you want to wash the things at night you have to wait till the car decides its time to wash (because we're not fit to make that decision apparently)

Edited 13 November, 201411 yr by 73henny

I beg your pardon. It was another poster who said that. My mistake.

I agree you can see the windscreen and not the lights. But a 250 mile trip today was a case in point. Weather was dry and bright, but my headlights were on. So when following traffic on gritted roads meant very frequent washes, thus frequent headlight washes during bright conditions. If the system had to be automated (which it doesn't), then at least the auto lights should come on and off at representatives light levels.

I understand you are implying that the headlights come on when not needed but the washing sounds like they are working effectivly. If you find the screen needs frequent washing then surely the headlights will also need frequent washing to stop the lenses getting dirty and then possibly dazzling other drivers?

I understand you are implying that the headlights come on when not needed but the washing sounds like they are working effectivly. If you find the screen needs frequent washing then surely the headlights will also need frequent washing to stop the lenses getting dirty and then possibly dazzling other drivers?

 

The headlights do indeed come on when not needed, and you're correct in saying the headlights will also need frequent washes if the windscreen does. Its the fact that the headlight washers operate when its the middle of the day (because the car thinks its dark), yet when you want to wash the things at night you have to wait till the car decides its time to wash. You can't control when the washes take place.

All I'm saying is there are better systems for this. 

All I am adding is that the 2015MY cars with the RLHS sensor instead of the RLFS sensor seem to be significantly more accurate with when to enable the lights.

All I am adding is that the 2015MY cars with the RLHS sensor instead of the RLFS sensor seem to be significantly more accurate with when to enable the lights.

 

Out of interest would you know which sensor my car have? I have the flat bottom steering wheel and standard cruise if that helps. Oh, and the vrs mode button.

What you're saying is all the good engineers have ended up at Skoda and the bad ones must have ended up at Subaru and Mercedes for example.

 

 

I haven't said anything of the sort :wonder:   I have no idea about the quality of the engineers at Skoda, I don't know any.

 

I'm not normally touchy about what people say on forums but that's at least twice you've dreamt something up and criticised me for something I never said in the first place. So it's probably time to leave this thread. Have a good weekend, all the same. :beer:

I would like to change the headlight washers to only come on after the 2nd or 3rd wash. Do I have to find a special vag garage to do this?

And this fifth wash malarkey is only applicable if it's the same journey.  If you cycle the ignition (because you've stopped somewhere) then 1st wash and the headlights get sprayed again.

 

In the summer I can go through the screenwash reservoir in 3 weeks where in previous cars it could be 5-6 weeks for same kind of washer usage.  Not the end of the world but still a pain in the backside.