Oh and number 6 would be it has the usual (for BMW) 50/50 axle weight distribution.

 

Is that a plus for mid-corner handling but a somewhat negative when reapplying full power when only half the weight is over the driven wheels?

 

Porsche, who know a thing or two about RWD cars tend to have 60/66% of weight over rear axle.  FWD often also have about 60% of weight over their driven wheels.

 

A personal dis-like of mine, for my FWD cars, is, particularly when wet, icy, snowy, is having to carry more load in the way of boot weight or even fuel and it making the driven axle weight less.   At least in the Beemer you can add ballast weight where as with FWD drive cars you cannot really do that.  Extreme examples of lower percentage weight over driven axle are the Merc 63s I suppose and an example of fish tail city when apply mucho right foot.  Got my paving slabs ready for the Jaag if/when the snow comes.  

 

 

I agree that sometimes having more weight over the front driven wheels with a light rear sods up the handling..................this is why the Golf MK7 estate handles better than the hatch...............I know, I have driven both back to back, my estate was in for a service & got the same engine in a loaner hatch................it felt horrendous compared to the estate............much lighter rear which wanted to **** the inside rear wheel............

 

did I mention it was a loaner...............

 

As for weight distribution even the maca f1 has 58.8% rear 41.2% front...............& having met Gordon Murray several times I think he knows his stuff...............50/50 is not what I would like as the perfect set up...........

I agree that sometimes having more weight over the front driven wheels with a light rear sods up the handling..................this is why the Golf MK7 estate handles better than the hatch...............I know, I have driven both back to back, my estate was in for a service & got the same engine in a loaner hatch................it felt horrendous compared to the estate............much lighter rear which wanted to **** the inside rear wheel............

 

did I mention it was a loaner...............

 

As for weight distribution even the maca f1 has 58.8% rear 41.2% front...............& having met Gordon Murray several times I think he knows his stuff...............50/50 is not what I would like as the perfect set up...........

 

 

The Porsche and F1 are not front engined, which changes everything including weight distribution. 

 

For the F1 you are not going to get 50/50 weight distribution with an engine behind the front seats and a gearbox and transaxles over the rear wheels.

 

Porsche 911 is even a bigger compromise being rear engined. Most reviewers agree that the Cayman handles better being mid engined and having more even weight distribution.

 

For a Front Engined RWD 50/50 still requires compromise but is the best balance, be it BMW or something like an MX5.

 

The biggest issue with FWD is front end lift during acceleration and asking the tyres to steer and drive. Some FWD hot hatches are quick but you just don't get the feel of a balanced car and a front end that is just required to steer.

 

The M135i is actually 54%/46% because of the heavy 6 pot up front.

 

But it's not just about haveing 50/50 weight distribution it's about getting that weight within the axles so there is less inertia and at the extremes. (Which is why the F1 is mid engined and not front or rear engined)

 

If you look at the A4 most of the engine weight is in front of the front suspension. 

 

On the three series most of the engine is behind the front axle.

 

 

MX5 has the same layout.

 

 

Lee

Edited 8 January, 201610 yr by logiclee

What were Skoda Handling Engineers smoking when they designed this solution to sandbagging the vRS hatch,

and was Martin Winterkorn CEO (THe Engineers Engineer) having some as well when he signed it off.?

The Porsche and F1 are not front engined, which changes everything including weight distribution. 

 

 

 

The biggest issue with FWD is front end lift during acceleration and asking the tyres to steer and drive. Some FWD hot hatches are quick but you just don't get the feel of a balanced car and a front end that is just required to steer.

 

The M135i is actually 54%/46% because of the heavy 6 pot up front.

 

But it's not just about haveing 50/50 weight distribution it's about getting that weight within the axles so there is less inertia and at the extremes.

 

Lee

 

 

Agree..............

 

Like the old MK4 R32 Golf, 4WD is nice v6 engine is even better & the sound.............but the nose heavy handling is pig...........& bugger all after the back axle..........

 

TBO I am surprised the M135i is still nose heavy................is the gearbox mounted after engine or before the rear diff??............

 

Just remembered behind engine which is why the centre console is so broad...............

Edited 8 January, 201610 yr by fabdavrav

Agree..............

 

Like the old MK4 R32 Golf, 4WD is nice v6 engine is even better & the sound.............but the nose heavy handling is pig...........& bugger all after the back axle..........

 

TBO I am surprised the M135i is still nose heavy................is the gearbox mounted after engine or before the rear diff??............

 

Gearbox is behind the engine hence the huge transmission tunnel in the car which means small footwells and offset pedals. There's your compromise for the weight distribution.

The 4 pot petrol models do achieve near 50/50 distribution but the 6 pot has those extra two cylinders in front of the front axle.

 

4pot

 

 

6 pot.

I agree that sometimes having more weight over the front driven wheels with a light rear sods up the handling..................this is why the Golf MK7 estate handles better than the hatch...............I know, I have driven both back to back, my estate was in for a service & got the same engine in a loaner hatch................it felt horrendous compared to the estate............much lighter rear which wanted to **** the inside rear wheel............

did I mention it was a loaner...............

As for weight distribution even the maca f1 has 58.8% rear 41.2% front...............& having met Gordon Murray several times I think he knows his stuff...............50/50 is not what I would like as the perfect set up...........

 

Items of significant weight should always be as near to the mid axle point as possible so when it does slide it is easier to bring back to line ie moments of inertia.  Few cars get anywhere near this ie proper mid engined cars like the V6 Gordini.  Or one can go for a very light engine like the Lotus 4 cylinder jobs.  I do not count cars as mid engined when the engine is just in front of the rear axle though some call it that.  

 

F1 cars being only 60/40 and this accounts for their fairly poor acceleration up to 100 mph when the down force kick ins, hence a MotoGP mangles a F1 car up to this point and probably up to 150-ish.

 

I find it fascinating that manufacturers quote weight distribution to a tenth of a percent.  They use this ideal scenario for a 75 kg driver, no luggage, half a tank a fuel.   Well I was 75 Kgs a few of decades ago when a teenager but clothed more like 100 Kgs now, usually carrying 20 kgs of luggage if laptop and reference books, and fuel I probably would be carrying more like 3/4 a tank in poor weather just in case one gets stuck in bad weather, plus drivers seat back to the last click being 6'1".  Bang goes the manufacturers figures.   But, as mentioned, good thing with RWD cars is all the a plus if moving the weight rearward is better in the winter, not so good for FWD cars.             

Edited 9 January, 201610 yr by lol-lol

Gearbox is behind the engine hence the huge transmission tunnel in the car which means small footwells and offset pedals. There's your compromise for the weight distribution.

The 4 pot petrol models do achieve near 50/50 distribution but the 6 pot has those extra two cylinders in front of the front axle.

 

4pot

 

 

 

6 pot.

 

 

 

Remembered after I posted that the footwells were small & centre console was broad!!...............doh!

 

I would have thought for weight distribution they would have put the gearbox just in front of the rear diff.......but I suppose the marketing dept didn't like the fact that would eat the boot space up........

 

I learnt to drive in a Volvo 340, which surprisingly is a good handling RWD small car having a de Dion rear axle...................later on we had the top end 360GLT which had the 240 series 2lt engine shoe horned into it & the driveshaft enclosed in a torque tube.....very fun to drive!!

OT Sorry.

But the All New 2015 Fabia Hatch and Estate has a hump / tunnel running front to rear.

Really because it was only a re-gigged platform from the Mk2, A1, Polo, Ibiza and needed no new Type Approval.

This was handy for the Fabia S2000, R5 & Polo WRC AWD Rally Cars, the A1 Quattro and the S1 when just some more re-gigging was needed.

 

So hopefully a Fabia Combi AWD might be on the cards sometime in the near future.

Edited 10 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

More power etc for M3,4...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-bmw-m3-and-m4-competition-packages-revealed

Just had a look in my local dealers website. My old M135i remains unsold. Furthermore they have actually increased its price recently lol. They originally advertised it for 24k.... It's now listed at a whopping 27k, Pmsl. Think they are in dreamland if they are hoping to get that, considering you can get a new base spec car for less than that with current discount levels.

Just had a look in my local dealers website. My old M135i remains unsold. Furthermore they have actually increased its price recently lol. They originally advertised it for 24k.... It's now listed at a whopping 27k, Pmsl. Think they are in dreamland if they are hoping to get that, considering you can get a new base spec car for less than that with current discount levels.

So now trying to make £4.5k over your trade-in.

Greedy B......ds! As you say Tom ,no chance.

Edited 16 January, 201610 yr by vrskeith

Just had a look in my local dealers website. My old M135i remains unsold. Furthermore they have actually increased its price recently lol. They originally advertised it for 24k.... It's now listed at a whopping 27k, Pmsl. Think they are in dreamland if they are hoping to get that, considering you can get a new base spec car for less than that with current discount levels.

Awaits the dealer discount promotion -

Was £27k, now £24k

As Pooch says getting ready for an alleged big sale. Standard practice.

April 2015 my local BMW dealer were offering a Nov 14,plated M135i reasonable spec with originally about 300 miles for £25k, it ended up being lent to someone and they stuck another 1500 miles so I walked away.

Edited 16 January, 201610 yr by Defenderben

Awaits the dealer discount promotion -

Was £27k, now £24k

Absolutely! Stinks of "3k off, previously on sale for...". Dealers eh! Lol ;-)

If someone wants to offer and pay £20,000 then as it gets towards 16 plate registrations they might just take your money. But being BMW they will be like Audi, Mercedes etc, pay over the value on the trade in so that their used cars do not appear a depreciation disaster

But then if it is a cash buy that might just need to, after all they are depreciation disaster because the deals 'on tick' over valued them and then were discounting. Smoke and mirrors, finance and Dealer Contributions.

Edited 17 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

Absolutely! Stinks of "3k off, previously on sale for...". Dealers eh! Lol ;-)

May be they are hoping the disappointed M2 wannabes will take an M-lite in lieu, so might squeeze a little more out of it? Only kidding

So Tom, at what speed do you think it is impossible to spin the wheels, in the dry, at this time of year? As it's around freezing out there I thought I would warm the tyres up a bit before picking up the pace and as my friend said as I attempted to accelerate quite quickly (in a straight line on a dual carriageway) at 65mph... "did you do a skid there?" not sure if it's the PSSs or just a bit unlucky, but I don't think I have ever owned a car that lights up the rear tyres as easily...

 

 

 

 

 

...this is mostly a good thing

 

 

btw this wasn't an isolated event tonight :evil:

So Tom, at what speed do you think it is impossible to spin the wheels, in the dry, at this time of year? As it's around freezing out there I thought I would warm the tyres up a bit before picking up the pace and as my friend said as I attempted to accelerate quite quickly (in a straight line on a dual carriageway) at 65mph... "did you do a skid there?" not sure if it's the PSSs or just a bit unlucky, but I don't think I have ever owned a car that lights up the rear tyres as easily...

...this is mostly a good thing

btw this wasn't an isolated event tonight :evil:

The PSS definitely don't work so well in cold weather. I never had any major issues but was definitely getting abit more "squiggle" before I traded it in (needed new boots at that stage too). As you say quite amusing/fun at times!

I don't think I have had straight line squiggle on a dry road at around 70mph before, at least not in something that wasn't a big silly V8 or similar it would make for an interesting road race against something like a diesel Focus cross country. Still it's great fun pulling out of junctions

Like you said a dry road and around freezing.  So the Ambient temp (Air Temp) can be at 2*oC,  and the Dry Road surface (Ground Temp) 

can be 4 Degrees lower, ie -2*oC.

Its what many never think of when the cars Outside Temp Display shows the Air Temp.

 

http://trafficscotland.org/weatherstations

Edited 21 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

I put the tyre temp display up and the air temp was 0-1 degree and the tyres were at -1. Got the fronts up into the early 20s but struggled to warm the rears up as much (which is to be expected). Still, it makes for enormous fun at relatively low speeds

I put the tyre temp display up and the air temp was 0-1 degree and the tyres were at -1. Got the fronts up into the early 20s but struggled to warm the rears up as much (which is to be expected). Still, it makes for enormous fun at relatively low speeds

 

You could just do what the F1 lad's do? Weaving, stamping on the throttle and then straight onto the brakes?

 

That'll sure heat them up!

Heats the tyres up, and a -2*oC or lower road temp and air soon gets them cool again.

But then they do not race on tracks with the surface temp below freezing temps.

 

But now these F1 guys can fit Snow Chains there are sorted, sort of.

You could just do what the F1 lad's do? Weaving, stamping on the throttle and then straight onto the brakes?

 

That'll sure heat them up!

You've seen my normal driving then

I'm sorely tempted by one of these if the figures work out. My localish dealer has a 13 plate for 24k. Auto, pro nav, h/k sound, cruise with brake, advanced bluetooth and heated seats...exact spec I want.