Which diesel is best? 1.9PD, 1.6CR or something else

[robt100]

Hi everyone!

I'm currently running a mk2 pre-facelift 1.9PD estate as my work car. It's coming up to the end of the 12month warranty I bought it with so I'm looking for a change. And thats the problem...

I started off with an old mk1 fabia estate with the 1.9 and averaged 62-68mpg calculated on each fill up. Carrying a boot full of equipment the whole time.
Moved to the Octy with the same engine, but only get 54-58mpg calculated. Which is disappointing given the Fabias economy on the same equipment. That and I bought it low mileage, but realise now theres no point with the mileage im doing, depreciation takes it away it seconds.

The octy is worth 4-5k by the looks of things, but im unsure what to do....
a) go back to an 06/07 Fabia PD and hope its as good as the last, but have a car that doesn't feel as high in quality in the cabin. But save a few ££s in price

go for another 1.9pd pre (or post) facelift. Hope for the best on economy but go one up from my elegance model to an L&k, and trade of the mpg for comfort.

C) try and get a facelift 1.6 with the CR engine....but heard negative comments about the mpg, though id be buying them with 100k+ on the clock so should be bedded in?

D) Something else??? (engine wise, nothing non VAG!)

The car will mainly be used for A/B roads. around 500-600miles a week. With a boot full to the brim of equipment, maybe 80-100kgs? Looking at getting minimum of 60mpg average, preferably closer to 65mpg. And a high spec (found the cruise control and 6cd changer life-savers). So really elegance or L&k. Possibly a good specced SE model if there's some extras.
Budget is £5k tops. Maybe a touch more if needed.
With a flurry of 'new' used cars coming in the next month, i need to make my decision! I know people will say go and try the engines (which I will). But id rather find out what works best in the real world and learn to work with it, than pick what suits my driving and be worse off.
 

[silver1011]

After a life with 1.9 PD105's I think you might be a little disappointed with the 1.6 CR105.

 

The power delivery on the CR is very different to the PD, much more linear compared to the PD's punch.

 

It is the durability of the 1.9 I like, I'd be looking for one of the last FL MkII Octavia's with the DPF'less 1.9.

 

But you should drive the 1.6, I'm sure fuel consumption will be where you need it to be, especially if you find a Greenline...

[robt100]

thanks for being the first! Can the 1.6 be mapped to a greenline 'spec'? or is there other gear ratio/aerodynamic trickery involved?

[moley]

A Fabia 1.9 will return a better MPG than an Octavia 1.9 as the Octavia is a bigger and heavier car. I have had 1.9 pd's and I'm now on my second 1.6 CR. As Silver1011 points out the 1.6 lacks that punch that the 1.9 gives. The 1.6 is a bit more like driving a petrol engine, the power is more even and a lot smoother. MPG wiser I have found my first 1.6 was slightly better than the 1.9, my second 1.6 is DSG and it's slightly down on the manual box, but I'll live with that.

Overall I prefer the 1.6 to the 1.9, but you are up and down the box more in the 1.6, which is why I think the DSG makes the 1.6CR a better drive.

[robt100]

what were your mpg figures moley? and what kind of driving?

[jmattley]

Get a 2.0L!!

[moley]

what were your mpg figures moley? and what kind of driving?

I'm doing around 30,000 miles a year & I carry quite a bit of gear in the Octavia Combi. Up and down the country with a lot of motorway miles I'm getting 52-54 with the 1.6 DSG, which was about the same as the 1.9. the Manual 1.6 was doing about 54 - 56. This is calculated on filling up and not on the trip computer.

I have had journeys when the motorways been busy and everyone's stuck at 50 mph then the MPG is pushing 60.

[Phil-E]

Surely it would make more sense to just keep the current car?

 

Sure it's out of warranty but all the more reason to keep it... can get it serviced cheaper (DIY?) and there should be very little to worry about going wrong.

 

As above the 1.6 is completely different. I had an Ibiza 1.6 105 FR for 7 weeks and I didn't like it really. It went ok and liked to be revved but that's about it IMO.

 

Phil

[marcusthehat]

I would dispute/disagree with the 1.6CR needing/liking to be revved.

With the DSG making the decisions I found that it quite uncannily replicated my change points in the 1.9TDI 110HP Galaxy.

Preferring to change up early, and being well fit to do so.

At just about/just over 2000rpm (using the optimium torque I imagine)

Yes, when pushed, it will freely rev, and "fill the clock" , but this should be exceptional.

cheers

Marcus

Edited 27 August, 2014 by dieseldogg

[g_tee]

I'd just keep it.

 

I have a 2.0TDI 140 I've had for 3 years and I'm very happy with it. I don't want to change it mainly because I cannot afford to but when I think about it I have no reason to. I'm looking for another 4 years at least out of it as long as nothing goes bang.

[robt100]

Problem is, it doesn't do the economy i need it to. Just trying to find out if 54-58mpg is normal for an octy 1.9 and if the 1.6 would be any good with a full load. Going to change it either way, its just to what that is the question....

[g_tee]

So spending a load of money on a new car just for economy? I don't think that makes financial sense.

 

54-58 is not bad - when was it serviced last?

 

How do you drive it?

 

I'd go for a Fabia if I were you if you are determined - the same engine with a heavier car - it's obvious you won't get the same economy. Am I missing something?

Edited 27 August, 2014 by g_tee

[robt100]

Less toys to play with, and a bit less comfort with the fabia. That and I went through droplinks every 3 months and Console bushes yearly. And its spending whatever money I get from selling the octy.
Driving wise its accelerate with maximum engine efficiency, then keep it light footed and fast through the bends to save fuel (hence the droplinks and bushes on the fabia!)
The aim is 60+ Mpg on summer fuel.

[g_tee]

Get a 1.9SDI then? or order a new Greenline?

 

Really don't know what other options you've got?

 

60+ is possible even on my 2.0TDI PD on a run though but I don't carry as much gear as you

[ruiatalmeida]

Hi,

 

I have a combi 1.6 TDI cr. I do drive it with some load on the boot (weekends out) that amounts to aprox 160kg. I get averages of 4.3 l/100km which equates to 66 mpg UK. The thing is when I do that I drive with economy in mind (change between 2000/2300 rpm). I get about 4.5 l/100 km (63 mpg) on normal weekly driving to and from work (very steep hills and heavy traffic mix of 45% motorway and 55% b-roads) with no economy in mind but also no extra load on the car (just 2 people). When I am running it sedately I can get as low as 3.9 l/100 km 72 mpg (b-roads sticking to about 80km/h) and when on German Autobahn (I live in Germany but work in Luxembourg) I can get as low as 5.3 l/ 100 km (53 mpg).

 

My regular brim to brim calculations with week runs and weekend loads are 4.4 l/ 100 km which is 64mpg lowering a bit when I have long motorway runs to make.

 

It mainly depends on how you drive it, when my girlfriend drove the car for a few weeks when I was out she only got around 5.1 l/100 km which is 55 mpg.

 

But, that said, I do agree with some of the comments here, I see no sense in changing car for the fractional gains in economy as if you spend an extra 1000 or 2000 on the exchange it will take you 1000's of miles/kms to get that back in fuel savings. Maybe, and please do not take this as an insult or anything like that, just checking the tyre pressure regularly may help with improving the economy (not opening windows etc....) and if the issue is warranty check prices for warranty providers (but check their coverage as well). 

[robt100]

Thanks ruiatalmeida, that answers a lot of questions, though ill have to take the mpg with a pinch of salt as I gained about 4-6mpg on European fuel the other week when I was in Germany. I would only be spending what I get from the octy sale. Plus maybe £500. which at 5mpg average increase in fuel economy is about 1 year of driving!
Looking around it seems its either a facelift octy 1.6, fabia 2 1.6, or a mk1 1.4 fabia as my options. just dont know if mk2 fabia has enough boot space. and its ugly as anything!

[Phil-E]

So if you're lucky you are going to get up to 66mpg. It will take you a long time to break even with the cost of changing car for just 8mpg.

 

If you look here most of the cars there are getting about 60mpg and they are the 1.6. If you are getting 58 in your 1.9 I'd say that's pretty good.

 

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/45-Skoda/0-All_models.html?fueltype=1&power_s=103&power_e=106&gearing=1&powerunit=2

 

I think also the 1.6 will see a bigger decline compared to the 1.9 when hauling heavy gear around.

 

Phil

[pipsyp]

In fairness the Octavia with the same engine as the Fabia is a heavier car so its not likely to return as good consumption figures; 54-58 mpg is pretty bloody good anyway (betters the 47-48 my MK3 2.0 TDi 150 is returning long term....a car supposedly capable of 67mpg).

Like for like the 1.6 CR is the way to go, the change from PD to CR injection for the first gen CR motors did mean a loss of low end punch compared to their PD counterparts but a 1.6 is as quick overall as a 1.9 if driven a bit harder and is a damn sight quieter. The 2.0 CR is plenty quicker but still feels a bit weak compared to the 2.0 PD. It is only on the latest EA288 gen diesels that VAG have really upped their game and make CR really work.

For me a 1.6 or 2.0 SE Connect or SE Plus is a good bet if you can find one.

[muunster19]

Having had all these engines in mk2 octavias only I would say the old 1.9 pd is the best allrounder , I have currently a 1.6cr and find it to be a big disappointment  .It  returns around 10 mpg less than the previous 1.9pd and feels less powerful . We have ran two 1.9tdi pd   up to 200k without any engine issues and no reduction in performance or mpg . In short I would seek out a 1.9pd without DPF .    

[flamazine]

Ive had a 1.6 octavia cr se plus  dsg for just over a week now . I'm amazed with the fuel economy and the power. Ive gone from an octy vrs  2.0 tdi to a fabia 1.4 tsi vrs to a superb 2.0 cr 170 elegance and now on the 1.6.

Just done a trip to cornwall and it returned 55mpg .i did 330 miles on under half a tank and ran round cornwall all week on the rest .Refilled with it showing a range of over 100 miles .just got home following a 5 hour trip and still got over half a tank left. I wasnt pottering either. So what if it hasn't got the toys the superb had or the oomph both the vrs's had . When i had the Fabia VRS the best i got was 300 miles to a full tank driving like an old women.When you put your foot down it goes a few seconds slower than all the other cars iv'e had but to be honest you hardly notice the difference. The fuel is cheaper the road tax is cheaper and the fuel economy is miles better. the tyres are cheaper. God I sound like my dad.

Give me the 1.6 cr any time!

[robt100]

Well, just to spite me its decided to behave on mpg. Managed 73.3mpg on a 150 mile round trip today! Bloomin cars.

[marcusthehat]

With most diesels now getting around/and over  50mpg for any sort of reasonable length runs.

Taking into account different terrain, driving techniques, vehicle loading and traffic.

We are well into "the law of diminshing returns".

Especially as any car claiming exceptional fuel economy, can only obtain this economy if driven sympathatically, in suitable road and traffic conditions (and actually the diminishing returns thing again)

So if 55 is relatively easily obtainable and 65 is a goal to chase.

Do the sums.

I have.

P.S.

So has the Son who can just about coax 40mpg outta the 1.0l petrol Arosa he bought for £500.00, and has put through 2 successive  NI MOT tests at negligable expense.

And he would like sommat doing nearer 60mpg. i.e. a diesel.

But he only does about 15,000 per annum.

So despite having more than enough cash sitting in a bank account.

He will run the Arosa until it becomes mechanically unsound/beyond economic repair.

Because the extra fuel cost is negligible, in the greater scheme of things.

And he hopes to pick up a loaded/well specced diesel Fabia II, after the new 2015 Fabia III model dampens old model prices.

cheers

Marcus

Edited 6 September, 2014 by dieseldogg

[davidwhite]

hi, having changed from a fabia 11 1.9TDI TO  FL OCTY estate 1.9tdi I understand your remarks regarding 'build quality' but as already stated the octy is bigger and heavier, I'm getting similar mpg to you and to be honest I'm happy enough, the wheel pressure advice is sound, also have you considered dropping the back seats and spreading you 'load' over a bigger area, I was always taught that weight carried is best distributed between the front and back axles, I too looked long and hard for a mk1 fabia estate but they are thin on the ground and good ones command a unrealistic price tag, because you and I ain't the only people in the know...........

by all means change your car for a better spec or less miles on the clock, but to change to possibly gain increased mpg well that increase will have to be considerable to re-coup your outlay 

[robt100]

With the mileage I'm doing, an 8mpg increase (from 55-62mpg average, which is the difference between my fabia and octavia normally) comes in at just under £500 a year. So it wouldnt take too long to re-coup. Id probably make a gain by selling the octy and buying the fabia too. It's just if I can live with the comfort and build quality factor.

[ufitsy]

Something Else.

 

In real world driving I reckon the 2.0 CR takes some beating, it pulls well from low down (before the turbo kicks in) so you can drive it like a diesel unlike some cars with smaller engines that have to be revved negating the whole point of a diesel.

 

There's no replacement for displacement (yet).