Why didn't the vRS sell better?

[vrskeith]

Will be interesting to see how many new MINI Cooper S's and Cooper SD's get shifted by BMW.  

 

With the new BMW 135i being launched next year also.

 

How many Fiesta ST so far?

 

Peugeot GTI 206 so far, haven't seen that many on the road. 

Edited 1 September, 2014 by vrskeith

[BossFox]

I was wondering what people thought was the reason why the Fabia vRS wasn’t a sales success compared with cars like the Fiesta ST?

 

The Fabia was DSG/Auto, didn't handle that well and has a tall/ungainly stance.

The Fiesta is manual, handles really well and is a lot more fun to drive.

 

Looks are not a strong point of either car, so you can discount that.

 

That about the long and short of it.

 

 

I know some people like the DSG etc... but they are in a minority.

The Fabia is easier to drive, less fun and more practical.

The Fiesta is way better as a "hot hatch" which is what a 180bhp 4m long car should be.

 

 

The option of a factory warranty approved 215bhp remap is the icing on the ST cake.

[BossFox]

How many Fiesta ST so far?

 

Around 6,000 in a year.

Quarters 2 and 3 not showing yet.

Have been on sale for just under a year and a half.

 

OP quoted ST-2 figures, there is obviously an ST-1 and ST-3 too.

[Sparkly]

Lack of commercial success and "is this a good car?" are two very different debates - one does not follow the other etc.

 

The Mk1 comparisons are unfair as many would say that the stock PD130 powered Mk1 Fabia vRS barely qualifies as a hot hatch in their books, but we can see that people have a near fanatical obsession with how great they are.  Hot Hatch, maybe?  Good car for many owners, certainly? Tuneable, no doubt! Commercial Success? ................. I've never seen the figures tbh, most people I know bought theirs second hand.

 

The Mk2 is (IMO) a corking little car and (IMO) a big part of the lack of commercial success is that people for the most part actually don't know just how good it is.  Some wouldn't even consider a test drive because it's an Auto, doesn't quite make it to the magic 200bhp, probably can't imagine how torquey a 1.4 can be, don't even know it's twincharged.

 

A Hot Hatch Skoda is a pretty niche thing to start with, certainly amongst members on here I see a lot of people going from Octy 1 to 2 to 3, so alienating the Mk1 boys was unarguably a really terrible marketing decision.

 

The average person on here will know a car inside and out before buying it, research it and the alternatives to death.  But I would still wager the truly informed hot hatch buyer is still in the minority versus the people who want a certain badge, certain bragging rights on power, a certain look and may bypass the mechanics and real world performance entirely.  You then have those that fancy hot hatch imagery but are put off by the combined costs and look for a warm diesel alternative, in my recent car change I test drove a CR170 Octavia vRS and without the objective of wanting to offend, in all aspects I felt like I had gotten into a sales reps mile muncher, not a hot hatch, the Mk2 Fabia for me far and away embodies hot hatchery more than a stock diesel Octy.  But I also know what a success the Octy vRS Derv version is commercially.

 

 

 

And now that I have talked myself around in circles without making any real point (or sense), I'm off for a little lie down.

[fabiamk2SE]

I forgot the Fiats & the BMWs ,

as for the S1, we will see how many of those sell, they might get more than the 500 or so A1 185ps they Register (sold maybe) in the UK.

I saw an audi s1 yesterday.

The first one iv ever seen.

There just dont seem many of those about.

It did look nice!

[BossFox]

Good points Sparkly, but I have to say that the mk2 in stock form is really not a corking car, considering it's a 180bhp shopping trolley.

But as you say, personal opinion.

 

The stock handling is way short of the mark for a car of the Fabia's size and power.

It rolls too much and the ride is too harsh.  Two negatives.  Usually you have one of them to allow for a positive, like ride comfort or fantastic handling.

 

Oh and I agree on the Octy mk3.

[Chorlton]

It didn't sell to me initially because I don't like the way it looks.  I did like the idea of the DSG and the twincharged engine.

 

But then the engine problems started to be more widely reported.  Anyone doing some research on a new car would surely come across all the oil usage problems reported on this site alone and be put off owning one.

 

It's all very well having a warranty to cover problems but it's the attendant hassle of sorting it all out that would put me off.  Modern cars should be reliable not flaky and fragile.

[Ootohere]

Hardly likely to be many S1 seen on the roads at present, they only started getting delivered last month.

 

As to the New Fiesta ST selling,  so they should, they are a proper 3 door Hot Hatch for not lots of money.

There were none available new in 2010- 2012 though.

 

The 2004 - 2008 FiestaST sold 15,000 in 4 years in the UK, which was much the same number as the MK1 Fabia vRS,

& about 500 Fiesta ST 500. (Obviously limited to 500) 148 BHP

Edited 1 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[BossFox]

Yes, never checked before but it seems the mk1 Fabia VRS sold a bit over 10,000 in 4 or 5 years.

Not bad really, for a car Skoda made that was aimed at a whole new market it had never tapped before.

 

But personally I always felt the mk1 was more "in tune" with the Skoda brand.  Warm performance and cheap running costs.

 

 

The mk2 was also aimed at a new market.

There had never been a fast auto small Skoda before.

Wether this was their choice or because that's the only drivetrain they were offered to make a VRS I'm not sure.

You'd have thought the option of a mk1 update would have been sensible and could have been sold alongside the more powerful petrol/auto car.

[Ootohere]

The MK1 Fabia vRS was not a cheap car new, quite an expensive purchases actually.

when they stopped production they were about the same price as you can go into a Skoda Dealers today and buy a MK2 with under 1,000 miles on it.

 

Ford sell / lease more than treble the Number of all Fiesta models in the UK than the Total Number of all Skodas sold in the UK in a Year.

 

Build them well,  

use your Motorsport Heritage properly,  dont just speak about it like Skoda do in Press Releases, pile them high, they will sell.

Edited 1 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[BossFox]

Mk1 was around £12k seven years ago compared to around £17k for a mk2.

Not sure you can compare new and used prices.

Used prices don't mean a bargain that gets more new orders and improves sales figures.

 

The sensible money on the mk2 was the VAT free deal.  I always thought that made a mk2 viable.

Without that, it's too expensive and depreciate is far too high.

 

I nearly bought one new VAT free.

 

I see people buying them now, at or near list price for a car that's being discontinued and I have to wonder...

[Brian69]

Mk1 was around £12k seven years ago compared to around £17k for a mk2.

Not sure you can compare new and used prices.

Used prices don't mean a bargain that gets more new orders and improves sales figures.

 

The sensible money on the mk2 was the VAT free deal.  I always thought that made a mk2 viable.

Without that, it's too expensive and depreciate is far too high.

 

I nearly bought one new VAT free.

 

I see people buying them now, at or near list price for a car that's being discontinued and I have to wonder...

Aye, as much as I'm a fan I wouldn't pay list price - either VAT free or nearly new.

[Ootohere]

Could you buy the last Model Fabia MK1 vRS for £12,000,  if you walked in with Cash ?

 

£17,000 does not matter,

i can buy a 14 Plate MK2 for £13,500 this afternoon.

 

People buying at high prices are talking Finance, Service Deals , PCP etc,  thats not what a car costs, thats what Cars on Finance cost.

 

The MK1 was great, super, fantastic, not cheap & a Diesel that suited those wanting a nippy Diesel.

I understand those that dislike Mk2's, & bought and did not like.

Or did not buy them.

 

But 2010- 2014 many have had fun in Twinchargers, not many sold though if it is only 3,000 in 4 years.

 

Depreciation on a Mk2 from the Price People Bought them for until 3 years later was less than 50% , often less than 40% of the price paid 

till 3 years later.

Better than many VWG Cars.

 

The Mk1 Fabia vRS is one of those special cars that demand keeps the Second Hand Value high because they are a Cult car, 

one that Owners Looked after mostly.

Even though many are now dogs with many Past Registered Keepers & a bit like Triggers Broom.

Edited 1 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[BossFox]

£17,000 does not matter,

i can buy a 14 Plate MK2 for £13,500 this afternoon.

 

It does when you are quoting sales figures because sales figures are based on new cars ordered.

Simple fact is, if they cost £13.5k new they'd have sold more.

[Toxicvrs]

It does when you are quoting sales figures because sales figures are based on new cars ordered.

Simple fact is, if they cost £13.5k new they'd have sold more.

This it's meant to be a budget hot hatch which wasn't really the right price for the market it was aimed at!

[Ootohere]

Skoda, VW, Ford, Vauxhall etc do not Quote Sales Figures.  It often says 'Sales', Cars Sold this Quarter, This Year etc.

 

They actually Quote 'First Registered'.  Because quite possibly a Customer never Bought the Car, a Dealership did.

 

Now Volkswagen and Audi have Lots of Dealerships, and if Each Gets 2 Demonstrators Register of Each Model Each Month. 

thats a Few Thousand Cars that are then Sell Used.

 

Skoda did it with the Octavia Mk3 vRS, Demonstrators & Cars in Showrooms, and if the Showroom Car is there at the End of the Month it gets Registered.

People Might Line Up to Order & Wait for Cars to be Available, butnot take the New Car in the Showroom at the Crzy Price the Dealer Specced it up to,

and will not Discount, But 3,000 /3 Months later or Before Someone Books it.

 

Audi Did that with the Polo GTI,  Seat Did it with the Ibiza Cupra,  they Do it with the Leon Cupra 280.

They all do it,

On months there are very Few New Cars Delivered for Registering to Private Buyers or Company Buyers,

the Dealership will Register say 50 Polo GTI, then these are sold as Demonstrators. Or as happened sat a long time not selling.

**Some Manufacturers Export Cars out of the UK when they are not Selling, to Protect the Residuals.**

Audi would never do such a thing!!!

 

Fiat First Register lots, They Are Hire Cars at Airports, Driving School Cars, Fleet Cars,

as are Fords, Vauxhall, BMW, Audi, VW etc.

 

These are Used Cars in 1, 2 or 3 years, often Leased, so Solde to a Finance Company, and that Finance Company is owned by the Manufacturer Often.

Edited 1 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Brian69]

Could you buy the last Model Fabia MK1 vRS for £12,000,  if you walked in with Cash ?

 

£17,000 does not matter,

i can buy a 14 Plate MK2 for £13,500 this afternoon.

 

People buying at high prices are talking Finance, Service Deals , PCP etc,  thats not what a car costs, thats what Cars on Finance cost.

 

The MK1 was great, super, fantastic, not cheap & a Diesel that suited those wanting a nippy Diesel.

I understand those that dislike Mk2's, & bought and did not like.

Or did not buy them.

 

But 2010- 2014 many have had fun in Twinchargers, not many sold though if it is only 3,000 in 4 years.

 

Depreciation on a Mk2 from the Price People Bought them for until 3 years later was less than 50% , often less than 40% of the price paid 

till 3 years later.

Better than many VWG Cars.

 

The Mk1 Fabia vRS is one of those special cars that demand keeps the Second Hand Value high because they are a Cult car, 

one that Owners Looked after mostly.

Even though many are now dogs with many Past Registered Keepers & a bit like Triggers Broom.

I have to say depreciation has been in line (or actually slightly better) than I expected but then I bought mine when it was a year old. It's now four years old and I plan to keep it for one more year - four years is the longest I've ever owned a car.

[BossFox]

Skoda, VW, Ford, Vauxhall etc do not Quote Sales Figures.  It often says 'Sales', Cars Sold this Quarter, This Year etc.

 

They actually Quote 'First Registered'.  Because quite possibly a Customer never Bought the Car, a Dealership did.

 

Now Volkswagen and Audi have Lots of Dealerships, and if Each Gets 2 Demonstrators Register of Each Model Each Month. 

thats a Few Thousand Cars that are then Sell Used.

 

Skoda did it with the Octavia Mk3 vRS, Demonstrators & Cars in Showrooms, and if the Showroom Car is there at the End of the Month it gets Registered.

People Might Line Up to Order & Wait for Cars to be Available, butnot take the New Car in the Showroom at the Crzy Price the Dealer Specced it up to,

and will not Discount, But 3,000 /3 Months later or Before Someone Books it.

 

Audi Did that with the Polo GTI,  Seat Did it with the Ibiza Cupra,  they Do it with the Leon Cupra 280.

They all do it,

On months there are very Few New Cars Delivered for Registering to Private Buyers or Company Buyers,

the Dealership will Register say 50 Polo GTI, then these are sold as Demonstrators.

 

Fiat First Register lots, They Are Hire Cars at Airports, Driving School Cars, Fleet Cars,

as are Fords, Vauxhall, BMW, Audi, VW etc.

 

These are Used Cars in 1, 2 or 3 years, often Leased, so Solde to a Finance Company, and that Finance Company is owned by the Manufacturer Often.

 

The word of note in all that assumption is "if".

[fabiamk2SE]

This it's meant to be a budget hot hatch which wasn't really the right price for the market it was aimed at!

Well. Yeah.

But then how would they price the lower models? Theyd end up being cheaper than a Dacia!

[Ootohere]

Well it is 'If', all an Urban Myth,

 if you are a Transport Manager and do not work close with Dealerships, just Spend lots with them.

Maybe even spend too much with them if you are a willing Customer.

Edited 1 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Toxicvrs]

Well. Yeah.

But then how would they price the lower models? Theyd end up being cheaper than a Dacia!

Managed it with the Fabia mk1 :P

[Toxicvrs]

if you are a Transport Manager and do not work close with Dealerships, just Spend lots with them.

Maybe even spend too much with them if you are a willing Customer.

How the hell is that of any relevance to any of this discussion?

[fabiamk2SE]

Well. Its not easy for anybody to say is it.

None of us know exactly how much it costs to produce a vrs and what the profit margins are.

Plus of course, they have to price in for a replacement engine haha .

[BossFox]

Well it is 'If', all an Urban Myth,

 if you are a Transport Manager and do not work close with Dealerships, just Spend lots with them.

 

I think we are going a bit off topic.

 

In answer to "Why didn't the VRS sell better?" I don't think it was because you could buy them as ex-demos for £13.5k.

In the years I've been using my local dealer they've rarely ever had a new or demo mk2 Fabia VRS for sale.  Because they just don't sell them quick enough...

[Toxicvrs]

Well. Its not easy for anybody to say is it.

None of us know exactly how much it costs to produce a vrs and what the profit margins are.

Plus of course, they have to price in for a replacement engine haha .

And plenty of oil barrels in the dealerships