When is a full service a full service?

[notyeti]

My 3yr old Yeti just had its second variable service, which came up at 30000 miles.  I rang around Skoda dealers to get the best price. I should have smelt a rat then, as the garages were asking me did I want this extra? Did I want that extra? I said I wanted the service that is scheduled, not the 40,000, not the 30,000 + whatever, I wanted what Skoda stipulates for the second variable service - thinking, wrongly as it turned out, that the garages were trying to add a little extra work on that wasn't really necessary.  I chose the best price, which was £100 cheaper than the nearest Skoda dealer.

 

When I went in with the car I was asked if I wanted a brake fluid change at £50.  I asked why would I want that - if it is needed it is part of the service, surely?  Well it is not,  but it is recommended by Skoda after 3yrs. Apparently the brake fluid system is sealed and they recommend unsealing it after3 years, replacing the fluid, and then changing it every 2yrs after that.  If it is recommended by Skoda, then for me that is amount to being part of a required service.

 

Two things leave me annoyed. 

 

  - I had got the best price for the service and then was quoted another £50 for something I really don't have a choice about as I don't have the technical knowledge to disagree with a manufacturer recommendation.  I might have got a better price elsewhere.  On this, the garage, which was only following Skoda policy, agreed, and gave me a 40% discount on the fluid change. 

 

 - Apparently this "recommended but not included in the standard service" is standard industry practice.  But isn't it illogical and absurd - and verging on sharp practice.  What is special about brake fluid that it is not in the standard service. Why not leave the oil out,  or some checks, lets just do what we feel like doing, and quote the customer a low service price and then offer some "manufacturer recommendations" at an inflated price when it is too late to quibble.  Okay, the defence it "it was mentioned on the phone"  but obscured by other non-essential offers on the phone, and being dealt with by booking person who might not know the difference.

 

Next time I am better prepared, and will check what  a full service really is before  accepting the price.  But I still feel this is the motor trade up to its tricks - encouraged by the manufacturers.  My feeling was the garage was an unwilling participant in this performance - after all it had the irate customer to deal with.

 

What do you think?

[Ryeman]

My impression, from the Australian perspective, is that over the last 20years, new car prices have been in decline in not just the straight price but the adjusted (for inflation) one in particular to the extent that a dealership's profit now comes more from servicing/parts margins than new sales and to such an extent that the modern car is simply recyclable white goods with massive depreciation making them, in many cases, uneconomic to maintain/repair.

You could treasure a Healy3000 but I can't think of any today.

[Zarniwoop]

Its been going on for decades.  I remember back in the 1980's taking my Vauxhall Cavalier 1.5 diesel in for a service (oil changes every 5000miles back then!),  knowing it was due for a cambelt change as this was scheduled in the service book.  When I collected the car,  it hadn't been done,  and I asked why.  I was told that I hadn't specified it,  and that it would cost me another huge sum of money if I wanted it done.  I "blew my top" very noisily in the showroom (the service desk was situated in the sales area) making it perfectly clear what I thought about Vauxhall's policy on service pricing.

I was invited into the manager's office to discuss it,  but insisted on discussing it in public.  My reasoning was that the cambelt change was specified (not just recommended) in the service schedule,  and that a fixed price service should include everything scheduled for that mileage interval.  They couldn't really defend their position with potential customers listening in,  and I won!  I never found out if they changed the policy as a result,  as the 1.5 Cavalier diesel was woefully under-powered and I didn't keep it long.  I suspect they simply changed "specified" for "recommended".

[nbJubilee]

In the good old days one received a proper service schedule listing every item and mileage or time changes. Eg Brake Fluid at two years because of water absorption and spark plug or cam belt intervals.

Recommendations for stop/start short journey or fast/long regimes were listed. One knew the correct way to own a safe vehicle.

Checking a needed new belt by markings on the existing item confirmed changes. That way Service Managers were presented with proof in any dispute. Good garages were confirmed and advisorary wear noted and believable.

Eh Lad, pipes rubbing away theere. Fixed that for Thee!

Don't get that any more does one?

[Guest]

This what they class as servicing on the Skoda UK site, http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/national-pricing/servicing 

[fordfan]

You'll find that alot of dealers will use a menu pricing structure where it's easier for both the customer and the dealer to price the job up.  There would be no point in having a price for a 60,000 mile service including a cam belt if your engine doesn't have a cam belt.  A brake fluid change is recommended item, that's why it has it's own separate price, so you can have it with or without a service.

 

It also helps when shopping around for prices, if a dealer priced up a full service as including the brake fluid changes and cam belts, they're going to look pretty expensive compared to the fast fits £149 full service offer and people will think that they're pricing like for like.  We priced up a cam belt on a diesel Octavia, full kit, water pump & coolant, customer got another price £200 cheaper and phoned us up to say that we were too expensive and out to rip him off.  Two months later his car was towed into us with a seized water pump and a wrecked engine.

[looby]

I had a Golf Mk V and the ABS pump failed causing the Electronc Stability Program to cease functioning after 6 years. After checking my service history VW paid for the cost (in excess of £1000) but they would not have done so if the brake fluid schedule had not been adhered to as it's all part of the same system.....

[nomdeplume]

I had a major service on my Yeti at a main dealer last week, before which I asked for (and got) a detailed itemised quotation. There was a price for brake fluid change and they said it would only be done if necessary. They checked the water content of the existing fluid and declared it OK for another year. So I am happy with the openness of the way they dealt with me. No surprises or "extras".

[nomdeplume]

I should add that it was a UK main dealer in Wiltshire.

[Llanigraham]

Sorry "notyeti" but I see no examples of "bad/sharp practice" at all.

As others have said the brake fluid change is an advisory item, and never has been a service item.

And lets get away from this "full service" idea, that went out years ago when cars were given a basic service at 6k and a "full" service at 12k. Nowadays car are often serviced "on demand" or in your case on a variable mileage/use/time basis.

[Anzio]

Can anyone explain how the brake fluid system is sealed? I do my own servicing, and when I changed my brake fluid I didn't see any "seal" other than unscrewing the cap on the brake fluid reservoir.

[silver1011]

Considering you paid £100 for a service and £50 - 40% for the brake fluid then I reckon you got a great deal.

Skoda's lowest cost service is £139 with the brake fluid on top at £49.

You don't need to be mechanically minded to understand what is required. Spending a few minutes reading the service book or browsing these forums can save you hundreds of pounds.

[Tom Clarke]

I really don't understand why you're making a big fuss about it?

[Ryeman]

Can anyone explain how the brake fluid system is sealed? I do my own servicing, and when I changed my brake fluid I didn't see any "seal" other than unscrewing the cap on the brake fluid reservoir.

From what I recall there is a rubber 'bellows' in the cap that follows the drop in fluid level ensuring it remains sealed from the atmosphere.

[notyeti]

Thanks for your comments.  It was not a big deal, just I expected different. The motor trade has improved so much - but not quite as much as I had imagined.

 

To me the matter is simple.  Like the Aussie said, a car is like a white good, nothing special.  I don't know how it works or how to keep it going safely and reliably.  I expect the manufacturer/dealer to look after that. It makes no sense to ask me if something needs doing or not, I don't know.  My expectation of variable servicing is that the car monitors itself, it can tell me or the dealer what is required, based individually on the monitors in the car.  Hey, it can even use my phone to tell me! 

[Huskoda]

I had a Golf Mk V and the ABS pump failed causing the Electronc Stability Program to cease functioning after 6 years. After checking my service history VW paid for the cost (in excess of £1000) but they would not have done so if the brake fluid schedule had not been adhered to as it's all part of the same system.....

A free replacement is standard if it was the Teves MK60 fault. Unless you own a Skoda. Because...errmmm, anyone?

 

Not all manufacturers are like this, though. I booked our other car in for a service and asked about brake fluid change and was pleasantly surprised they said its included as its on the schedule.

[Obadiah]

This worries me, as I have relied on the dealer to do what is right/needed. I am currently waiting for them to bother to get back to me! While we were ordereing the wife's Yeti the subject of my Octy came up, and there was a query as to whether the Haldex oil should have/had been changed. I emailed them today about this!!

Also worries me as mine is from the era of the ABS problems!

Edited 29 September, 2014 by Obadiah

[Huskoda]

Yes, Haldex is every 40,000 miles.

 

Though, the only thing you ever really can rely on getting in the service is an oil and filter change. Everything else is pretty much optional. Therefore ignored.

[trundlenut]

Yes, Haldex is every 40,000 miles.

Though, the only thing you ever really can rely on getting in the service is an oil and filter change. Everything else is pretty much optional. Therefore ignored.

The newer haldex system need oil changes every 3 years, not mileage based.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Ryeman]

^^^^^^Mine spent its first 2 years in storage before being registered and has only been on the road for 8months/ 21,000km, so on that basis it's due in February.

[Obadiah]

Well, the garage rang, and admitted that the Haldex should have been serviced. I also checked the service book, which says 4 years, no mileage. So, I now have to give up half a day to go and get it done.......

Thanks all for the advice!

[silver1011]

I hope you are getting a discount for the extra hassle!?

[Ryeman]

So if you're looking at a second hand car, a stamped service book isn't all it seems if you have to question it and undermines you faith in FSH.

[33q]

Just dropped mine off for second annual service....£179

 

I declined the optional air con check

[Anzio]

There was nothing like a "rubber bellows" in the cap on my brake fluid reservoir. I was thinking maybe it was another ploy by the garage trying to make it sound as if only they could do it.