In Australia, we call those people 'dyno queens'. I've seen a video of a car that struggled to get started in a burnout comp with a 3l turbocharged inline 6. It took almost 30 secs of barely spinning before the car came on boost and fried the tyres (when it did it was impressive). Completely useless as a car though. Car was supposed to have 1000hp, but I reckon off the line our Honda jazz would spank it...

Well, looking at the shape of the power and torque curves, the result looks pretty handy, in terms of driveability, no nasty peaks. Gain appears decent too, certainly in terms of area under the curve.

It drops off at 5k because of restrictions in the system, maybe turbo size, exhaust configuration, or combination of a few factors, but it doesn't necessarily mean it can't make a given figure just because it tails off at 5k.

I have little interest in dyno figures just sharing results as the car does feel stronger than the 220 quoted by skoda. This is from experience of owning and driving numerous cars close to this power output.

Dyno's are like photographers, they profit more by showing their subjects within the best possible light. All public rolling roads are inaccurate to some degree and IMO most are bias towards over-reading. People who tune their cars tend to chase bigger numbers and will be happier parting with their money if the numbers look bigger.

Which of the following are you more likely to pay for?

Hyperthetical Dyno #1

Stock power 220bhp / Stage 1 264bhp (20% increase)

Hyperthetical Dyno #2

Stock power 250bhp / Stage 1 300bhp (20% increase)

Perhaps I am a cynic, but I have tuned 4 of my cars on different dyno's and they have all read above quoted figures at stock.

Of course, however I'm more interested in how it feels to me on the road and as already mentioned a few times, my car is stronger than it should be so if I achieve a 50bhp increase and around 75flbt increase on how it is performing right now, I'd be very happy.

 

Tailoring maps is important as not everyone is a dyno queen as pointed out by another member.

In Australia, we call those people 'dyno queens'. I've seen a video of a car that struggled to get started in a burnout comp with a 3l turbocharged inline 6. It took almost 30 secs of barely spinning before the car came on boost and fried the tyres (when it did it was impressive). Completely useless as a car though. Car was supposed to have 1000hp, but I reckon off the line our Honda jazz would spank it...

I've met a lot of people like this and to be honest it's not until you get on the road or track that the true capabilities of the car shine through. The cars that have custom maps often out perform those just going for huge gains. SC, Revo and APR can adjust their maps to suit requirements, although after all they are just a business, hence why they show such strong gains to attract potential buyers.

 

I'm hoping the dyne queen comment is reserved for these same people and not at myself 

I've often found on forums that remaps/rolling road numbers often spark significant debate, nearly as bad as debating politics or religion 

 

Please be assured that I'm no 18 year old out for massive gains, I've been driving some powerful cars for over 25 years now and just want to share my thoughts on where the car is performing now and what it could possible do after a stage 1 remap.

 

I stand by my comments that the OC3 VRS TSI with over 300bhp and over 340flbt would make for a pretty quick and very useable car day to day. If this can be achieved for around £400 then I will be more than happy.

Agreed, raw figures on these type of things often makes the subject wander from what its really about.

At the end of the day, if you can get a bit of an enhancement that makes your car more enjoyable, for you, at a decent price, then that is the way to go. All the other bits can act as a guide to help you work out if its what you want.

Still looks like a pretty good option and I am keen on hearing how it feels out there on the road.

That's very good value bang-for buck. Will make the Octy pretty rapid. As others have said tho I'd take those actual figures with a very large pinch of salt. What hardware mods will you be running to go to stage 2? I presume just a downpipe/sports-cat is required?

Normalising Superchips dyno graph's to VW 220PS/350Nm baseline we get the following output's

 

Stage #1

256PS

416Nm (307ft/lb)

 

Stage #2

272PS

436Nm (322ft/lb)

Normalising Superchips dyno graph's to VW 220PS/350Nm baseline we get the following output's

 

Stage #1

256PS

416Nm (307ft/lb)

 

Stage #2

272PS

436Nm (322ft/lb)

You'd have to do the same with APR then as their base line is higher than stock at 220. They reckon their cars were pulling 235min,..

 

Bottom line is, and sorry to harp on, however my car is putting out more than 220bhp, more like 250, so add in the additional 52ps, I might just get over the 300bhp mark.

I wonder how much the Focus ST puts out if VRS's are pushing 250bhp (Superchips claim 266bhp for the VRS) at stock? Every comparison between these cars indicates that the Focus pulls noticeably harder. Even the Golf PP (manual vs manual) is slower than the Ford.

Perhaps I have a slow VRS because mine certainly feels slower in-gear that my old stock 217PS Impreza, and far slower than my 278PS STI was when stock. My own guestimate is 220-230bhp with shed loads of torque in the middle, but I have no way of proving it because roiling road dynos are not accurate. RR's are okay to show percentage gains and test stability under worst possible situations but that's about it. The only way to accurately test engine power is by removing it from the car and placing it on a bench. My guess is that only VAG have done this, so they may be able to give a reasonably precise estimate.

I think that the seamless gear changes of the DSG box and torrents of mid-range torque go a long way to making the car feel more powerful than it really is.

At the end of the day any remap offering 20-25% gains will feel VERY noticeablle, whether the starting point is 220 or 266PS. The problem is that mappers like to quote bhp and marketing people know bigger numbers sell more.

Edited 10 November, 201411 yr by Orville

I wonder how much the Focus ST puts out if VRS's are pushing 250bhp (Superchips claim 266bhp for the VRS) at stock? Every comparison between these cars indicates that the Focus pulls noticeably harder. Even the Golf PP (manual vs manual) is slower than the Ford.

Perhaps I have a slow VRS because mine certainly feels slower in-gear that my old stock 217PS Impreza, and far slower than my 278PS STI was when stock. My own guestimate is 220-230bhp with shed loads of torque in the middle, but I have no way of proving it because roiling road dynos are not accurate. RR's are okay to show percentage gains and test stability under worst possible situations but that's about it. The only way to accurately test engine power is by removing it from the car and placing it on a bench. My guess is that only VAG have done this, so they may be able to give a reasonably precise estimate.

I think that the seamless gear changes of the DSG box and torrents of mid-range torque go a long way to making the car feel more powerful than it really is.

At the end of the day any remap offering 20-25% gains will feel VERY noticeablle, whether the starting point is 220 or 266PS. The problem is that mappers like to quote bhp and marketing people know bigger numbers sell more.

VRS doesn't seem to struggle in any tests I've read vs the Focus ST and holds it own against some pretty strong competition all with 250bhp+ so not sure what to make of it really.

 

Superchips also haven't quote the VRS stock at 266, they've quoted 266 for the GTI with same engine so I'll be interested to see how my car fairs on the day.

 

Like with BMW, VW Group etc etc, it has to be said that sometimes car makers quoted BHP is more about emissions grading than anything else so who's to say that when the cars are tested for emissions (which is usually on a sample basis) that the cars presented are all 216bhp and yet when the buyers cars leave the factory they are slightly more, who knows??

 

All I can say is having driven many powerful cars, my VRS doesn't feel slow in any shape or form. Trust me, I'm 44 and have been driving for a long tome so know what really fast feels like (try 1,000bhp+ GTR, not mine by the way) and the Skoda is defo not that, however it is faster than quoted figures by a healthy margin.

 

Most important thing is not having to pay nearly £800 for a remap, I don't mind paying £350-400, however ultimately it has to feel right to me when back on the road and that's key.

Contacted superchips today re the remap. As yet unavailable for the vrs until they get their hands on a car to check the maps against that of the mk7 gti. He told me there is a vrs In for this reason 18th November.

I would throughly recommend apr carbon intake with a remap. Great bit of kit which also helps with the sound

Agreed, £350-£400 is a very tempting price, especially if they can make bluefin DIY modules work with the TSI engine.

Contacted superchips today re the remap. As yet unavailable for the vrs until they get their hands on a car to check the maps against that of the mk7 gti. He told me there is a vrs In for this reason 18th November.

I would throughly recommend apr carbon intake with a remap. Great bit of kit which also helps with the sound

Yep, that's my car they'll be playing with, fingers crossed she's only drank 99 ron fuel so hoping for good results.

 

Will keep you all posted.

Digging up and old thread because Superchips now offers Bluefin (DIY flashing) for Octavia III's, Mk7 GTI's and R's. It would be interesting to hear from any brave souls who have taken the plunge.

 

Price is £416 and quoted figures are 310bhp & 461Nm (340lb/ft). Far cheaper than APR/REVO and you can flash it and then switch back to stock whenever you like.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/VAG2.0TSI220PSStage1.pdf

Edited 8 February, 201610 yr by Orville

Digging up and old thread because Superchips now offers Bluefin (DIY flashing) for Octavia III's, Mk7 GTI's and R's. It would be interesting to hear from any brave souls who have taken the plunge.

Price is £416 and quoted figures are 310bhp & 461Nm (340lb/ft). Far cheaper than APR/REVO and you can flash it and then switch back to stock whenever you like.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/VAG2.0TSI220PSStage1.pdf

It's interesting that they have the original map at 266bhp. That's quite high for a stock car.

Would be good to see to see some real world dyno's and experiences but I do like the idea of a switchable map....

Edited 8 February, 201610 yr by pkoconnor

(re petrol vRS octy III) however it seems that if your car was built after after mar 15 the ECU may have different protection on it and there isn't a bluefin/map for it yet :(

I was idly comparing claims/maps from Revo, Shark and APR recently and one iirc Revo, have a switchable map.  If I understood the description correctly all the maps you select are blown in(eg stock, 95 RON, 98 RON clutch protecting) and the driver can plug in a little device to select which map to use. 

REVO depending on engine spec, then yes there are different settings. It does say for non us spec cars you can have 2 different "ron" settings.

But, after March 2015 it might not work as the ecu has been changed/upgraded.

Taken from REVO's website.

Yes it looks like it varies a lot depending on engine ECU, and tune stage.  I found this though

 

 

US AND ROW SPS SWITCHING OPTIONS / PERFORMANCE MODES

On Non-US Spec. vehicles Revo software is switchable between ‘Stock’, two performance modes and an anti-theft mode using a Revo SPS.

• Setting #1 on your SPS sets your vehicle to stock
• Setting #2 on your SPS sets your vehicle to Revo Performance mode A (Tuned for lower octane pump fuel/poor operating conditions)
• Setting #3 on your SPS sets your vehicle to Revo Performance mode B (Tuned for high octane pump fuel/good operating conditions)
• Setting #4 on your SPS sets your vehicle to Anti-Theft mode

There are options for which performance modes are flashed to your vehicle:

1. 95ron, 97ron and Anti-Theft
2. 95ron, 98ron and Anti-Theft
3. 95ron low boost*, 97ron Low Boost* and Anti-Theft
4. 95ron low boost*, 98ron Low Boost* and Anti-Theft

*Low Boost mode is designed as an option for manual cars where you have clutch longevity worries

Your dealer will advise you which performance file is most suitable for your vehicle and the conditions it's run in.

I do wonder if it does actually select different maps (completely different control loop s/w) or whether it uses one map and just changes a parameter or two.   Either way, the ability to swap to a 95 RON map or a higher octane map could be handy for some.

I do wonder if it does actually select different maps (completely different control loop s/w) or whether it uses one map and just changes a parameter or two.   Either way, the ability to swap to a 95 RON map or a higher octane map could be handy for some.

 

The complete ECU is flashed and then when you're switching between different modes above, the tuning will be different to suit grade of fuel or clutch so yes it does select different maps.

Ah but with the sps (serial port switch) the driver isn't reflashing, I found that somewhere on the Revo site.... They have an explanation of the sps, all it does is switch between maps flashed in by Revo.   I would be surprised if the stock ECU has sufficient memory to store 4 maps.   I could believe 4 sets of parameters in a look up table though.   It's splitting hairs on the wording and makes no difference though so I'm not worried, I am just curious about how the process works.

Ah but with the sps (serial port switch) the driver isn't reflashing, I found that somewhere on the Revo site.... They have an explanation of the sps, all it does is switch between maps flashed in by Revo.   I would be surprised if the stock ECU has sufficient memory to store 4 maps.   I could believe 4 sets of parameters in a look up table though.   It's splitting hairs on the wording and makes no difference though so I'm not worried, I am just curious about how the process works.

 

Correct, it just switches, how much and what depends on the ECU type.  On the Mk3 not everything is switched, only tables/parameters that need to be changed by mode.  However, on the MK2 vRS it is everything table that is changed so "stock mode" is actually stock.