1.2TSI cam chain problem

[Minimoke]

Its only 3.5 hours book time. Mine was done in half a day. The chain kit costs £71 plus vat full retail. Only other cost is gasket sealant, oil, filter and some coolant.

So no its not such a big job and anything much more than the £371 I was charged would be a ripoff.

And dont lose sight of the fact that vw/skoda should really be doing these foc, I remember way back in 2004, the fabia brochure had the printed words "maintainance free camchain" for the recently introduced htp engine.

I don't know where you get 3.5 hours from. I had the official Skoda timesheet for this job attached to the invoice and its 5.9 hours. My main Skoda dealer charges £75 ph before VAT so this gives £442 before VAT and £531 with VAT.

 

The reason I got a copy of the official timesheet attached to the invoice was that Skoda UK paid the dealer for the labour for the job, and I hardly think Skoda would let the dealer charge more time than they allow. I only paid a small fraction of the total invoice price as Skoda made a goodwill contribution despite being out of warranty by 2 years.

 

I was told by the dealer at the time that the full price for doing this job at a main dealer would be £700 including VAT.

 

I repeat this is a non trivial job (if done properly). 

[Ootohere]

Good that you have that, i have no idea of the time, but James can hopefully confirm.

 

What i have seen is some rather odd invoices with greatly inflated Labour costs when it is a case of Goodwill Contributions and a payment from Customers 

compared to when it is just a job a Customer is paying for.

[xman]

Up north we evidently work twice as fast as you slackers down south. ;)

[hutchysrs50]

Haven't read every comment but just checking people arnt getting engines mixed up, everyone talking about the 1.2 TSI and not 1.2 HTP xman quoted a few comments up?

[istannbullu34]

Haven't read every comment but just checking people arnt getting engines mixed up, everyone talking about the 1.2 TSI and not 1.2 HTP xman quoted a few comments up?

 

I believe that xman, minimoke and I, we are sure that it is about 1.2 TSI :)

[shlobber]

xman,do you know if it's a good idea to use the w712/94 oil filter on a vrs? thanks.

[Ootohere]

What kind of vRS a Mk1 Fabia or Mk2?

 

For a Mk2 1.4TSI i highly Recommend a Mahle OC295.

( But what you want to ensure is the correct Oil Filter and you might want to use a OEM VW/Audi Silver one.)

http://livingstonautoparts.co.uk

[istannbullu34]

I don't know where you get 3.5 hours from. I had the official Skoda timesheet for this job attached to the invoice and its 5.9 hours. My main Skoda dealer charges £75 ph before VAT so this gives £442 before VAT and £531 with VAT.

 

The reason I got a copy of the official timesheet attached to the invoice was that Skoda UK paid the dealer for the labour for the job, and I hardly think Skoda would let the dealer charge more time than they allow. I only paid a small fraction of the total invoice price as Skoda made a goodwill contribution despite being out of warranty by 2 years.

 

I was told by the dealer at the time that the full price for doing this job at a main dealer would be £700 including VAT.

 

I repeat this is a non trivial job (if done properly). 

 

 

I have left the card and asked today this question to the dealer - after this conversation. I was told it is around 4 hours of work, I have double checked the price and 355 GBP is for whole kit including their work and VAT. There will be additionally oil and oil filter change.

 

They will keep the car whole night today and check tomorrow morning, and then call me and after all they will call Skoda for their participation.

 

Let`s see what will come up!

[xman]

xman,do you know if it's a good idea to use the w712/94 oil filter on a vrs? thanks.

The short answer is best get a part no. from your dealer and check it using cross reference on Mann hummel or Mahle online catalogs.

Mann Hummel only list the 1.4 RS CAVE engine (w712/93) but you may have a CTHE engine.

Long (winded) answer:

My dealer still uses a VAG filter 03C115561J which is a w712/93 both on our 2011 1.2tsi Octavia and our 2013 1.2tsi Fabia when it should be a w712/94 03C115561H according to Mann in both cases. The filter changed for 1.2tsi in 2010 but not for 1.4tsi which remains a w712/93. The filters only differ in the sealing ring arrangement. I use the 94 variant and it appears to be the correct variant.

So another problem area with my dealer!!!!

Mann Hummel make and supply VAG with oe oil filters for these cars, the significance of the silver colour is the use of synthetic filter material which guarantee long life and other benefits.

https://www.mann-hummel.com/pt/corp/news/news/newsdetail/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=701&cHash=d45ad9cc92456d62a38daef82c09d81e

Edited 18 January, 2017 by xman

[xman]

I don't know where you get 3.5 hours from. I had the official Skoda timesheet for this job attached to the invoice and its 5.9 hours. My main Skoda dealer charges £75 ph before VAT so this gives £442 before VAT and £531 with VAT.

I repeat this is a non trivial job (if done properly).

3.5 hours is what the service manager told me iirc. I dropped the car (late 2011 octavia) off at 8:45am by 3:30pm it was ready, they also did an MOT (fail) and changed the osf wheel bearing and retested it. I examined the old parts, chain, guides, tensioner and sprockets (and wheel bearing). There is clear evidence that the sump and timing covers have been off (liquid gasket) and of course new oil/filter/coolant.

I think my dealer charges £70 inc vat per hour.

The car has been fine since, silent start ups, bliss!

Edited 18 January, 2017 by xman

[istannbullu34]

by the way, while they are taking out everything I suppose it will be good to change some other things such as water pump  - any other thing that you would suggest?

[xman]

Dont get carried away, the water pump on a 1.2tsi is an expensive dual circuit thing driven by the aux belt, nothing to do with the chain. Unless you have a problem with your cooling system, why bother?

[istannbullu34]

 okay, thanks xman, did not know that, thought it might have been like a standard one - did not wanna bother with high labour costs in the future just for that - as they always suggest to change the pump along with the cam belt 

[shlobber]

my engine is a cave,that was replaced in 2013 for a new engine by skoda.i do have a feeling that this oil filter business is a bit of an issue,sometimes my engine is very quiet when starting from cold,other times it rattles a bit for a couple of seconds,then is absolutely fine,maybe the non return valve not always doing it's job? anyway,i looked on the mann catalogue,which lists  the vw twincharge engines as requiring the w712/94 filter,and the skoda and seat   twincharge needing the w712/93,so,a bit confusing really.

[istannbullu34]

Update from me

Got a call from the dealer and feeling like trying to put me in awkward position - i suppose they de trying to ignore paying for the whole change

They said that they did not hear any sound which is impossible when you cold start despite the fact that i showd them this video below that the car is screaming for first seconds and aftsr this video yesterday they told " yeah this sounds like death rattle"

Without any exception this sound is always there when you start the car after 3-4 hours.

https://youtu.be/1rgKyJcRsu0

I angrily asked them to check how stretched the chain is- i am hundred percent sure that i will get similar answer like xman

Lost hope with Skoda as well - will not go to any authorized dealer anymore for Octavia and will be big fight with them tomorrow i will tell them they are lying through their ...

Yoy can guess how angry i am..

 

Skoda can also expect a very kind email from me like I did for Renault before :)

Will change the whole thing in independent Vag garage that i found

Edited 19 January, 2017 by istannbullu34

[Ootohere]

Shlobber, see the pinned thread at top of the page'Lucifers Ultimate Guide link'  and there are dozens of Twincharger threads without having to talk filters in a 1.2 TSI thread.

Reason i recommend the Mahle Filter is exactly the Oil straight up to the filter and around the head as soon as you turn the key and fire the engine up.

There has been lots of trials and errors and failures of engines over the years and people get to know what works.

If getting a MANN filter that is fine but get the correct one and if a Motor Factor can not be sure which is correct there is something far wrong with their Computer System and Staff Training.

(The OEM filter can be an issue, the Original & the Updated Silver crap actually is an issue, so i wait to get flamed.) 

Edited 19 January, 2017 by Offski

[istannbullu34]

and final point - dealer checked and the chain is stretched in limits as they say - they said that they can change tensioner as it might be causing the issue which put a smile on my face :) Told them not to touch the car anymore, I will pick it tomorrow and wont see any dealer/service with VW group logo.

[xman]

So they wont change it all for £355?

Edited 19 January, 2017 by xman

[istannbullu34]

they will do it for the same price,, however, I wont do it there as they are lying to me,  putting me in a position that I am stupid?

 

I can afford it but I will do it with independent garage, found a guy already he said that he fitted this kit many times.

 

If they do not accept the issue, it means they wont accept if sth happens to the engine connected with this issue as well, so I do not wanna pay the dealer while they do not have any `benefit` on changing it with them.

[xman]

In the UK you get 2 year parts/labour unlimited mileage warranty if its done at a Skoda dealer with skoda parts. Not sure what an independent will give you warranty wise. Can you try another Skoda dealer?

Are you in Poland? If so whereabouts?

When you get it done, insist on seeing the old parts, chain, 2 x guide rails, hydraulic tensioner and sprockets.

Edited 19 January, 2017 by xman

[istannbullu34]

that is correct but they can always say it happened because of user mistake,

 

For long years, for me, more than performance, the trust is important. I can always accept my mistake but if there is issue from the producer side, I expect to be treated fair. I drove a lot of cars until now, and personally owned 4 brands Fiat, Renault,  Honda, and now Skoda. Apart from Honda, I had terrible experience with the dealers.

 

I am so angry on them right now, - I really do not mind paying that amount - if they told me that it is the famous issue and they cannot pay for it, I would pay the money and change it but if you are lying into my eyes, I will not work with you, even if they say they will do it free now, I will not go that way.

 

I am in Cracow, we have 4 main dealers here, 1 has terrible comments, this one had good opinions but lost my confidence, the third one is on renovation and closed for some time, and the last one had rejected to fit Kit B, they offer Kit A and asking for 500 GBP :)

 

I will send some emails for Skoda Poland and headquarters as well (if i will be able to find any emails) and see what will come up.

Edited 19 January, 2017 by istannbullu34

[xman]

My experience in Poland, (Zamosc) is that the average pole doesn't know how to haggle or even ask for a discount and never questions a dealers offer/decision. The salesmen there are arrogant, rude and do tricks that would see them sacked here in the uk. So my advice is to contact Skoda Polska and talk with them.

Powodzenia!!

Edited 19 January, 2017 by xman

[istannbullu34]

That is correct - after sale you are totally alone

I am coming from Istanbul so my experience from there taught me -that you have to push

I had one case while servicing with another brand -  they made something with brake pads which i could not recognize until the brakes stopped working :) i was able to stop driving into bushes without killing anybody. Then i checked with a local garage they told me that left front pad was left loose - which dealer did not accept.


I have written already to Skoda Poland, VW Germany and found one board member :)

Edited 19 January, 2017 by istannbullu34

[shlobber]

ah,yes,apologies,still learning forum etiquette,thanks for the advice,really appreciated.

[Rustica]

Hi  Just checking....if I have this problem on my 2010 Fabis MK2 I should get kit 03F 198 158 B (with sprockets,guides,chain and tensioner etc) and lower timing cover 03F 109 210 D (mine is 03F 109 210 )plus crankshaft oil seal 038103085C  ?  Cheers

Edited 2 February, 2017 by Rustica