1.2TSI cam chain problem

[istannbullu34]

On 2/2/2017 at 12:03, Rustica said:

Hi  Just checking....if I have this problem on my 2010 Fabis MK2 I should get kit 03F 198 158 B (with sprockets,guides,chain and tensioner etc) and lower timing cover 03F 109 210 D (mine is 03F 109 210 )plus crankshaft oil seal 038103085C  ?  Cheers

All with 1.2 might be affected - i suppise it ll be better for you to check.

 

My last update:

 

I wrote to Skoda and VW Poland, Germany with very tough language and they offered the change ith their 100 percent contrubution on parts and 70 on labour without  any question or explanaton from them - which costs me around 80 gbp, probably will do it next week

[xman]

Well done!

 

This proves what I have recently learnt. If the dealer does not cooperate, go straight to Skoda and put your case to them direct.

 

In my case, I overpaid for failures that clearly should have been Skoda's responsibility.

 

I get the impression many dealers are lazy, greedy, lack up to date knowledge or are prone to fibbing.

[Rustica]

On 2/2/2017 at 12:03, Rustica said:

Hi  Just checking....if I have this problem on my 2010 Fabis MK2 I should get kit 03F 198 158 B (with sprockets,guides,chain and tensioner etc) and lower timing cover 03F 109 210 D (mine is 03F 109 210 )plus crankshaft oil seal 038103085C  ?  Cheers

 

   Just thought I'd correct this as I noticed I'd omitted a suffix on the chain cover and the cover comes with a seal,from what I can see.I am checking because Skoda aren't that brilliant over here and I intend to buy the necessary bits and get the local garage to fit them:

 

..if I have this problem on my 2010 Fabis MK2 I should get kit 03F 198 158 B (with sprockets,guides,chain and tensioner etc) and lower timing cover 03F 109 210 D (mine is 03F 109 210B )  ?  Cheers

[Rustica]

Here's an interesting link,it shows the installation of a "Kit B"(03F198158B) on a Polo 6R 1.2 TSI :

Easy?!

 Even shows,in detail(to get all the pics you need to register),how to remove the lower sprocket,to press the new one on and how to use the VCDS software.

 

  He (Adriani) also mentions,in a later post in the thread,that you could fit Kit A (03f198158A) and it would last 100/130,000 kms.Not sure how he knows this especially as he said one of these kits only lasted 18000 km at the beginning of the thread, but will ask.I'm thinking of installing one of these kits,A or the B. But for sure the Kit B fixes thinks for good.

                                                                    Cheers.

Edited 5 February, 2017 by Rustica

[istannbullu34]

I have had some new issues that I posted in Octavia II part, turbo valve failure and poor rear breaks. Lost confidence totally with the car, put it on sale. I suppose I will try to go back for Toyota or Honda

 

xman and offski, thanks a lot for your support.

Edited 10 February, 2017 by istannbullu34

[Rustica]

On 9/19/2016 at 23:32, Minimoke said:

I think that you are right that the link is a little out of date. The latest repair kit has a different number. The chain design is on its third revision. I posted a picture of all types in another thread on this forum. Search on my user name.

Regarding the chain jumping the sprockets. I dont think this is an issue with the latest revision. At one stage the TPI mandated fitment of a revised cam chain cover to counter this but that is no longer the case.

If you have a rattle that only lasts 1-2 seconds after start up it is almost certainly from the cam chain. Injector rattles are a constant feature on these engines and the noise from them is always present.

 

    Hi Minimoke,

                                      So does that mean that when I fit the latest kit(03F 198 158B) that I don't have to fit an updated cam chain cover(03F 109 210D),mine's suffix B.I'm trying to cut down on costs for this job but I don't want to take any risks.Cheers

Edited 14 February, 2017 by Rustica

[Kismet77]

So, having spent a few hours reading through this post I could do with a little bit of help/guidance/ ideas. I've got a 61 plate 1.2Tsi which has doen 48k, it started to do this 'thing' where when you first start it, idle is about 1k, after a few minutes run it then drops to around 750/800, and this is where the 'rattle' comes in. It doesn't do it all the time, as soon as the revs are picked up it stops, and its not time dependant. It can be driven 10 miles and it will stop, or 20 miles and will carry on! While it was under its dealer warranty i took it in for them to investigate, left them with instructions on the conditions during which it happened. Rather unsurprisingly they couldn't get it to do it. When it went in for its MOT, once again asked them to investigate the rattle. This time the service manager came back and said that it could be a stretched timing chain, cue my surpirse and alarm, he said that he'd come across one with only 500 miles on it that was strecthed on inspection. I asked if it would be covered under warranty to which he suggested that it might be, until he found out that it was still in warranty (actually the last day of it), when he said if not they might come to some agreement over cost as i was a valued customer i.e I'd had it serviced there.

Back to now, it seems like its getting worse, and it doesn't sound like quite the same symptoms as the timing chain presents, would welcome any ideas.

 

Its a CBZ.

Edited 12 April, 2017 by Kismet77
Added info

[istannbullu34]

20 hours ago, Kismet77 said:

So, having spent a few hours reading through this post I could do with a little bit of help/guidance/ ideas. I've got a 61 plate 1.2Tsi which has doen 48k, it started to do this 'thing' where when you first start it, idle is about 1k, after a few minutes run it then drops to around 750/800, and this is where the 'rattle' comes in. It doesn't do it all the time, as soon as the revs are picked up it stops, and its not time dependant. It can be driven 10 miles and it will stop, or 20 miles and will carry on! While it was under its dealer warranty i took it in for them to investigate, left them with instructions on the conditions during which it happened. Rather unsurprisingly they couldn't get it to do it. When it went in for its MOT, once again asked them to investigate the rattle. This time the service manager came back and said that it could be a stretched timing chain, cue my surpirse and alarm, he said that he'd come across one with only 500 miles on it that was strecthed on inspection. I asked if it would be covered under warranty to which he suggested that it might be, until he found out that it was still in warranty (actually the last day of it), when he said if not they might come to some agreement over cost as i was a valued customer i.e I'd had it serviced there.

Back to now, it seems like its getting worse, and it doesn't sound like quite the same symptoms as the timing chain presents, would welcome any ideas.

 

Its a CBZ.

 

I have got a CBZB Octavia as well which I am trying to sell, however, I was able to hear the rattle only for 1 second when I turned the key and the car started. I believe the 1k idle part is not an issue, it works like that.

 

If you hear this rattling sound, I would suggest not to lose time, it might not be the issue with the chain however, if it is, it might leave you in the future with a very unpleasant bill.

You can email to Skoda UK and also keep pushing Volkswagen customer service as well, give them this TPI numbers and ask them to pay the bill.

 

I have pushed Skoda, VW, while Skoda did not help, VW acceped  to pay 100 percent on the parts and 70 percent for the labor. I also have to add that I used very strong language blaming them with `cheating`

 

After, they have changed the chain and all other related parts in the kit, I do not hear any rattling sound any more.

[BruceWee]

I'm almost certain I've got the same problem as everyone else.  In my case the check engine light, the traction control light, and the tyre presure light all came on at the same time and the engine felt a bit off on partial throttle. I took it to the main dealer and they told me the timing chain would have to be replaced.

 

It's a 2010 fabia with engine number CBZ 235021 and an M on the sticker.  I bought the car in December 2012 and it now has 45,000km on the clock.  I bought it from the main dealer and have had all the services done there.

 

I live in Norway and we have quite strong consumer laws when it comes to buying used cars from dealers.  Basically they are responsible for any faults that could reasonably be predicted for five years after the car is purchased.  I asked them about getting the repair covered under this but they said that timing chains just fail sometimes and aren't covered.

 

I'm now trying to gather information so that I can make a complaint to the consumer rights people.  Given that TPI 202651-5 came out in October 2012 and I bought the car in December 2012 I feel that I should have been warned about the potential failure before I bought the car.  I'm planning to use the TPI to support my case but is there anything else I'm missing.

 

As I said, the car has had all it's services done at the main dealer where I bought it from including a big service only two weeks before the warning lights came on.  Should I have been made aware of the problem at any of the previous services and were they under any obligation to fix the problem before it got worse?

 

I know this has been discussed a lot already but I'm just trying to organise my own thoughts and make sure I'm not missing anything before I make my case.

 

Thanks!

[istannbullu34]

4 hours ago, BruceWee said:

I'm almost certain I've got the same problem as everyone else.  In my case the check engine light, the traction control light, and the tyre presure light all came on at the same time and the engine felt a bit off on partial throttle. I took it to the main dealer and they told me the timing chain would have to be replaced.

 

It's a 2010 fabia with engine number CBZ 235021 and an M on the sticker.  I bought the car in December 2012 and it now has 45,000km on the clock.  I bought it from the main dealer and have had all the services done there.

 

I live in Norway and we have quite strong consumer laws when it comes to buying used cars from dealers.  Basically they are responsible for any faults that could reasonably be predicted for five years after the car is purchased.  I asked them about getting the repair covered under this but they said that timing chains just fail sometimes and aren't covered.

 

I'm now trying to gather information so that I can make a complaint to the consumer rights people.  Given that TPI 202651-5 came out in October 2012 and I bought the car in December 2012 I feel that I should have been warned about the potential failure before I bought the car.  I'm planning to use the TPI to support my case but is there anything else I'm missing.

 

As I said, the car has had all it's services done at the main dealer where I bought it from including a big service only two weeks before the warning lights came on.  Should I have been made aware of the problem at any of the previous services and were they under any obligation to fix the problem before it got worse?

 

I know this has been discussed a lot already but I'm just trying to organise my own thoughts and make sure I'm not missing anything before I make my case.

 

Thanks!

 

Please drop me a private message, I can send you the details what I wrote to VW group, it might help.

[mouk]

What is the best practical way to get this fixed?

 

My car is 7 years old so out of warranty

 

I took it to a Main dealer who said it was a timing chain issue but the warranty guy was not there.

 

So do I go back to the main dealer or am I better off asking Skoda direct (via email?) and then taking that to the dealer.

 

I am guessing the dealer will do it no probs as long as Skoda pays towards it?

[istannbullu34]

dealers are not good help, you can write directly to UK Customer Service of Skoda and VW and tell them about the issue and the TPI numbers. Do not forget to mention that this is a common problem and VW group`s mistake. Even if you are out of warranty, they should be paying for it or at least contribute for most of the repair. Mine went into traffic in Feb 2012, and the kit was fitted 2 months ago, 1 year after warranty ended

 

if Skoda or VW accept to pay, they will inform you and also the dealer so that the dealer will not have any problem as they are gonna be paid by them.

[mouk]

Well I spoke to Skoda UK on their live chat and they said it is up to the dealer if the dealer offers goodwill - this suggests that it is the dealer that will stomach the loss - which goes against what most are saying on here that Skoda authorise and pay it.

 

I will speak to dealer.

[istannbullu34]

1 hour ago, mouk said:

Well I spoke to Skoda UK on their live chat and they said it is up to the dealer if the dealer offers goodwill - this suggests that it is the dealer that will stomach the loss - which goes against what most are saying on here that Skoda authorise and pay it.

 

I will speak to dealer.

 

I would email them with writing the details rather than using chat if I were you , also I would send the same email to Volkswagen as well.

[David1980]

Think I have the same thing, car Died suddenly and managed to get it to side of the road, 1.2 fabia 62 plate with 49k on the clock.

Dealer has offered 25 percent taking the repair to 3k.

said the timing chain had slipped four cogs and caused damage to the engine.

Car valued at 3.5k

 

Owned from new and FSH from Dealer

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated 

Edited 10 May, 2017 by David1980

[xman]

Do not accept the dealer offer and insist on speaking directly to Skoda UK. Point out that your car is low mileage, under 5 years old and importantly has full dealer service history. The camchain problem is well known to Skoda and VAG. Under UK law it is reasonable to expect that a camchain lasts far more than 49k and 5 years and your dealer has not highlighted any problems during its full service history. So this is down to a manufacturing fault, Skoda knows this because plenty of TPI* (technical bulletins) from VAG/Skoda have been issued to dealers about this problem. Any UK court would find in your favour (and small claims court is the next step).

 

Ask Skoda for a replacement engine FOC, or state that you will pay only say five percent of the total cost, but insist you will require at least 2 years unlimited mileage warranty on the repair.

 

You should also insist on a free courtesy car and some free servicing for goodwill. You have been a loyal customer.

 

*TPI numbers are available on this and other forums if you search to support a court claim.

[David1980]

Thank you,

 

I was told to wait for my case to be passed to a customer service rep which could take 48 hours, any info I could take to the table is greatly appreciated, will keep this updated 

[xman]

A nice woman (possibly Maxine) will call you and possibily initially make the same  offer as the dealer or a slighty improved one. Immediately decline and point out that UK law says that all new manufactured goods should be of a reasonable quality and last an appropriate time. It is not reasonable for a regularly dealer serviced car to suddenly go bang at such a low mileage/age and any court would surely agree.

 

The camchain and tensioner are not service or wear and tear items (as defined in Skoda's warranty own terms and conditions). Mention that you have been made aware that Skoda technical bulletins have been issued that support that the camchain and tensioner on this model of engine have been subject to design and quality issues and that other Skoda and VAG owners (vw etc) have had free repairs done even well out of warranty.

 

Remind them again and again that the car has a full service history.

 

Then make your demand perfectly clear, ask for a full repair free of charge, a courtesy car, warranty on the repair and some goodwill thrown in, e.g 2 years servicing to cover the inconvenience. This is based on your absolute minimum claim to to a small claims court, should they decline you.

 

Remember to be polite and courteous at all times (Maxine is quite reasonable and easy to talk to). They will probably say they need to check and get back to you in 48 hours. In reality it may take a bit longer but they will come back with a significantly improved offer and its quite likely your full demands are met.

 

Make sure you talk directly to Skoda UK and NOT the dealer.

 

Edited 10 May, 2017 by xman

[David1980]

Have finally received a call from Skoda uk,

the rep said "all goodwill and repair is done via the retailer and she would have to approach them for an increase" 

she said their offer would be final and that after that it would have to go to the motor ombudsman.

I shall await their call 

[Ootohere]

Ask Skoda UK Customer Services in writing to have the Communications Manager or Handler reply in writing and to confirm if the Dealership 

pays for the Goodwill work or Skoda UK seeing as Skoda UK know the Fundamental Design & Manufacturing and Quality Fault lies with Skoda / VW.

[David1980]

Just had a reply from the dealer, they had lengthy discussions with Skoda and have reduced the cost of the repair to £2930. They believed that to be their final offer.

[Ootohere]

That is a just taking the mickey.

You maybe want to talk with a solicitor and see about getting a 'Independent Expert Motor Engineers report' done on your engine and then see how Skoda UK 

want to proceed if you are prepared to go to court with that.

[DensYeti]

I agree.....I had same problem with wrecked engine, low milage, out of warranty.  New engine fitted at no expense to me.

That was after going through the ridiculous process of various parties making silly offers and "goodwill" offers that fell short of the mark.

With this and the rust debacles I am now reconsidering whether it is worth staying with Skoda....they are just shooting themselves in the foot by not accepting responsibility for design faults and faulty- at- manufacture paint jobs.

I feel sorry for those with the rust problems......it is rusting from the inside and will come back after a respray....A properly prepared new door skin or new door is the only cure.

[David1980]

The case is awaiting an adjudicator from the Motoring Ombudsman, they are currently hugely backdated but believe mine will be looked at during the week, someone there took a brief look at my case and said that as it's out of warranty I would be relying on the sales of goods act, and I would have to proof it to be a manufacturer fault.

Was hoping they'd be the voice of reason, if anyone has any further info I could use come the Adjudicators call, it would be greatly appreciated 

[Warrior193]

1 hour ago, David1980 said:

The case is awaiting an adjudicator from the Motoring Ombudsman, they are currently hugely backdated but believe mine will be looked at during the week, someone there took a brief look at my case and said that as it's out of warranty I would be relying on the sales of goods act, and I would have to proof it to be a manufacturer fault.

Was hoping they'd be the voice of reason, if anyone has any further info I could use come the Adjudicators call, it would be greatly appreciated 

 

Hi David, it rather looks as if you will have to take your case to the County Court (AKA small claims court) The court filing fee should be quite small. Arm yourself with all the information you can get, especially any relevant TPI notifications regarding the cam chain problems. I suspect that SUK will have a change of heart when they get the court summons.