1.2TSI cam chain problem

[Ootohere]

Courts are sometimes the only answer to VW never admitting anything and even then they will not.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/450777-there's-more-trouble-for-vag-in-the-usa 

[David1980]

Hi everyone, 

last week the Ombudsman came back to me and seemed to be leaning towards me in terms of the claim.

Yesterday they made there final judgement and have found in favour of the dealer, they accept that my chain has failed and that the engine failed as a result, but that the car was sold in a reasonable condition and that I have not proven that the chain was faulty.

it really is like banging my head against a brick wall, neither Skoda uk or the dealer have ever acknowledged the fault  exists and this is very hard to prove to the Ombudsman, I have appealed  the decision and have 10 days to make a submission.

Any further assistance would be greatly appreciated, 

The dealer has also retracted the initial offer of help as it’s gone on so long, (this is all due to the Ombudsman)

 

Thanks for your help everyone! 

[Ootohere]

Not much use to you, but in Australia a class action was won by owners of 1.8 & 2.0 TSI with the Timing Chain Issues.

Look in the Octavia Mk2 Section on the 1.8 & 2.0 TSI Euro 5 engine failures.

Maybe the last months pages as there have been owners of these cars in the UK getting someplace on getting it accepted that there were Fundamental Design, Manufacturing & Material failings.

[Filipelol]

By the way, I've had the "B" kit fitted and the oil filter is just hand tight and it still rattles occasionally at start-up, any ideas?

[xman]

12 hours ago, Filipelol said:

By the way, I've had the "B" kit fitted and the oil filter is just hand tight and it still rattles occasionally at start-up, any ideas?

The correct way to tighten filter is to oil the inner rubber seal (both sides is best) and outer seal, spin the filter on by hand until you feel it hits an end stop or becomes stiff to turn by hand. Then torque to only 20-22Nm which is not a lot.

 

There will inevitably be times when a short rattle is heard, due to the hydraulic tensioner moving back a bit (not sure if it has a ratchet mech internally, which is obviously stepped so always some play). Engine run back, leaving in gear etc can force the tensioner back that bit. Don't leave in gear if it could turn engine backwards, and when starting, always turn over long enough to start. A quick touch on the key that doesn't start it first time can make the engine run back if it stops on the compression stroke, if you know what I mean.

 

Don't worry too much.

Edited 31 October, 2018 by xman

[Filipelol]

1 hour ago, xman said:

The correct way to tighten filter is to oil the inner rubber seal (both sides is best) and outer seal, spin the filter on by hand until you feel it hits an end stop or becomes stiff to turn by hand. Then torque to only 20-22Nm which is not a lot.

 

There will inevitably be times when a short rattle is heard, due to the hydraulic tensioner moving back a bit (not sure if it has a ratchet mech internally, which is obviously stepped so always some play). Engine run back, leaving in gear etc can force the tensioner back that bit. Don't leave in gear if it could turn engine backwards, and when starting, always turn over long enough to start. A quick touch on the key that doesn't start it first time can make the engine run back if it stops on the compression stroke, if you know what I mean.

 

Don't worry too much.

I oiled it but sometimes the rattle isn't as suttle and lasts a second so it's sounds worrisome, but yes I shouldn't worry as much. 

[AMD87]

Just seen this on Facebook made me think of this thread 

 

 

[AMD87]

Just seen this on Facebook made me think of this thread 

 

 

[cool_barney]

I thought I would reply to this thread as my wife owns an a3 with a 1.2 tfsi which is the same engine as one ones being discussed. The car has done 46000 miles, full audi service history until about 18 months ago where it went indy, last serviced about 10 months ago.

I have noticed a rattle which was there since we bought it a few years ago but over the last few weeks has got loud to the point of being very noticable, it only sounds like this on cold start, once warmed up the noise is gone.

 

I did a couple of short videos of the noise on cold start:

 

 

https://youtu.be/YGOywNh-oB8

 

Any thoughts, does it sound like it should stop being driven? No warning lights on dash or anything.

 

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

When was your car first registered, so when was the engine built?

[cool_barney]

45 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Welcome.

When was your car first registered, so when was the engine built?

Thankyou.

 

Its a 2011 first registered in June 2011.

[Ootohere]

Likely you need the Chain and tensioner up-grade then.

When it was at the Audi Main Dealers was there never mention of the TPI and the issue with the Chains?

They knew more than 18 months ago.

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[cool_barney]

10 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Likely you need the Chain and tensioner up-grade then.

When it was at the Audi Main Dealers was there never mention of the TPI and the issue with the Chains?

They knew more than 18 months ago.

 

It has its last service at the dealers in Jan 2017 (it was still in extended warranty then which has now ran out) , would they have known about this issue then? I would guess they would fob me off if I went down now, I could take out another audi warranty on it and go down after a couple of months to get them to look into it...

Not sure which approach to take really

Edited 23 March, 2019 by cool_barney

[Ootohere]

Yes Audi knew.  They had the TPI, they had been doing warranty work and fitting the upgrade kit.

 

Edited 23 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[DensYeti]

I am a bit surprised that this topic is still going on for so long with people still being conned by unwilling dealers in view of the information previously available since around 2012. This site and the Yeti owners site give all the information to fight any unscrupulous dealers (for that is what they are in claiming to know nothing about the VW 1.2 Tsi timing chain debacle)  The unfit for purpose timing chain was recognized by VW and they fitted better chains/sprockets/tensioners in 2011, 2 years after that engine came out in 2009.  A TPI was issued to all dealers/franchises giving the details.  I think there is a copy of the TPI somewhere on site.

I suffered This problem about 3 years ago and a totally wrecked engine with pistons in sump. Car out of warranty but lowish mileage  The nearest Skoda main dealer claimed no knowledge of a problem and Skoda UK were no help either though they offered a part payment.  I persisted with main dealer who claimed no knowledge of the TPI.  When I produced a copy of it to them they were a bit shocked and retorted "where did you get that?"

End result - a new engine was fitted totally free of cost to me, though I was out of pocket from all the time and fuel used in the journeys back and forth (60ish miles round trip to main dealer) and the cost of getting the car trailered to them for their first look when they failed to change the chain, which then led to final wrecking out on the road. £4000+ of bills avoided.

Stick with it and look back through this subject and arm yourself with print outs of the evidence, especially a copy of the TPI and reference to the German magazine that highlighted the failure of the chains way back when it was happening (2011/12?). Also 'Honest John' (journalist of Telegraph fame) has dealt with this fault andVW dishonesty.  I feel there should have been an automatic SAFETY recall..... just imagine going down a busy motorway at 70mph when the engine blows up ..........  This sort of case must surly be what the motoring ombudsman in UK aught to sort out?

 

Den

[Ootohere]

If a safety issue , a safety critical issue which it is, it was in the UK the DfT and VOSA which is now the DVSA that should have dealt with it,

& European Commissioners and the German Authorities, 

But then VW is the tail that wags the dog.

[LuigiDC]

Sorry for my first post here  being that of negativity, but is the TSi chain issue reserved for vehicles of a certain vintage?

 

Reading through the thread, most vehicles seem to be of the 2011 year. I gather cars of a newer build, are still an issue/ticking time bomb?

 

It's really putting me off getting the other half a 1.2 tsi of any sorts, which is a shame as it seems a cracking wee engine.

[rum4mo]

26 minutes ago, LuigiDC said:

Sorry for my first post here  being that of negativity, but is the TSi chain issue reserved for vehicles of a certain vintage?

 

Reading through the thread, most vehicles seem to be of the 2011 year. I gather cars of a newer build, are still an issue/ticking time bomb?

 

It's really putting me off getting the other half a 1.2 tsi of any sorts, which is a shame as it seems a cracking wee engine.

 

Of course if you can move forward a bit to 2015 roughly, these engines were replaced with a belt driven 1.2TSI 16V, but that would mean buying a Fabia MK3 - though hopefully someone will confirm that later chain driven 1.2TSI 8V ones are safer, but these engine got dropped only after a short production life, so maybe not?

[LuigiDC]

Thanks.

 

I have a 2015 (15 plate) fabia mk3 to view. I'm also viewing a 2015 (65 plate) ibiza.

 

Would be a whole lot easier if some of the salesmen could conform if the car their selling has a belt or chain!

[Ootohere]

If a Euro 6 1.2 TSI it will have a belt.

[rum4mo]

Here is a plan for when viewing VW Group cars with 1.2TSI engines:- look under bonnet, if the turbo is nearest the front of the car then it is a chain driven camshaft, conversely, if the turbo is nearest the passenger cell then it is a belt driven camshaft.

[LuigiDC]

Perfect. Thanks very much.

 

I'm more into my Japanese cars, so it's a learning curve with the VAG engines.

 

The Ibiza I've found checks out as euro 6, so could be on to a winner with this one.

[rum4mo]

Go for it and enjoy!  Watch out for Uncle Arnies tricks though if it is him that is selling it.

[David1980]

So today after nearly 2 years with the Ombudsman they have found in favour of the dealer.

It was noted that I had evidenced the car being 4 years old, FSH from new with same dealer, however the crucial part of the Dekra independent experts review was that The chain had jumped not snapped, it does say the tensioner probably made it run slack which the Ombudsman has said would be an oil fault.

i feel absolutely dejected by it all.

it is the final decision, I need to weigh up whether to try small claims court.

 

thanks for your help everyone 

[rum4mo]

Well, unfortunately these "independent" people that work for any Ombudsman function are not really worth anything generally, for simple "cut and shut" cases where "you" could exert enough force to shame a supplier or their agent to "play the game" - but "you" would rather someone did it for you, they are probably okay, for tricky stuff like dealing with car makers and their agents, not much good.