Continuing my dig at BMW I suppose...

 

Meant to post this  while back.

 

First time I saw one of these it was so ugly I thought I'd imagined it or someone had stuck a BMW grill on a Toyota people carrier.

 

Then I saw it again and realised it was real.

 

Edited 26 February, 201511 yr by Aspman

In isolation, perhaps.

 

Put it next to the competition and it looks like a BMW version of what already exists today, Ford C-Max etc. etc.

 

I know which I'd rather have...

Well, it's better than the 2 series "Gran Coupe" I suppose. But unless you buy into the Bayerische Mist Wagon brand* I struggle to see what it offers that a C-Max, Vw Touran?, Nissan Cashcow et al don't.

 

 

*There are BMWs I would consider, but we're mostly talking "normal" coupes or saloons there; not "marketing specials".

And, unlke all standard BMWs, it's FWD......eeek!

Wonder when they are going to do a M sport version of this... :p

Well, it's better than the 2 series "Gran Coupe" I suppose. But unless you buy into the Bayerische Mist Wagon brand* I struggle to see what it offers that a C-Max, Vw Touran?, Nissan Cashcow et al don't.

 

 

*There are BMWs I would consider, but we're mostly talking "normal" coupes or saloons there; not "marketing specials".

 

It has a BMW badge, that's why people will buy it. It will have no discernible difference to that what is offered by other manufacturers. No different to any other manufacturer moving into a market segment for which they don't currently have a presence e.g. Jaguar moving into the mid sized saloon segment with the XE.

 

With BMW it is usually them creating the niche.

It has a BMW badge, that's why people will buy it. It will have no discernible difference to that what is offered by other manufacturers. No different to any other manufacturer moving into a market segment for which they don't currently have a presence e.g. Jaguar moving into the mid sized saloon segment with the XE.

 

With BMW it is usually them creating the niche.

Way to say exactly what I said, but using twice as many words.

To be honest if i had a family and the choice to drive that or a vauxhall meriva id take the bmw

I was sceptical about this until I had a poke around one in the stealers. The interior is very nice indeed and it's deceptively spacious inside. Decent boot too.

The FWD issue is abit of a worry tbh but then again does it really matter on this type of car? Not sure.

Wonder when they are going to do a M sport version of this... :p

They already do. More dilution of the ///M brand lol.

As mentioned above it will sell as it has a BMW badge on the front. My wife's 2014 Octavia 1.6 TDI DSG went back last month and she has been given a BMW 320d SE with 8 speed auto box.

 

I really don't know why the car magazine journalists and people who own them say it is the best compact executive to have as in my eyes it has several drawbacks compared to the Octavia.

 

1. The seats are the most basic, flat, uncomfortable seats in any car we've ever had. You cannot adjust them when you are sat in them, you have to stop, get out, adjust the height, try driving it, and repeat until you find a comfy position. There is no lumbar support. Ridiculous for an 'executive' brand (better seats are a cost option).

 

2. The boot is nowhere near as good as the Octavia hatch as the boot opening is way too small to get things like suitcases/boxes etc in (a 3 series GT hatch is now available but somewhat more expensive). 

 

3. The rear seats don't fold at all, they are fixed (it is a cost option to have folding rear seats).

 

4. The BMW Business sat nav is one of the worst inbuilt systems I have used. The best zoom is 125 yards, (Skoda sat nav does 25 yards zoom). At 125 yards in cities with lots of close junctions it's very easy to take the wrong turning. You cannot enter a house number, it will take a postcode or road name at best).

 

5. The 8 speed auto box is nowhere near as smooth as the DSG when it's cold, better when it gets hot but still not DSG smooth.

 

6. The first time I drove it at night I though one of the headlight bulbs had blown, the headlights are that bad, both low and high beam. The Octavia also had halogen headlights but they were pretty good in comparison.

 

 

Points in favour of the BMW over the Octavia are:

 

1. It has a better cruise control system. The set speed is maintained even when going down hills as it automatically brakes the car.

 

2. The performance is much better, but not really a fair comparison as the Octavia was a 1.6 TDI, the BMW 2.0 twin turbo.

 

It's not that the BMW is a bad car, just that the Octavia is the better car. The BMW is just not what they make it out to be by a long way.

 

One thought that crossed my mind is both the Skoda and BMW badges are round in shape, so get some BMW badges and put them on your Skoda and the Skoda would outsell the BMW by miles.

 

I won't even bother comparing the BMW to my Superb Elegance FL. The Superb easily wins outright.

 

Horses for courses etc.

 

If you ask most BMW owners what the letters B.M.W. stand for I suspect well over half wouldn't have a clue.

I personally think the 8 speed auto from bmw is far superior to the dsg of vw.

Vw's 10 speed dsg will be interesting when it arrives

I personally think the 8 speed auto from bmw is far superior to the dsg of vw.

Out of interest what makes you think the BMW is the better auto box?.

 

I find it jerky when cold, better when it gets hot but certainly not DSG smooth.

 

Must say the BMW auto box gear selector lever movement is better, but that's about it.

They already do. More dilution of the ///M brand lol.

 

Now I was actually joking when I typed that, they will stick the M badge on anything these days!

As mentioned above it will sell as it has a BMW badge on the front. My wife's 2014 Octavia 1.6 TDI DSG went back last month and she has been given a BMW 320d SE with 8 speed auto box.

 

I really don't know why the car magazine journalists and people who own them say it is the best compact executive to have as in my eyes it has several drawbacks compared to the Octavia.

 

1. The seats are the most basic, flat, uncomfortable seats in any car we've ever had. You cannot adjust them when you are sat in them, you have to stop, get out, adjust the height, try driving it, and repeat until you find a comfy position. There is no lumbar support. Ridiculous for an 'executive' brand (better seats are a cost option).

 

2. The boot is nowhere near as good as the Octavia hatch as the boot opening is way too small to get things like suitcases/boxes etc in (a 3 series GT hatch is now available but somewhat more expensive). 

 

3. The rear seats don't fold at all, they are fixed (it is a cost option to have folding rear seats).

 

4. The BMW Business sat nav is one of the worst inbuilt systems I have used. The best zoom is 125 yards, (Skoda sat nav does 25 yards zoom). At 125 yards in cities with lots of close junctions it's very easy to take the wrong turning. You cannot enter a house number, it will take a postcode or road name at best).

 

5. The 8 speed auto box is nowhere near as smooth as the DSG when it's cold, better when it gets hot but still not DSG smooth.

 

6. The first time I drove it at night I though one of the headlight bulbs had blown, the headlights are that bad, both low and high beam. The Octavia also had halogen headlights but they were pretty good in comparison.

 

 

Points in favour of the BMW over the Octavia are:

 

1. It has a better cruise control system. The set speed is maintained even when going down hills as it automatically brakes the car.

 

2. The performance is much better, but not really a fair comparison as the Octavia was a 1.6 TDI, the BMW 2.0 twin turbo.

 

It's not that the BMW is a bad car, just that the Octavia is the better car. The BMW is just not what they make it out to be by a long way.

 

One thought that crossed my mind is both the Skoda and BMW badges are round in shape, so get some BMW badges and put them on your Skoda and the Skoda would outsell the BMW by miles.

 

I won't even bother comparing the BMW to my Superb Elegance FL. The Superb easily wins outright.

 

Horses for courses etc.

 

If you ask most BMW owners what the letters B.M.W. stand for I suspect well over half wouldn't have a clue.

I'd disagree with a few of your points:-

Not sure why you would have to get out of the seat to adjust it. They work by pulling a lever and shifting your weight accordingly, but this does take a little getting used to.

Business Nav is fantastic, you can definitely enter house numbers and the zoom goes waaay closer than 125yds on my car.

We have a ZF-8spd and a DSG car. The ZF 8spd is far smoother so not sure if a problem on the 320d you had.

A minor pint but the 320d is single turbo not twin.

You also neglect to mention driving dynamics. The RWD Beemer will out-handle the Octavia by a country mile imho.

They really are chalk and cheese so any comparison is going to be be tricky, one is a small sporty saloon and the other is a big budget hatch so different beasts for different purposes really. :-)

Out of interest what makes you think the BMW is the better auto box?.

I find it jerky when cold, better when it gets hot but certainly not DSG smooth.

Must say the BMW auto box gear selector lever movement is better, but that's about it.

Just the fact the 8 speed gives more kick than the dsg 6 speed.

The older 320d with the 6 speed auto feels sluggish whereas the 8 speed on the 320d makes it come alive and feel like a different car. Pretty awesome box imo

Now I was actually joking when I typed that, they will stick the M badge on anything these days!

MSport is just styling and firmer lower suspension. Means nothing about speed.

You could say the same about audi's sline. Or mercedes amg parts, or volkswagens rline

I'd disagree with a few of your points:-

Not sure why you would have to get out of the seat to adjust it. They work by pulling a lever and shifting your weight accordingly, but this does take a little getting used to.

Business Nav is fantastic, you can definitely enter house numbers and the zoom goes waaay closer than 125yds on my car.

We have a ZF-8spd and a DSG car. The ZF 8spd is far smoother so not sure if a problem on the 320d you had.

A minor pint but the 320d is single turbo not twin.

You also neglect to mention driving dynamics. The RWD Beemer will out-handle the Octavia by a country mile imho.

They really are chalk and cheese so any comparison is going to be be tricky, one is a small sporty saloon and the other is a big budget hatch so different beasts for different purposes really. :-)

Fair comments.

 

Having Googled the seat adjustment it appears I am not alone in thinking the seats and their adjustment should be much better. I simply sat still as I was driving along and tried to make the seat go higher while I was sat on it still driving - I couldn't get it to go up until I got off it but I'll try it again at the weekend. It does seem to go straight down very suddenly, almost uncontrollably until it runs out of adjustment.

 

My boss has a BMW 5 series with Business nav and I checked his which also doesn't zoom better than 125 yards. Are you sure you don't have the Professional nav system?, or are we doing something wrong.

 

I though I saw BMW TwinPower somewhere under the bonnet so assumed (wrongly it seems) it was twin turbo but I bow to your superior knowledge. 

 

The driving dynamics are neither here nor there for me or my wife as we generally sit on the motorway day in day out at a pretty constant speed where ever possible, so I wouldn't notice the difference to be honest.

 

Due to my gentle driving style the auto box doesn't seem very smooth, it is much better if I put my foot down and go for it but I just don't drive like that. The DSG was very smooth however I drove it. My driving style is usually pretty gently.

 

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on my comments.

They already do. More dilution of the ///M brand lol.

 

Interestingly has X Drive badge

 

 

Fair comments.

 

Having Googled the seat adjustment it appears I am not alone in thinking the seats and their adjustment should be much better. I simply sat still as I was driving along and tried to make the seat go higher while I was sat on it still driving - I couldn't get it to go up until I got off it but I'll try it again at the weekend. It does seem to go straight down very suddenly, almost uncontrollably until it runs out of adjustment.

 

My boss has a BMW 5 series with Business nav and I checked his which also doesn't zoom better than 125 yards. Are you sure you don't have the Professional nav system?, or are we doing something wrong.

 

I though I saw BMW TwinPower somewhere under the bonnet so assumed (wrongly it seems) it was twin turbo but I bow to your superior knowledge. 

 

The driving dynamics are neither here nor there for me or my wife as we generally sit on the motorway day in day out at a pretty constant speed where ever possible, so I wouldn't notice the difference to be honest.

 

Due to my gentle driving style the auto box doesn't seem very smooth, it is much better if I put my foot down and go for it but I just don't drive like that. The DSG was very smooth however I drove it. My driving style is usually pretty gently.

 

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on my comments.

Yeah the SE seats are quite flat which isn't great. m-sport chairs are far nicer. I'd agree the seat adjustment is a pain. Traditional ratchet leave adjustment is far better. To go higher try holding the steering wheel and shifting your weight up and forward slightly. Can be tricky to get right at first.

I definitely don't have pro-Nav. The business Nav was updated in July last year when I got my M135i and does zoom much closer than 125yards. It's either 50 or 75 can't remember which but I'll check when I go out in it tomorrow. Not sure if pre-July '14 cars are limited to 125yards, pretty poor if they don't! Presumably you have tried turning the iDrive controller on the zoom function onto get a closer view?

The "twinpower" term is definitely misleading, I think it refers to "twin-scroll" turbo rather than 2 actual blowers.

Fair play to you if you drive mainly motorway and sedate, handling etc doesnt really come into it in that scenario so I'm with you on that :-)

To be honest if i had a family and the choice to drive that or a vauxhall meriva id take the bmw

Are they really in the same price bracket?

 

BMW's 'design language' does seem to be heading in the wrong direction at the moment. It started under Bangle in the nineties and they haven't really got it right since. The current 5 series is probably the nicest design in the range, followed by the 3 series, but neither set the bar very high for automotive design. i8 is novel but it would be hard to describe it as beautiful and the i3 is just plain odd (ugly?) to look at.

 

It's a shame really, because you used to want a BMW because they looked sporty and elegant and the interior and the way they drove was a bonus, now you only buy them for the badge and the way they drive. It should be pointed out though, that the designs don't appear to stunt sales in any way - so what do I know???

BMW seem just as obessed about filling every niche as VAG. I wait now for the BMW Duster equivalent.

 

BMWs used to be, as Jlwah says paragons of elegant design with cars that looked good for years. Seeing a C-Max with a BMW grill on the front was a bit of a shock, it might be well built but that's just not what a BMW is all about to me.

What ever you do, don't under estimate them. Not sure what engines are in them. I was behind one last week, the thing could out perform my vrs. The one time when I did give it a bit of beans when we both over took a car, the bmw was pulling away.

2 series is front wheel drive and it is sporting the replacement floor pan that will be used in the Mini and many new BMW's to come as I have been told by the BMW sale representative.

 

I will be distancing myself from BMW later this year when my 1 series will be swapped. 1 is a great handling car but not without issue and certainly not the ultimate driving machine.

What ever you do, don't under estimate them. Not sure what engines are in them. I was behind one last week, the thing could out perform my vrs. The one time when I did give it a bit of beans when we both over took a car, the bmw was pulling away.

Probably a 2l diesel with 184bhp