I am going to change my opinion slightly after re-watching the very start of the video.

 

*FREEDOM overtook the Golf on the way around the roundabout.

*Golf was actually in the correct lane for exiting at next left. FREEDOM was in the same lane behind Golf and then decided to overtake him.

*I think Golf driver got the hump and decided to prevent FREEDOM from "cutting-in".

*Golf accelerated and deliberately undertook FREEDOM, perhaps trying to force him right or "prove a point".

*FREEDOM probably did not see him and assumed the overtake was done, and that cutting left was safe.

*Golf may have then really got the hump (after being forced left) and cut accross FREEDOM, trying to further press his point. Maybe this explains why he accelerated away after impact - he was furious?

 

I am sure that neither intended for there to be a collision, but both could have prevented it. Golf should have avoided being a ****er, and FREEDOM could have moved left a little earlier rather than leaving it to the last moment.

 

I do not see the Golf as being in the wrong lane (until just before impact when he may have been forced left) but there appears an element of road-rage and stupidity on his part that led to the accident.

Edited 11 March, 201511 yr by Orville

Following the road markings as the OP comes round, he is definitely in the correct lane to do what he wants to do, it is clearly marked A3(M) on more than one occasion. I think the confusion at the exit is because of the current habit of changing the lane markings at a junction to show drivers entering the roundabout where to go. That's why the lane markings change at the previous junction. I don't see that the OP did anything wrong. The issue is that the insurance company may be too lazy to argue the case and will call it 50/50.

 

On more than one occasion I've find myself trying to work out which lane I should be in when going round a roundabout I don't know. On some roundabouts the lane markings seem to change almost randomly.

 

I'm getting more tempted to fit a camera....

Golf moved right without paying attention, whilst OP appears to have been within the wrong lane for exiting the roundabout and pulled over too agressively. Unfortunately neither saw the others move until too late and they both met in the middle. I think both have reason to feel a little aggrieved.

The Golf is clearly in the wrong here, sorry but I don't see how you can see it otherwise. Without the camera insurance companies would say 50-50 blah blah etc etc, which is the point of the op's post.

Both lanes are marked A3(M) and as you can see here the Golf is clearly out of his lane:

*Makes a mental note*

 

Avoid driving in the UK, not only is the traffic on the wrong side, the markings on roundabouts leave room for interpretation.

*FREEDOM probably did not see him and assumed the overtake was done, and that cutting left was safe.

*Golf may have then really got the hump and cut accross FREEDOM, trying to further press his point. Maybe this explains why he accelerated away after impact - he was furious?

 

I am sure that neither intended for there to be a collision, but both could have prevented it. Golf should have avoided being a ****er, and FREEDOM could have moved left a little earlier rather than leaving it to the last moment.

 

I do not see the Golf as being in the wrong lane (until just before impact) but there appears an element of road-rage and stupidity on his part.

 

Sorry, I don't see the OP "cutting in" at any point, he is simply following his lane as much as the markings will allow. If you watch him go by the previous junction you will see the lane markings change so that he is forced to cross them to leave at his exit. I think the Golf thought the OP was continuing round the roundabout and assumed he could cut across a lane. It probably was just a mistake, but it wasn't the OP's fault.

In the lead up to the exit there were only two lanes. If Golf was next to mk4gtiturbo then Golf would have been forced left as FREEDOM swung left to exit. This may have annoyed Golf, causing him to make a stupid aggressive move right in an attempt to scare mk4gtiturbo and prove a point.

 

Without a 360 degree view it is difficult to prove exactly what happened, but from what I have seen both drivers could have prevented the accident. Having now watched this 10-15 times I think Golf takes most of the blame, but mk4gtiturbo does appear to cut right rather late and possibly without indication.

 

edit: The more I watch it the more it looks like mk4gtiturbo cut Golf up on the exit, but then Golf acted stupidly and cut back accross, resulting in bump.

Edited 12 March, 201511 yr by Orville

Who is "FREEDOM" ?  

Who is "FREEDOM" ?  

I am an ass. I meant "mk4gtiturbo". Too many beers this afternoon.

I am an ass. I meant "mk4gtiturbo". Too many beers this afternoon.

 

Thought I'd better check  I was starting to wonder if Mel Gibson somehow featured.  

Turn the sound up and there are two bumps. One when mk4gtiturbo pulls left and a louder one when Golf pulls right. I think mk4gtiturbo forces Golf left and may bump him first, and then Golf stupidly strikes back.

Edited 12 March, 201511 yr by Orville

edit: The more I watch it the more it looks like mk4gtiturbo cut Golf up on the exit, but then Golf acted stupidly and cut back accross, resulting in bump.

 

Thats exactly how it looks like to me as well.

 

If cam footage were legal in court, there is no way golf would get 100% of the blame.

 

 

Turn the sound up and there are two bumps. One when mk4gtiturbo pulls left and a louder one when Golf pulls right. I think mk4gtiturbo forces Golf left and may bump him first, and then Golf stupidly strikes back.

 

I can hear the first knock, but its hard to tell if it was a bump.

Edited 12 March, 201511 yr by toni8b

Got to be honest and say it looks like crap driving all round. What is this obsession with the right lane? You know that you've got to veer left but still chose to drive in the right lane rather than position yourself more suitability.

One should not only be grateful for dash cams, but also for the laudable Google Earth and its Street View facility as this clarifies the situation (I believe).

 

The varied opinions in this thread are both right and wrong and thus 50/50 is to my mind the correct apportion of blame.

 

The OP states that he was in the correct lane at the point of exiting the roundabout (northbound onto the A3(M)) and around 2007 that would have been a true statement, but things have changed…

 

Satellite imagery of this roundabout shows marked changes between 2007 and 2011 (the date of the last image) with additional access lanes and traffic lights having been added between these times, and changes to the road markings having been made, notably just before and at the exit road where this incident occurred.

 

Imagery of the roundabout in 2007 (below) clearly shows the white lines dividing the then two lanes immediately before the exit, both having right of access to the northbound A3(M) slip road, with the right lane (beyond the exit) continuing on and splitting into two lanes (for the B2177 and A27). Note at this time that the entry road onto the roundabout before the exit road where this incident occurs comprises of two lanes, and that there are no alphanumeric markings on the road, only arrows.

 

 

Imagery of the roundabout in 2011 (below) shows that the road prior to the entry road onto the roundabout before the exit road where this incident occurs remains two lanes, but the entry road itself now comprises of three lanes, and that there are alphanumeric and arrow markings on the road, both lanes prior to the entry road (as the OP states) still indicating right of access to the northbound A3(M) slip road.

 

 

The picture below of the immediate area approaching the northbound A3(M) slip road where this incident occurs now shows that the road has 3 lanes immediately after the entry road onto the roundabout leading up to the exit road where this incident occurs (undoubtedly as a result of the addition of the third lane on the entry road), the left lane now being solely for those exiting onto the northbound A3(M) exit road, the centre lane being for those exiting onto the northbound A3(M) exit road or continuing on past the exit towards the B2177 or A27, and the right lane being solely for those continuing on past the exit towards the B2177 or A27. If you look carefully you can see where the old lane markings are across the centre lane.

 

 

It's a bad road layout.

 

If, as happened, the Golf was travelling in the correctly marked left hand lane and the OP was travelling in the correctly marked right hand lane prior to the entry road before the exit road onto the A3(M) northbound, then they would by default be in the centre and right lanes respectively after passing the entry road, the Golf then being within his rights to continue within his lane which would become either the right hand exit lane onto the A3(M) northbound or the left hand lane continuing around the roundabout for the B2177, and the OP would need, when his way was clear, to indicate and move over left, crossing the white line into the centre lane (which again becomes the right hand exit lane onto the A3(M) northbound)… which appears to be where the problem has arisen.

 

If the Golf stayed within his lane in a position not allowing the OP to move in either ahead or behind him, then the OP would need to either accelerate ahead or brake and fall in behind him, or alternatively just force him into the left hand lane. This would explain the Golf drivers comments regarding the OP moving into his lane, and that they weren't far apart (people don't tend to make comment about someone changing lane a safe distance ahead). Had the Golf been intending to continue within his lane past the exit towards the B2177 (as would have been his right), then the OP would have cut across right in front of him or worse collided with him to a far more serious degree.

 

vRS overtakes Golf, Golf gets upset, thinks 'this crafty bugger's going to cut him up to get onto the next exit' so holds his lane position, vRS cuts in towards exit at last minute causing Golf to swerve left and then thinking he's avoided him Golf cuts back into the right hand lane clipping the vRS.

 

Just my opinion, but I think there was a bit of ego on one or the others part, or a bit of road rage, or perhaps both. No judgement… knowing I've got the punch of a very torquey 2.0 TDi under my foot, I sometimes use it to get a little bit further ahead than convention would normally allow. We don't buy these cars to enjoy leisurely 30mph drives around the green lanes after all. 50/50 would have to be my verdict, as as others have said, could have been avoided. It's a bad road layout, but the OP did mention that he'd been using this roundabout/exit for some time, so should have known to change lane earlier, make his intention to change lane clearer, or slowed to allow the Golf to pass… at which point he could have then just nailed him on the A3(M) slip road!

 

 

 

No judgement from me but, I  do absolutely agree with the OP, everyone should have a Dashcam however, I feel Dashcams real do need to include some education materail within their literature as to when and when NOT to use the evidence they can provide.

I don't understand why everyone thinks the OP did anything wrong. He was in the right lane of 2 lanes marked (on approach) for the exit. Granted, the lane designation markings are poor at the exit but how is that the fault of the op? At the moment of impact, the OP is still in the right lane of 2 for the exit and there is no sudden swerve as suggested by others. The other car is clearly part way on the the right lane when the impact occurs.

Im with the OP on this one.

EDIT : except for the music... What on earth were you listening to? [emoji33]

Edited 12 March, 201511 yr by Greg R

Got to be honest and say it looks like crap driving all round. What is this obsession with the right lane? You know that you've got to veer left but still chose to drive in the right lane rather than position yourself more suitability.

 

When you get to the top of the slip road it becomes the slip road to come off the next junction, the right lane merges onto the A3 which is where I was going

EDIT : except for the music... What on earth were you listening to? [emoji33]

 

Thank you.  Music is Drake, it's supposed to be a chill out tune!!

I don't understand why everyone thinks the OP did anything wrong. He was in the right lane of 2 lanes marked (on approach) for the exit. Granted, the lane designation markings are poor at the exit but how is that the fault of the op? At the moment of impact, the OP is still in the right lane of 2 for the exit and there is no sudden swerve as suggested by others. The other car is clearly part way on the the right lane when the impact occurs.

Im with the OP on this one.

 

 

He was in the right (correct) lane (and still would have been right up to the exit road prior to the changes made between 2007-2011)… but only up to the point immediately after the entry road prior to his exit road, at which point it became a 3 lane (marked) section requiring him to cross the white line into the (centre) lane the Golf was using which by default became the right hand exit lane onto the A3(M) northbound!

The Golf was in the middle lane past the first exit (marked A3(M) ), which became the inside (of two) before the A3 exit.  I was in the outside lane, which become the outside (of two) and is also marked A3(M).  At the A3(M) exit point it becomes three lanes again from the road that has just joined (One for straight on and two to go around an onto the A27.  It always has been two lanes from the first exit to the A3(M).

The point at which the changes were made is irrelevant. Im looking at the road markings as they are in the video. As i said, the markings at the junction are somewhat lacking.

As i said, the OP made no sudden swerves. Even if you argue that he changed lanes, the impact doesn't occur as the OP made that change. In my view, the OP was perfectly within his right to make that manoeuvre. Regardless of any of the events beforehand, the golf was the one drifting from the inside lane to outside lane on the slip road.

I had a minor incident on my way to work one morning a few months ago. A driver approaching in the opposite direction drifted onto my side of the road and we exchanged wingmirrors. I turned around and went after the driver (taxi that didn't stop) after getting details of a witness. I found the driver in a lay-by a mile or so up the road trying to disconnect the remains of his mirror. He immediately tried to argue 50/50. Thankfully with the witness evidence, his insurer's footed the bill. I will have a dash cam in my Octavia when it finally arrives

I think this image (posted by Nookiebear) shows the line taken by both cars exiting the roundabout.

 

It would appear from the road markings that mk4 (red line) was in the wrong lane and may have cut up Golf (blue line) who was within the correct lane for exiting the roundabout. mk4 may have caused a small bump (audible on video) before Golf reacted angrily and cut back in to mk4, causing big audible bump. mk4 could get done for reckless driving, but perhaps mk4 lacked due-care and Golf was within blind-spot beforehand.

 

Golf driver was definitely an ass and caused the main impact, which perhaps was deliberate on his part. It would be interesting to know whether mk4 has a bump/scuff on the rear of his car, indicating an initial tap before the big bump.

Edited 12 March, 201511 yr by Orville

Unless I am missing something, there was absolutely no need for the Golf to strike the OP....I am sure I can hear indication on part of the OP and he simply follows his lane onto the sliproad.....the Golf accelerated wasnt really paying attention and washed wide striking the OP..I cant see how in anybway this is a 50/50....firstly the Golf undertakes and does so badly without any real lane etiquette.

Part of it I bet is hes thought...awesome new vRS I'll show him what my Mk4 V6 4 Motion can do.....not their finest hour I am sure.

I am however wondering if he did in fact consider trying to flee.....the automatic reaction aftet hitting anothet car isnt to try and drive quickly....I think he came to his senses and appreciated he was unlikely to outrun a vRS as even the TDI is hardly slower than a porky 2.8 V6 Mk4 Golf...testament to progress I suppose.

Had the OP been in a slower car he'd probably have tried to ditch him.

Is it known if the other party was insured and legal to drive the Golf?

I had a similar roundabout incident which is going to end up 50/50. I'll look up your dashcam thread later

I think this image (posted by Nookiebear) shows the line taken by both cars exiting the roundabout.

 

It would appear from the road markings that mk4 (red line) was in the wrong lane and may have cut up Golf (blue line) who was within the correct lane for exiting the roundabout. mk4 may have caused a small bump (audible on video) before Golf reacted angrily and cut back in to mk4, causing big audible bump. mk4 could get done for reckless driving, but perhaps mk4 lacked due-care and Golf was within blind-spot beforehand.

 

Golf driver was definitely an ass and caused the main impact, which perhaps was deliberate on his part. It would be interesting to know whether mk4 has a bump/scuff on the rear of his car, indicating an initial tap before the big bump.

 

This is completely wrong!!  I was in the BLUE lane and the Golf was in the inside lane (unmarked in the picture).  Please look at the video again, try it on full screen, it's filmed in a good quality.  There is only one set of damage, one impact

Is it known if the other party was insured and legal to drive the Golf?

 

He says he is insured on a trade policy and he has given me his address and mobile number.  I have the conversation on film.  Once he had calmed down and realised I had it on film he offer to pay cash for the repairs.  I've not tried to contact him yet.