Watershed

[Miz]

Does anyone else find the new Booking.com ads on tv a bit close to the knuckle for teatime viewing, or am I just being overly sensitive?

 

 

[snow_muncher]

yeah, you're too booking sensitive

[Outofthi5world]

And beachin, Beachin and booking are a bit iffy for some people. I don't booking care though personally.

[GentleGiant]

You mean the booking/fooking element?? OFCOM have already decided it is OK.

[Scribbler]

Im a bit annoyed that 4OD, 4+1 and 4 constantly keep playing adds for Cucumber where two gays are clearly in a state of undress engaged in sodemy and whatever else gays get upto. Whilst I think there should probably be a program for gays after 9pm Its very wrong to force this into my kids eyes in an ad break. Is it just me that feels like this or am I just a dinosaur who should get with the times. Respecting people right to be gay is very different to pretending its normal and/or promoting it to children in my opinion.

[softscoop]

 

Im a bit annoyed that 4OD, 4+1 and 4 constantly keep playing adds for Cucumber where two gays are clearly in a state of undress engaged in sodemy and whatever else gays get upto. Whilst I think there should probably be a program for gays after 9pm Its very wrong to force this into my kids eyes in an ad break. Is it just me that feels like this or am I just a dinosaur who should get with the times. Respecting people right to be gay is very different to pretending its normal and/or promoting it to children in my opinion.

 

 

 

I just don't know where to begin to reply to that.....

 

Would you have an issue with man/woman doing the same at the same time on TV?

 

Would that be promoting "normal" behaviour to your children?

[Scribbler]

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't know where to begin to reply to that.....

 

Would you have an issue with man/woman doing the same at the same time on TV?

 

Would that be promoting "normal" behaviour to your children?

 

 

Yes I would have an issue if it was before the watershed. Although because its a woman then her breasts would be exposed so the camera shot would have to be a bit more constrained meaning children might not be able to tell what was happening below the waist. Because it was two men then they were basically fully exposed their genitals were I guess touching so you could basically get the whole act in shot without breaching existing nudity guidelines if you could have seen the grimace on the face of my 10 year old and 6 year old you would have been alarmed aswell I Hope. I don't think im homophobic but I think there needs to be a line and the protection of children.

[Norco]

I don't think a TV ad is going to turn your kids gay....

[Scribbler]

I don't think a TV ad is going to turn your kids gay....

 

If they end up being gay then they end up gay. Not really the point I was trying to make and I would tend to agree that exposure to one tv ad isn't going to sway their sexuality in one direction or another.

As a society we defend the rights of people to be gay and we protect them from persecution which is as it should be. However i think there is an underlying fundamental issue. Should we promote this physical act to young children. My opinion is that they should be insulated from such things until they are old enough to make their own decisions based on a sound balanced mind. Also should we be saying that its normal behaviour? we can protect peoples right to have choices without this obsession with it being normalised. In my opinion from a purely anatomical perspective the practice its sexual deviance and not normal. Hold on to something because im making a very generalised sweeping statement but i think its fair to say that the media in general has a very high percentage of Gay and lesbian employees not necessarily representative of the general population and in my opinion there is an agenda to push this into mainstream TV. I think kids will then at critical stages in their development when hormones are having strange chemical imbalances and emotional ambiguity be influenced into choosing what's considered now trendy in popular culture. I understand that people will have differing views on the matter and that i don't wish to impose my views on anyone else but i would like to be in control of what my children are exposed to and i feel they are being shown things which i don't think are appropriate.

Edited 19 March, 2015 by Scribbler

[Norco]

1, Being Gay isn't a choice.

2, Turn the TV off.

 

I would me more concerned about what is deemed acceptable in wider terms. I would be more worried about the violence that appears pre 9pm and the content of music videos (and to be honest Miley Cyrus in general).

[mender]

Im a bit annoyed that 4OD, 4+1 and 4 constantly keep playing adds for Cucumber where two gays are clearly in a state of undress engaged in sodemy and whatever else gays get upto. Whilst I think there should probably be a program for gays after 9pm Its very wrong to force this into my kids eyes in an ad break. Is it just me that feels like this or am I just a dinosaur who should get with the times. Respecting people right to be gay is very different to pretending its normal and/or promoting it to children in my opinion.

That sounds like Russian thinking.......it is a slippery slope into their state of affairs which uses this point to promote bashing

 

Any kind of blatant and inappropriate sexuality shown on TV at inappropriate times when it will obviously be viewed by kids is clearly wrong, whatever the sexual bias of the content

[Jrjg]

If they end up being gay then they end up gay. Not really the point I was trying to make and I would tend to agree that exposure to one tv ad isn't going to sway their sexuality in one direction or another.

As a society we defend the rights of people to be gay and we protect them from persecution which is as it should be. However i think there is an underlying fundamental issue. Should we promote this physical act to young children. My opinion is that they should be insulated from such things until they are old enough to make their own decisions based on a sound balanced mind. Also should we be saying that its normal behaviour? we can protect peoples right to have choices without this obsession with it being normalised. In my opinion from a purely anatomical perspective the practice its sexual deviance and not normal. Hold on to something because im making a very generalised sweeping statement but i think its fair to say that the media in general has a very high percentage of Gay and lesbian employees not necessarily representative of the general population and in my opinion there is an agenda to push this into mainstream TV. I think kids will then at critical stages in their development when hormones are having strange chemical imbalances and emotional ambiguity be influenced into choosing what's considered now trendy in popular culture. I understand that people will have differing views on the matter and that i don't wish to impose my views on anyone else but i would like to be in control of what my children are exposed to and i feel they are being shown things which i don't think are appropriate.

Some interesting points there Scribbler.

"My opinion is that they should be insulated from such things until they are old enough to make their own decisions based on a sound balanced mind."

If we were to closet children from sexual acts, signs of love affection and intimacy in the media or on television, I think there would have drastic (negative) effects on their socialisation and development. There would be an entire generation of vulnerable naive children who hadn't a clue what so ever about how to express themselves sexually or emotionally with a man/woman they were attracted to.

In order for a juvenile to have a sound balanced mind, an opinion, an identity, surely they will have to experience (through viewing, reading, hearing or first hand) these things that you suggest be kept from them? 'He who never made a mistake, never made anything' is a little proverb a wise old man keeps on reminding me (there's a 55 year age gap so you can imagine the amount of mistakes he has witnessed me making!).

"Also should we be saying that its normal behaviour?"

Yes, we should be saying that acts of homosexuality are normal. Because it is normal. It may not be an average overall of the population, a 'mean', but it is 100% okay to be happening on our televisions.

"I think kids will then at critical stages in their development when hormones are having strange chemical imbalances and emotional ambiguity be influenced into choosing what's considered now trendy in popular culture."

I don't think homosexuality behaviour is something that can be influenced by popular culture. It is not a case of "Well I haven't met a woman I've liked for a while... But there are lots of gays/lesbians on television... Maybe I'll see if I like men". If a person is attracted to the opposite sex from the initial stages of their sexual development and those feelings and that desire continues well into their life, when they have created an identity for themselves, then that person is homosexual, end of. And that is something, I would not say, any trends of popular 'phases' can influence or sway.

"Hold on to something because im making a very generalised sweeping statement" that made me giggle

I sense an interesting and thought provoking debate Scribbler.

JRJG

[Jrjg]

1, Being Gay isn't a choice.

2, Turn the TV off.

I would me more concerned about what is deemed acceptable in wider terms. I would be more worried about the violence that appears pre 9pm and the content of music videos (and to be honest Miley Cyrus in general).

That's true, if the short advert including a clip of two near naked bodies offended and concerned you, don't ever leave the music channels on (A - because of the poor music and B - because of the state of the provoking and sexually explicit dancing!).

That is something I still do not find interesting at all. I understand that 'sex sells'. But the number of dance, pop, rap music videos, that are basically: performer mimes along whilst being surrounded by near naked female dancers is ridiculous, boring and repetitive. I wish the majority of music video directors/writers would fathom some imagination!

JRJG

[Scribbler]

I Appreciate the comments above and it appears that I am in a minority of one with my views. That said I still respectfully disagree. I don't think kids need to be coerced into being gay. I think if the attraction is there then that's the path they will take but I firmly believe that what's shown on TV will influence a child's decision making process.

 

Without trying to get to graphic the anus is a one way valve the sole purpose of stopping foreign bodies entering your lower intestine. The sphincter of which your body has many is to control the passage of waste products. The fact that it happens to be close to the prostate which can be the source of pleasure doesn't mean it should be abused for gratification. I Suppose the old adage is that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I'm not religious so my views are not bigoted from this perspective. However I am an engineer so the mechanics of it nark me a little. That said its up to adults what they choose to do with their bodies. To pretend its 'normal' to pacify the very vocal and militant LBGT community is a bit of step to far though in my opinion and I don't think we should be teaching it to kids. Homosexuality exists in all of nature so its not explicitly a quirk of the human race however natural selection in animals keeps the frequency very low where as I fear having 'SYNTHETIC' kids to coin a phrase used by D&G in the media recently is kind of playing god. (Not that I'm a believer) :peek: .

[Scribbler]

1. Evidence to suggest that its not hardcoded and can be influenced by environmental factors. I would say 50% genetic and 50% geographic, environmental factors.

2. Why should I? im a TV licence payer I just don't want my kids exposed to this before the watershed. they could run the trailer without the sexual content I have no problem with the actual program I can choose not to watch it. There is clearly an audience for it and im a supporter of supply and demand.

 

1, Being Gay isn't a choice.

2, Turn the TV off.

 

 

[Norco]

Thanks for the entertainment. Scribbler. 

 

Please provide evidence? Sure that will be an interesting read and your guesses are definitely 100% defendable...probably.

 

Are we still talking about an advert for a tv program or are you talking about some other how to be gay 101 instructional film? 

 

Have you even stopped to consider that the "synthetic" kids won't be gay or is that back to your evidence of choice?

[Scribbler]

Thanks for the entertainment. Scribbler. 

 

Please provide evidence? Sure that will be an interesting read and your guesses are definitely 100% defendable...probably.

 

Are we still talking about an advert for a tv program or are you talking about some other how to be gay 101 instructional film? 

 

Have you even stopped to consider that the "synthetic" kids won't be gay or is that back to your evidence of choice?

 

Your welcome

 

I wont bother with the evidence you will say its bias but just take a look at the one aspect 'the demographic'. High populous Gay areas tend to be inner city (Manchester London etc.) In countries with high acceptance pro gay media, In fact we get gay people from other countries gravitate to us for 'the scene'. Then Take a look at china japan etc where they have high moral codes / values very little in the media and the proportions are very miniscule. Im not saying I think China or Japan are better than the uk I much prefer our liberal attitudes to diversity. Im just saying you can have acceptance without promoting it. The line is very thin and gray but I think C4 are crossing it.

 

Yes we are talking strictly about ads I have stated above I Have no problem with the programs.

 

"Synthetic kids" was someone else's comment I just threw it in for the sake of the debate seeing as it came from two openly gay people. They seem to realise that what they have is a variation from the norm yet still happy with their circumstances. I think your probably correct their is no correlation between the outcome of adopted or 'synthetic' kids from gay couples becoming gay themselves. It might be said though that that doesn't necessarily mean its not to the detriment of the child that they don't have a father or mother figure. However Single parents seam to manage so this argument is probably moot. I think society is better in a conventional format but then im probably just a dinosaur as I said earlier.

[Scribbler]

That sounds like Russian thinking.......it is a slippery slope into their state of affairs which uses this point to promote bashing

 

Any kind of blatant and inappropriate sexuality shown on TV at inappropriate times when it will obviously be viewed by kids is clearly wrong, whatever the sexual bias of the content

 

It may surprise you to hear that im a big fan of the likes of Stephen Fry and aligned with his views on Russia and its abhorrent persecution of homosexuals. This religious and matcho ideology is very different from my scientific and moral objections. I take it you haven't seen the advert in question im not apposed to gays being shown on TV holding hands kissing etc. Not a problem it happens in real time on the streets and is a reflection of public life. But this was a very graphic explicit act that only just didn't breach nudity obscenity laws due to the camera angles.

[kilted]

Personally I know it is not genetic or geographic or a "lifestyle choice" as I have a number of friends who have all said that accepting what they were was one of the most difficult things they have ever had to do. Most lived in areas where there were few or no gay/lesbians, the fact that coming out subjected them to a lot of negative viewpoints and the loss of people they had classed as friends, they came from families with no previous gay/lesbian.

 

The reason why it may seem to be geographic is that, like most population groups, they tend to migrate towards people of similar viewpoints. So like British ex pats in Spain or other nationalities here, they tend to group together.

 

As for the advert, no comment on it as I haven't seen it. What I will say is that we, as a country, could do with relaxing our viewpoints with regards to sex in general. Countries with more relaxed viewpoints tend to have less issues with everything related to sex - lower youth pregnancy, fewer STDs, less sex related crimes etc

 

Edit - the reason why there is perceived to be a lower % of gay/lesbian people in countries such as China and Japan is purely down to the culture- anyone coming out risks being shunned completely by family, friends and work. They might still be gay/lesbian but they simply can not acknowledge it to anyone.

Edited 19 March, 2015 by kilted

[Scribbler]

Personally I know it is not genetic or geographic or a "lifestyle choice" as I have a number of friends who have all said that accepting what they were was one of the most difficult things they have ever had to do. Most lived in areas where there were few or no gay/lesbians, the fact that coming out subjected them to a lot of negative viewpoints and the loss of people they had classed as friends, they came from families with no previous gay/lesbian.

 

The reason why it may seem to be geographic is that, like most population groups, they tend to migrate towards people of similar viewpoints. So like British ex pats in Spain or other nationalities here, they tend to group together.

 

As for the advert, no comment on it as I haven't seen it. What I will say is that we, as a country, could do with relaxing our viewpoints with regards to sex in general. Countries with more relaxed viewpoints tend to have less issues with everything related to sex - lower youth pregnancy, fewer STDs, less sex related crimes etc

 

Edit - the reason why there is perceived to be a lower % of gay/lesbian people in countries such as China and Japan is purely down to the culture- anyone coming out risks being shunned completely by family, friends and work. They might still be gay/lesbian but they simply can not acknowledge it to anyone.

 

Now I think your generalising a bit. Like heterosexuals I would think not all gays are the same. I would say you have a large proportion who are gay simply because that's how they have been born and this is the element that is predetermined. I would say to a smaller degree some people have chosen to be gay because its seen as cool and aligned with their chosen social path (friends, media influences). A case example of this would be a fashion designer unless your gay you aint getting no where in that industry Hair dressing I could go on. Then there are the ones who live as you say in rural areas who do it for the attention to get at their parents etc. (Little Britain Sketch "Only gay in the village") Its a dramatized cliché' but doesn't mean its not true as comedy is generally based on real life. Then there are unfortunately examples of people becoming gay after suffering abuse as children at the hands of paedophiles this happens far to often and many Lesbians state this as an early experience and can be directly attributed to their rejection of Male figures. Another group as you rightly suggest are Gay and unfortunately disguise it until later life or die having never revealed their sexual orientation through shame or worry of persecution. Its a complex subject and to dismiss an element of it being a choice or influence is as bad an assumption its all predetermined.

[@Lee]

I'm not sure if I'm aroused or turned off by the bloke in high heels and denim hot pants on the Moneysupermaket ad.

 

Do I win five pounds?

[trundlenut]

I'm not sure if I'm aroused or turned off by the bloke in high heels and denim hot pants on the Moneysupermaket ad.

Do I win five pounds?

This from a man with a hardhat and harness!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[trundlenut]

I get the feeling we are sailing pretty close to the wind here. Some comments are bordering on "I'm not homophobic but..."

I would suspect the nature plays a far far bigger role than nurture in terms of sexuality.

Also this isn't a binary thing, its not just straight or gay there is a whole lot in between.

I have two young children and find there are a lot of things on TV etc. that I don't want my kids exposed to but going back to the OP there is no difference between two blokes, a man and a woman, or two women. Broadcasters will do things purely for the titillation/outrage/shock value. If a man and a woman doing suggestive things is no longer enough then make it two blokes and wait for the Daily Mail to launch into outrage/free advertising mode.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[NatalieSearson]

I find it sad we still live in a world where its still considered abnormal or immoral to be anything other than straight. Something we should shield our young from... It's a very backwards and old fashioned opinion in my mind.

As someone mentioned earlier, children are exposed to all manner of influential and potentially harmful things, music and the videos that occupany them promoting drugs, sex, gun crime, violence... Women demeaning themselves, girating half naked up against men etc. Please don't take my word for it, go and look and listen to the video for Anaconda by Nikki Minaj.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/anaconda-lyrics-nicki-minaj.html

This was being played on mainstream radio, video blasting out whenever on music channels. You tell me that kind of message isn't more harmful than god forbid, two blokes love each other.

And let us not forget the things they have access to when they go online.

[Scribbler]

I find it sad we still live in a world where its still considered abnormal or immoral to be anything other than straight. Something we should shield our young from... It's a very backwards and old fashioned opinion in my mind.

As someone mentioned earlier, children are exposed to all manner of influential and potentially harmful things, music and the videos that occupany them promoting drugs, sex, gun crime, violence... Women demeaning themselves, girating half naked up against men etc. Please don't take my word for it, go and look and listen to the video for Anaconda by Nikki Minaj.

http://www.metrolyrics.com/anaconda-lyrics-nicki-minaj.html

This was being played on mainstream radio, video blasting out whenever on music channels. You tell me that kind of message isn't more harmful than god forbid, two blokes love each other.

And let us not forget the things they have access to when they go online.

 

When you get down to brass tacks we have to ask our selves the question why are we here what's our purpose?. There is a binary answer to this if you remove all emotion and any other acquired aspects and that is procreation. Like any other organism on this planet we have evolved so that a male and female of the species will copulate and bread offspring to further the species and ensure its survival whilst we are mortal beings this needs to happen. Eating, ****ting, communicating & working etc. are all secondary aspects to allow the primary function to work. This is not my opinion this is just fact. Now if what your advocating is that we should show One Male sodomising another in an ad break to kids of any age to be fashionable then I am quite happy to be labelled old fashioned. The rest of what you say is irrelevant but what I would say is that women gyrating half naked up against men is a cultural thing and will change over time as with any trend. I must say its more in keeping with the rest of the animal kingdom although typically its the males that will use displays to attract the attention of the females. Its a very primal thing. So I don't have a problem with the 'dirty dancing'

would I like my daughter to be doing it when she's older probably not but then im old fashioned as you have already pointed out.