Ok I've got a forge fmic which is turd I've done a wide mouth which has helped temps. My setup is pushed on a mdx376 at smidge under 2.1 bar @230 bhp it's most I'll get tbh.

I've been thinking about just going 2260, airtec fmic and better exhaust and downpipe. Clutch is already helix Smf.

Few questions...

1.What's the max I'll make comfortably on stock injectors pushed?

2. Is a diff really needed? , boost comes in later and less aggressively on a gtb setup?

3. Is it much quicker?! I know top end is better, how quick is it compared to other cars? Atm I'm as quick as a bog standard astra vxr, anyone have any examples?

4. How is the Mpg mine is pretty good at the moment.

5. I'm thinking the hybrid of 2260 and 2060 that Xman offers is probably best bet?!

6. Is a tubular manifold going to be much better I don't see any data on better spool or top end?

Thanks

Do it you won't regret it one bit. If I had my time again with modding the car this is the route I would have gone, GTB turbos were a little unknown then.

Is being as quick as an say a focus rs with dssr injectors doable?

Is a tubular manifold going to be much better I don't see any data on better spool or top end?

 

I bet it won't make a blind bit of difference.

The EGT'S are better with a tubular by a long way,so a lot safer than a cast manifold.

 

The EGT'S now with my tubular drop rapidly after a WOT run,where as on the cast manifold you would need to sit with the car idling before EGT dropped down.

 

As for BHP on a rolling road road day Alexs and Adams both mapped by Faboka with 2260's on,Adams did make iirc about 7bhp more,running a tubular.

I think the main difference between tubular vs cast is as Kev said, the EGT's deop off a lot quicker after a WOT run. Also with a tubular everything sits in the standard position so you ca reuse the standard oil return without having to butcher it.

I think it was something like 7bhp and 15lbs ft difference between mine and Alex's, nothing really in it difference wise with turbo spool

The EGT'S are better with a tubular by a long way,so a lot safer than a cast manifold.

 

The EGT'S now with my tubular drop rapidly after a WOT run,where as on the cast manifold you would need to sit with the car idling before EGT dropped down.

 

As for BHP on a rolling road road day Alexs and Adams both mapped by Faboka with 2260's on,Adams did make iirc about 7bhp more,running a tubular.

 

Peak EGT will be exactly the same, it's peak EGT which damages your VNT.

 

7 BHP is a statistically insignificant difference between two different engines run at different times on the same dyno.

The EGT'S are better with a tubular by a long way,so a lot safer than a cast manifold.

 

The EGT'S now with my tubular drop rapidly after a WOT run,where as on the cast manifold you would need to sit with the car idling before EGT dropped down.

 

As for BHP on a rolling road road day Alexs and Adams both mapped by Faboka with 2260's on,Adams did make iirc about 7bhp more,running a tubular.

 

finally after a few months you agree a tubular manifold is better!

ive beat dc5's stage 3 astra vxr's a focus rs and many focus st's go for it but get a diff and some good brakes if you haven't already got them

Well its the best comparison your going to get in the real world on these engines isn't it?

 

I know in your fantasy world we should really run the engine on a bench and try both manifolds on the same engine and turbo etc,if you want to do it please go ahead and post the results.

Back to the point...

 

1.  Stock nozzles you should be able to make 260bhp tops. Any more and you'll be pushing EGT's to unsafe levels. You're best to fit an EGT gauge also (but drill a hole and fit it to where each branch of the manifold meets, NOT the EGR blank). I will report on EGT's when mine is back together.

 

2.  I would say that a diff is not needed day to day any more than it is with your current spec. In fact, your current spec probably needs it more than if you were to run a 2260 because of how smooth the delivery is. As I'm sure you already know, these cars tend to want to find the nearest hedge if you go anywhere near WOT when exiting a corner! So basically it's not something you need for definite, but it will ultimately make the car FAR more drivable.

 

3.  Having come from a 220bhp PD150 hybrid setup previously, my 2260 setup is MASSIVELY quicker! There's a huge difference in performance. Plus the way it now revs out makes the car infinitely more fun to drive.

Comparing to other cars... obviously this forum doesn't condone any form of street racing so I will not condone it openly either. However, I can confirm that some modern cars of up to 330bhp cannot pull away though...

 

4.  MPG, same as normal I've found.

 

5.  Hybrid 2260's, i.e. 2265, have yet to prove any real difference in performance over the standard 2260. Obviously the billet wheel will ensure it can take the boost a bit better and it should naturally flow more air. Ultimately the head becomes the restricting factor. There's only so much air that you can physically ram through it without modifying it. Plus there will be a slight increase in lag over a standard 2260, although questionable whether you'd notice it.

 

6.   Tubular as per comments above. Kev has just upgraded both to a tubular AND race nozzles, so perhaps his comparison isn't ideal. I would imagine EGT's are slightly lower though. Power wise I'm not convinced there's a real difference. I've been on another rolling road and someone was running the same setup as me but with a tubular and his made about 1 or 2bhp more than mine if I remember correctly. I think that due to my side-exit exhaust, his was running a different map - as I can see in my mirror clearly if it's smoking. So less fuel going through mine, as I wanted it clean as possible...   Upshot of the story, if you can afford to go for a tubular now then I would. As if you decide you want one later on then you'll need a new turbo too.

 

 

To summarise.... DO IT!!!

Well its the best comparison your going to get in the real world on these engines isn't it?

 

I know in your fantasy world we should really run the engine on a bench and try both manifolds on the same engine and turbo etc,if you want to do it please go ahead and post the results.

 

Back in the real world us engineers only use what we know works, a good ELR tubular manifold is nice to have and in racing where 5 BHP can make all the difference and money's no object then of course we'd fit one despite the fact that they're prone to cracking and therefore less reliable. They are really designed for use on large FGT petrol turbos where EGT isn't an issue so they can be easily wrapped, where there are no VNT vanes damping the pulses from each cylinder and where spool is a problem because of the large FGT.

 

The EGT issue is a red herring because peak EGT doesn't change, the spool isn't an issue because it's a VNT and spool is dependant on gas speed which is actuator controlled.

 

It might help with reversion on longer duration cams and pick up a few BHP from that, however on your standard cammed low-revving turbodiesel reversion isn't an issue so fitting one is frankly an ostentation.

 

You might not like it, but it's you driver types who live in the fantasy world and us technical bods that try to make your dream real. Fools and their money...

Talking of fools and there money if your this automotive engineering god you claim to be why are you bumming about in a mk1 fabia?

Surely with all the race engines etc you say you've built you would have earned enough to be in a better car?

Or are you a unemployed keyboard warrior with plenty of time on your hands to read automotive engineering books then come on here quoting them?

who are you chopsing about now? well if its me i have 3 cars 1 500bhp 1 300bhp and 1 standard (new vehicle) just turn up next track day and lets get this over sick of the banter!

Talking of fools and there money if your this automotive engineering god you claim to be why are you bumming about in a mk1 fabia?

Surely with all the race engines etc you say you've built you would have earned enough to be in a better car?

Or are you a unemployed keyboard warrior with plenty of time on your hands to read automotive engineering books then come on here quoting them?

 

Neither. I'm semi-retired.

 

I used to have spare money before I got divorced and I drove a company car for years but to be honest with you cars and status and stuff is for boys with fragile egos, I couldn't care less.

I'm unashamedly parsimonious and loathe spending money on things that depreciate heavily like cars.

 

You shouldn't be surprised to hear that probably 75% of all the motorport companies I've ever worked for went bust. Most of them do.

 

I take three-month contracts, get paid a day rate and never do more than three contracts in a row and I never work for the same firm more than twice. Because they go bust, the taxman doesn't like it and the ex-wife would get more than she deserves.

 

I'm currently working on an unusual van conversion for a new client and I'm strapped into a very tight NDA.

 

You could easily check the veracity of the information I provide if you weren't so lazy.

who are you chopsing about now? well if its me i have 3 cars 1 500bhp 1 300bhp and 1 standard (new vehicle) just turn up next track day and lets get this over sick of the banter!

 

It's not always all about you...

who are you chopsing about now? well if its me i have 3 cars 1 500bhp 1 300bhp and 1 standard (new vehicle) just turn up next track day and lets get this over sick of the banter!

And how many are currently drive able at this second...

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Guys this is all getting a bit silly now! We're all adults here!

Back on topic... GTB turbo viability...

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And how many are currently drive able at this second...

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all of them just the fabia don't rev past 3500rpm vcds time tomorrow though. ha

Thanks for the info guys much appreciated.

Might as well go for the 270-280 with the nozzles too and tubular manifold.

Thanks for the info guys much appreciated.

Might as well go for the 270-280 with the nozzles too and tubular manifold.

 

good choice!

who are you chopsing about now? well if its me i have 3 cars 1 500bhp 1 300bhp and 1 standard (new vehicle) just turn up next track day and lets get this over sick of the banter!

 

Jesus your dull,do you read anything properly before mouthing off?!?!

 

Neither. I'm semi-retired.

 

I used to have spare money before I got divorced and I drove a company car for years but to be honest with you cars and status and stuff is for boys with fragile egos, I couldn't care less.

I'm unashamedly parsimonious and loathe spending money on things that depreciate heavily like cars.

 

You shouldn't be surprised to hear that probably 75% of all the motorport companies I've ever worked for went bust. Most of them do.

 

I take three-month contracts, get paid a day rate and never do more than three contracts in a row and I never work for the same firm more than twice. Because they go bust, the taxman doesn't like it and the ex-wife would get more than she deserves.

 

I'm currently working on an unusual van conversion for a new client and I'm strapped into a very tight NDA.

 

You could easily check the veracity of the information I provide if you weren't so lazy.

How could I check the info with only your Briskoda username to go by?

I always thought your replies sounded like talking to a grumpy old man,seems I was correct.

 

Jesus your dull,do you read anything properly before mouthing off?!?!

 

 

 

nope I always think or read afterwards

Back to the point...

 

1.  Stock nozzles you should be able to make 260bhp tops. Any more and you'll be pushing EGT's to unsafe levels. You're best to fit an EGT gauge also (but drill a hole and fit it to where each branch of the manifold meets, NOT the EGR blank). I will report on EGT's when mine is back together.

 

2.  I would say that a diff is not needed day to day any more than it is with your current spec. In fact, your current spec probably needs it more than if you were to run a 2260 because of how smooth the delivery is. As I'm sure you already know, these cars tend to want to find the nearest hedge if you go anywhere near WOT when exiting a corner! So basically it's not something you need for definite, but it will ultimately make the car FAR more drivable.

 

3.  Having come from a 220bhp PD150 hybrid setup previously, my 2260 setup is MASSIVELY quicker! There's a huge difference in performance. Plus the way it now revs out makes the car infinitely more fun to drive.

Comparing to other cars... obviously this forum doesn't condone any form of street racing so I will not condone it openly either. However, I can confirm that some modern cars of up to 330bhp cannot pull away though...

 

4.  MPG, same as normal I've found.

 

5.  Hybrid 2260's, i.e. 2265, have yet to prove any real difference in performance over the standard 2260. Obviously the billet wheel will ensure it can take the boost a bit better and it should naturally flow more air. Ultimately the head becomes the restricting factor. There's only so much air that you can physically ram through it without modifying it. Plus there will be a slight increase in lag over a standard 2260, although questionable whether you'd notice it.

 

6.   Tubular as per comments above. Kev has just upgraded both to a tubular AND race nozzles, so perhaps his comparison isn't ideal. I would imagine EGT's are slightly lower though. Power wise I'm not convinced there's a real difference. I've been on another rolling road and someone was running the same setup as me but with a tubular and his made about 1 or 2bhp more than mine if I remember correctly. I think that due to my side-exit exhaust, his was running a different map - as I can see in my mirror clearly if it's smoking. So less fuel going through mine, as I wanted it clean as possible...   Upshot of the story, if you can afford to go for a tubular now then I would. As if you decide you want one later on then you'll need a new turbo too.

 

 

To summarise.... DO IT!!!

 

With all the comments on this thread, I felt it worth quoting this one again...