Car Values (VW group)

[bhoywonder]

Yeah I don't get that sales tactic either - I mean the cost of the tax on the whole ownership cost is bugger all...

 Just spoke to a 2 Passat bluemotion owners in work and the big reason for buying what they bought was because it's only £30 tax and they would be seriously ticked off if they have to start paying more for road tax which may happen. 

 

Both are estates - I think they are only 105bhp what if they have to get tweaked to make the emissions that was stated when purchased and in doing so it reduces the bhp. Thats a big car to drive with only 105bhp never mind less.

 

Or maybe I am missing something.

[StreetHawk]

I don't think you're missing anything but at this stage nobody knows if the car tax will increase for these cars or if the cars will need a modification.

[charles]

 Just spoke to a 2 Passat bluemotion owners in work and the big reason for buying what they bought was because it's only £30 tax and they would be seriously ticked off if they have to start paying more for road tax which may happen. 

 

Both are estates - I think they are only 105bhp what if they have to get tweaked to make the emissions that was stated when purchased and in doing so it reduces the bhp. Thats a big car to drive with only 105bhp never mind less.

 

Or maybe I am missing something.

So lets assume a 'Passat Bluemotion' or 'Octavia Greenline' for example should be in a higher tax band than they actually are for emissions, how would anyone know in order to charge more for tax and a  2.0 Vauxhall Insignia for example has the same-ish emissions which means GM must be doing the same fiddling of emission tests. I cant believe a VAG group vehicle is any more polluting than a Vauxhall or a Ford within the same class of vehicle.

Edited 24 September, 2015 by charles

[Hurdy]

So, let's say that all the VAG group 1.6 and 2.0 EA189 diesels all have the "emissions defeat software" fitted (which is highly likely as emission CO2 figures are very much similar across the brands); What are the possible outcomes and fallout from this?

- 100% recall by VAG for all cars affected for software revision - This would give two possible outcomes....either they keep the same power and torque outputs and emissions officially increase or they keep the emissions the same and power and torque are reduced.

- If power and torque are reduced then then owners are due compensation based upon misrepresentation under the sales of goods act.

- If emissions are increased then owners are possibly due compensation based upon misrepresentation under the sales of goods act as long as they can prove that they will be losing out on either long term residual value as a direct consequence of the changes or the owners are directly financially burdened due to any increase in road tax levy.

I chose my Seat 184 FR for the wife based on power, running costs and residuals and now all three could theoretically change. If the Mrs keeps the car for ten years, then tax becomes more of a concern, whereas if if she keeps the car three years it is residuals which are more of a possible concern. How would you base claiming for any compensation, which all people affected SHOULD be due?

If she kept the car for another ten years and the government re-assessed the car from its current £30 a year tax to the next class up at £110, then why should she foot the extra £800 bill?

If she kept the car for three years and part exchanged the car and it turned out that she lost out on residuals by £1k+ Due to the VAG debacle why should she foot the extra £1k+? ..... and the extra £240 road tax?

Regardless of residuals and possible extra taxation, if the emissions are reduced by a compulsory recall, why should she have to drive a car that would inevitably have less power, torque and maybe a worse fuel consumption than what she originally bought the car with. This is especially pertinent for most drivers who selected the most powerful diesel in the VAG range. I know that I for one looked at the extra power and torque the 184 gave over its competitors, so why should I possibly have to run a car with less and if this was the case, how much would the car lose? 10bhp? 20bhp?30bhp? 20lbft? 30lbft?, 40lbft?

Where do I stand if I tell the dealer to bugger off and that they aren't touching my car?

[Hurdy]

What The Guardian says on this matter.....

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/sep/24/volkswagen-emission-scandal-how-it-affects-you

[Breezy_Pete]

Poorly researched, that.

They confuse engine family - EA189 - with engine code, only the latter being found on a V5.

Then they seem to think NO_x emissions are something a UK MOT measures.

[Defenderben]

The next engine to come under scrutiny will be BMW's 2.0ltr diesel thing as that is a massive seller in the 320d guise with company car people due to its uber low emissions (claimed 118g/km) giving £30 ved from a 2.0ltr engine?

As for VW prices I think it's a case of wait and see, let the media hype dye down a bit.

[BJM]

Can we just clarify some things I'm a bit confused about?

The test that this software was designed to fudge apparently is an artificial procedure designed solely to measure the output of NOx gases.

Surely this has no direct effect in the UK as, although Euro 5 and Euro 6 limits do include NOx levels, these are never quoted in any sales literature, and have no effect on a vehicles VED or its BIK which are both based on the level of CO2 emitted.

As for the complex calculation about residuals, around 60%. of all cars sold in the UK are company sales and typically sold on after 3 years / 75,000 miles. Whilst agreeing that the private buyer of an affected vehicle may have cause for concern, the vast bulk of any depreciation occurs in the first 3 years of ownership, and is based on a lot of other factors than simply dubious emission claims. Most owners of effected cars will, like me, have bought after this depreciation took place.

How much, and how fast, is this likely to depreciate further?

In around 2 years time I will be looking to trade in a 7 year old car with 200,000 miles on the clock. I confidently predict I will get £1500 - £2000 trade in against a newer model.

Much of the hyperbole about this seems to me to simply reflect the British ( and certain forum members ) love of declaring "We're all doomed"

[Gizmo]

Truth of the matter in the UK is you probably need 50 bhp to travel in towns and at 60-70 mph in UK National speed limits 100 BHP will be more than enough unless you are towing.

 

The real truth of the matter is a car with 50 - 100 bhp is bloody hard work on dual carriageways etc, you also need to drive them much harder than a 2.0 ltr to make anywhere near the same progress, so therefore producing far more emissions.

 

I do not drive my 2.0 and 1.9 TDi anywhere near it’s limit but what it does do is make the driving effortless. 

 

The thing I can see happening is the PCP / PCH deals are not going to be anywhere near as attractive in the short term as they will probably value the car much less after the contract has finished.

 

It might even be a good thing with regard to company car drivers... meaning that those who use the company car purely to commute to and from one permanent place of work may re-assess ‘owning’ a company car.

[Ootohere]

A car with 50-100 bhp might be hard work for some,

yet their 140 bhp car might only be using 100 bhp on motorways.

 

Hence the new Volkswagen Group Euro 6 engines in the A4 and the likes,

Active Cylinder, Cylinder on Demand, Over Boost, Variable Valve timing, Electric Superchargers, Hybrid Diesels etc etc.

 

Not rocket science, and cars are too heavy, which is why they needed more power in the first place.

70 mph Speed limits on Motorways in the UK as it is.

Even 100hp cars with 2 on board can climb a incline in the uk, if it is not a fat lump of a car.

 

1.4 TSI engines, even 1.2 & 1 litre petrols (Golfs / Golf Estates) are in Volkswagen / Audi /Seat / Skoda Middle sized family cars, the one most business users 

are going to end up with because of the UK Governments Taxes and HMRC.

 

VW are now doing big Motorway Cruiser Diesel Estates but with published figures of 180 ps.

 

[vxh26]

<SNIP>

VW are now doing big Motorway Cruiser Diesel Estates but with published figures of 180 ps.

<SNIP>

 

Thai may be true today, by Monday it will probably be history

[Ootohere]

Yes but us VW Fanboys will still love them when they do the right thing.  How is your VW doing?

 

[Hudson01]

Well my 1.6CR Elegance Fabia is 5 years old and i will be keeping it so am not concerned about the RV's.... the power i am bothered about, i have the £20 a year, 75bhp version so if they did something to '' fix '' any software in my car then i guess i would have difficulty in getting my car up a small hill !! What about those owners who have had their cars remapped/DPF removed.. i.e within the warranty period thinking that VAG group would never need to investigate their ECU/emissions at all !!

 

I am unsure how this is going to pan out but if there is any kind of compo on offer... count me in

Edited 26 September, 2015 by Hudson01

[Gizmo]

What about those owners who have had their cars remapped/DPF removed.. i.e within the warranty period thinking that VAG group would never need to investigate their ECU/emissions at all !!

 

The likes of Shark (and maybe others) will reflash the ECU FOC if a dealer overwrites the remap.

[Hudson01]

Just reading the article and it says, of course, that the vehicle will be recalled and the ecu will be '' updated ''..... i.e make it act like it did on the emissions test !! Sod that, this maybe the only recall i decline to have done.