VW aren't guaranteeing economy/CO2 emissions anymore with their 'fix'.

Says? Vw have always said there will be no difference in economy

Says? Vw have always said there will be no difference in economy

It was on the VW media website.......hedging their bets on the official certification test I'm assuming.

Nov 17 statement^^^^^

Journalist are distracted by more exciting news about cup holders and the expected life of the cigarette lighter.

Not just Journalists . . . . . . when there is no news, there is in fact nothing to say.

Not much news just now unless you bother to look beyond the end of your nose.

More probably as the Interim Report on Volkswagens Internal Report into the Defeat Device & Emissions Scandal comes out on the 10th December.

Then the stuff going on with Borrowings and Financing Volkswagen just to meet Fines and Court Actions.

Behind the scenes trying to weaken the Unions by the likes of Qatar Investment Holdings if that Journalism has any basis in fact.

 

The VW woes are only at the beginning and maybe if VW were communicating and showing examples of cars before and after 

the 'Fix', the owners would be more believing.

 

As it is VW are managing to manage non communication & delay rather well as usual.

It's astonishing how un-communicative VW are with their customers not a dickie bird since the original letters

I'll bet they are working feverishly to resolve the conundrum of power v emissions v economy prior to the official certification process........having promised

Same economy

No increase in CO2

And

Never mentioning power once

All eyes are on VW

And they know it

What is the Certification you are talking about, is it for the US, Australia or other regions for Euro 6 Emission Engines 2009-14

because there is no EU Certification happening for Europe is there, ?

just a nod and a wink to a blind man is it not and accepted by the German Authority and other EU Governments.

 

The Euro 6 Co2 / MPG Irregularities is different again, because examples of those vehicles on the list have to be tested and have corrections 

of Co2 / VED banding.

All engines subject to the recall I understand will have to have a 'known' level of emissions for the relevant market to simply satisfy regulatory authorities that there was something actually done/modified to ensure an acceptable level of CO2/NOx.

I would expect an addendum to the current owners manual for basic legal reasons to start with because currently the data is false.

No mention of compulsory Recall in the UK that i have heard of.

'Recall Actions' seems to be the term used now, but no Safety matter or Recall.

No mention of compulsory Recall in the UK that i have heard of.

'Recall Actions' seems to be the term used now, but no Safety matter or Recall.

I'm not referring to that

Just an example of a 'fixed' engine being subjected to a testing regime to certify a satisfactory fix,as opposed to a manufacturer' claim

Whether individuals have their cars fixed is, it seems, voluntary

It's astonishing how un-communicative VW are with their customers not a dickie bird since the original letters

It may be that they are busily seeking solutions, haven't arrived at anything definitive yet and can't see the point in providing a running commentary?

They have a running dialogue going with Investors and bankers to keep them afloat, 

but the Customers they cheated are Possible Creditors in the long run.

 

VW were the ones that said Owners would be informed and a press release to say 'No news yet', just need a skilled IT Guy like 

you to put it out there.  >snip<   As you do.

Edited 7 December, 201510 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

It may be that they are busily seeking solutions, haven't arrived at anything definitive yet and can't see the point in providing a running commentary?

Exactly

The pr dept will be working overtime though to convince you that all is just dandy and not to worry one little bit and they have it under control

Just don't ask any pertinent questions such as those referring to power or economy.......they can't truthfully answer that yet

And

May not want it discussed after the 'fix' either.

At the risk of bringing the thread back to a technical base, I bought my Superb 2.0 DGS elegance 170  very much on the basis of performance and especially mpg, although it was nice that the Carbon Dioxide emmisions were specified as low enough to get a reduced road tax.

 

However, I don't recall ever seeing anywhere what the Nitrogen Oxide or Nitrogen Dioxide emmisions were claimed to be or what they actually were.

Accordingly scares such as '40 times the claimed NOx' emissions (which includes both oxides) are a bit pointless if we don't know what was being claimed in the first place.

Even if we did know we would also need the scientific background to understand the meaning of the emmisions units and what actual effect the NOx emmisions, real or stated, would have on anything.

 

So can anyone tell me...

1. What, on any material likely to be seen by a customer, did VW claim my skoda would produce as NOx emmisions? (Better still if it is broken down by NO and NO2)
2. What did the car actually produce during the USA test in cheat mode
3. What is the car actually producing in normal everyday running - has anyone really tested this?

Since NOx is not part of the UK MOT (that only tests Carbon Monoxide and hydrocarbons, not Carbon Dioxide or the Nitrogen Oxides)  I can't really see how I am to obtain any useful information to understand the issue.

This is made worse by the apparant confusion in the media, and in some forums, between CO, CO2, NO, NO2, and the four main hydrocarbons found in exhust gas 

 

All I can find seems to be angry comments and loads of lawers wanting me to go through them to claim for something that even they can't understand.

Edited 7 December, 201510 yr by dochsm

Basically, new car models undergo testing prior to being allowed on sale. The test criteria in Europe for the last few years are grouped into "Euro 5" , or currently "Euro 6" emissions regulations. These contain the detailed breakdown of what gases are permitted at what concentration. Not so detailed that they separate NO and NO2 though. Look them up to find the numbers for your car.

By passing these tests, in theory you know that your car is emitting less than or equal to those levels.

Edited 7 December, 201510 yr by Wino

V A G thought to be back-sliding?    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/business/sarcasm-and-doubt-precede-vws-update-on-cheating-inquiry.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Europe&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

However, I don't recall ever seeing anywhere what the Nitrogen Oxide or Nitrogen Dioxide emissions were claimed to be 

So can anyone tell me...

1. What, on any material likely to be seen by a customer, did VW claim my skoda would produce as NOx emmisions? (Better still if it is broken down by NO and NO2)
2. What did the car actually produce during the USA test in cheat mode
3. What is the car actually producing in normal everyday running - has anyone really tested this?

 

The answer to 1. is on your V5C in section 4, Vehicle Emissions

In my case it is a max for NOx of 0.131g/km and for HC+NOx of 0.160 g/km

 

Answering question 3 is the real knub of the situation. It has been reported that some cars have over 40 times the permitted level when used in the real world.

 

The Sunday Times of 29 November 2015 (News section page 26) reported on real world tests under the headline "VW diesels beat test without cheat device".

 

They were reporting on tests made by British firm Emissions Analytics, and other companies around Europe, which showed that Euro 6 vehicles (limit of 0.08 g/km for NOx) beat the test limit even when on the road. 

Top of the list were Audi A4, A5 and A6 Ultra with 0.9 of the emissions limit followed by the BMW 320d (also 0.9) and the VW Golf TDi at 1.0

 

Worst were the Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 l Tourer (9.5), BMW X3 (9.9) and the Fiat 500X 1.6 Multijet (10.6). They also said the the Fiat showed similar problems when tested by the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport.

 

I am sure similar tests are being made on Euro 5 vehicles and the results will come out in due course but it gives me hope that VW can produce a low emissions vehicle without the cheat device, even if it does mean using AdBlue.

 

In the same articles it says that car manufacturers are spending millions of pounds lobbying Brussels to raise the Euro 6 NOx level to double the current amount.

 

It kind of supports the view I have heard on the grapevine that VW may not be the worst in the real world and that other manufactures are keeping their heads down hoping not to be found out - not about type testing but about how bad they are in real road conditions.

I'll bet they are working feverishly to resolve the conundrum of power v emissions v economy prior to the official certification process........having promised

Same economy

No increase in CO2

Or, having solved the problem with a 50p bit of mesh they have put their feet up are are waiting for the storm to blow over at least as far as UK customers are concerned. Of course, the mesh will not cut any ice with Uncle Sam.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/transport/article4634859.ece

Another Top Engineer gone that knew everything about everything like the now Ex CEO Martin Winterkorn 'The Engineers Engineer'.

Yet 'they knew 'Nothing' about anything that was Illegal!

(They must of been on a day off when things were being done. 3 Monkeys the VW way.)

http://topgear.com/car-news/insider/engineering-legend-ulrich-hackenberg-retires-vw-group

Edited 8 December, 201510 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

The auto clubs in Australia are commissioning an independent testing company to investigate the difference between 'test' and real world emissions of new cars.

Just what the industry doesn't need.

I was in my local Skoda dealership this morning, and was told by the service manager, that the softwear update would be carried out, automatically, whenever my car was in, unless I specifically requested it not to be done, every time the car was booked in.

 

He, not surprisingly, had no idea of what the update would be, nor any knock on effects to the BHP, MPG, EGR or DPF.

 

 

 

Steve.

Software Updates / Enhancements should be done as part of a Main Dealer Service, they usually are.

They are done for various reasons to enhance the vehicles well being etc,

sometimes to the detriment of efficiency as it turns out, but to the protection of the engine / drivetrain.

 

It can not be done in this case unless your informed in advance that it is being done and why.

If VW Group Dealers are already doing Software Updates and using the owners as Guinea Pigs while acting as an 

agent for the Volkswagen Group then hopefully that will come out and actions will be taken.

(Say just now while vehicles are in on other Recall Actions / Service Campaign work which is outstanding.)

Like with any cars going in just now for Boost Sensors or similar field actions.

 

The Removal of the Defeat Device and any other actions to be taken on other peoples property has to be Appoved first by the German Authority, then the various Governments Authority then by the Owner of the vehicle ultimately.

 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions

Edited 8 December, 201510 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot