VW Emissions Scandal Thread V2

[lol-lol]

The ever so litigious Americans are set to pounce.

The EA189 fix is due to be announced with buyback a serious option due to the likelihood of a retro SCR install being required.

 

 

Ad Blu/SCR seems the most effective cure and is being used widely on trucks and VW are fitting it to many of their latest engines so retro fit seems the best answer and largely no effect on engine performance just carrying a few more kilos of kit.

[Ootohere]

Looking at some threads on this forum from owners of newer Skodas with Ad-Blue Systems it might be a need that VW / Skoda start selling Ad-Blue at a reduced cost to owners / drivers.

It looks like being a bit of an expensive way to achieve low emissions if the Euro 6 Engines really are achieving the low emissions on the road 

and not in EU and VW testing.

Buying Ad-Blue and still getting Fuel Economy well below VW / Skoda Official Figures even allowing for those being indoor on rolling road tests

is a bit of a joke really.

 

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

[gadgetman]

Looking at some threads on this forum from owners of newer Skodas with Ad-Blue Systems it might be a need that VW / Skoda start selling Ad-Blue at a reduced cost to owners / drivers.

It looks like being a bit of an expensive way to achieve low emissions if the Euro 6 Engines really are achieving the low emissions on the road

and not in EU and VW testing.

Buying Ad-Blue and still getting Fuel Economy well below VW / Skoda Official Figures even allowing for those being indoor on rolling road tests

is a bit of a joke really.

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

Scr is a lot cheaper than some manufacturers solutions.

[Ootohere]

Cheaper is good.

Good fuel economy, low emissions and longevity of the mechanicals are all good.  

Time will tell with what vehicles VWG are selling now as Euro 6 Emissions.

[Ryeman]

Ad Blu/SCR seems the most effective cure and is being used widely on trucks and VW are fitting it to many of their latest engines so retro fit seems the best answer and largely no effect on engine performance just carrying a few more kilos of kit.

I doubt that approach is practical or economically viable for cars which are significantly depreciated plus the structural modifications time consuming and expensive

The time taken occupying valuable workshop space would put dealerships under high stress I would think.

[Breezy_Pete]

^ Agree. Not gonna happen, even though technically it would be probably the most successful strategy.

[Ryeman]

Green Car Reports (today) has a VW video on how a diesel works, for the U.S. 'non-believers' I guess.

[logiclee]

Don't need SCR for Euro 5.

 

For the new 2017 tests SCR will definitely be needed and the catalysts will be bigger and much more adblue will be needed.

 

PSA are on record as saying it will be the death of the small cheap diesel.

 

Lee

[Tony R]

 

 

 

 

Diesel at the big 4 Supermarkets filling stations now below £1 a litre so it is unlikely that this month that less Diesel will be getting purchased in the UK, and as much as people are seemingly being put off buying diesel vehicles only time will tell later on in the year.

 

 

 

VW have managed to stretch things out quite well and the motoring journals are being very easy on them so far.

 

        To buy fuel from a supermarket is tempting but I have been told by more than one source the quality is not as good as that from  a " named " filling station, fuels from them supposedly have additives which are beneficial and which fuels from the supermarkets do not have.  Are there any members with FACTS on this ?

[Ootohere]

Like Royal Dutch Shell and the 'Secret Additives'.

Royal Dutch Shell import fuels to the UK in some cases with shared Facilities with Greenergy.

Greenergy Produce Tesco Momentum 99 petrol which has Additives just like Shell V-Power Nitro +,

Tesco Momentum 99 is sold at Supermarket Filling Stations.

(Just 5 pence a litre more than Tesco Unleaded 95 ron)

 

Greenergy supplies and Delivers to Esso Filling Stations in Scotland and in other areas of the UK.

Esso Quality Fuels. They do Diesel, Unleaded & Superunleaded.

Sainsburys are a Supermarket, and they have Diesel, Unleaded and Super unleaded.

 

Do you think there are Refineries that produce fuels that are not meeting the minimum standard and others exceeding it, 

or that the Additives in Shell Super Unleaded Petrol are worth 5 pence a litre more than the additives in Tesco Momentum?

 

As with Diesel, you might get what you pay for, well you will, because you are paying for a certain minimum energy, 

then paying Duty & Tax on the Duty, 

& maybe over the odds for the Advertising and Sponsorship of the Big Wholesaler / Retailers.

 

You only know if you think the Branded Non Supermarket fuels are worth it if you feel or know they perform better,

but best check what they are or where they come from, and see what the Secret Additives / Detergents are.

Many companies show the Spec / Formulation, Royal Dutch Shell do not make it easy to find.

http://greenergy.com/Products_services/retail.html

 

PS

You might just get what Traders are Buying on the World Market and Importing and then what is added or not in the UK.

Sometimes maybe better than the Minimum.

http://platts.com/latest-news/oil/london/uk-still-buying-winter-gasoline-as-european-refiners-8114744

Edited 5 January, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Ootohere]

http://www.royaldutchshellplc.com/2015/01/20/shell-fined-nearly-1-million-for-falsely-selling-green-motor-fuel

The Volkswagen Group & Royal Dutch Shell are well suited,

One fits Defeat Devices and sells into the US, and the other miss-sells Green Diesel.

Maybe some VW TDI Green Vehicle drivers bought the Green Fuel.

 

.......................................................

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-35227435

Edited 5 January, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Ryeman]

Some suggest the 'secret additive' is added post refinery and that that is the difference.

Personally I think it's more to do with marketing.......much like everything in life these days.

[Tony R]

Some suggest the 'secret additive' is added post refinery and that that is the difference.

Personally I think it's more to do with marketing.......much like everything in life these days.

 

Exactly,  the suggestion is some  " ingredients " are added by Shell etc but at what stage I do not know and whether to all fuels , especially diesel again, I am not aware.  Before my last MoT  I filled with the Shell V Power diesel and that disappeared very quickly, or seemingly so, but also it made the car run more  " smoothly ", THAT was noticeable.

[Tony R]

Here we go  :-  

              http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/05/business/vw-sued-justice-department-emissions-scandal.html?emc=edit_ee_20160105&nl=todaysheadlines-europe&nlid=72533936

[Tony R]

and :-   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/12081482/US-seeks-up-to-22bn-from-VW-after-launching-lawsuit-over-emissions-scandal.html?WT.mc_id=e_DM76578&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Cit_New_Tue_9Sections&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_Cit_New_Tue_9Sections_2016_01_05&utm_campaign=DM76578

 

       Pre cursor  for other countries?

[lol-lol]

US justice department as well as EPA will now look to sue VW which will make the potential losses for VAG greater than their market capitalisation and therefore mean they will not be able to continue in the US.  Not sure if US government can go for international reparation as well but would not be surprised if they go down that route also.

 

 http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160105102567/us-justice-department-suing-vw-for-breaching-clean-air-act

 

"VW is facing fines up to $32,500 per car for each violation that occurred before January 13, 2009 and up to $37,500 per car for each violation after that date. In a hypothetical worst-case scenario, Volkswagen would pay more than $90 billion, representing a lot more than the $18+ billion fine mentioned by EPA last September."

Edited 5 January, 2016 by lol-lol

[Ryeman]

I seem to recall VW had indicated that they had put aside ~6% of their 'development budget' to cover their liabilities.

It seems financing won't be an issue considering local government involvement also.

[Tony R]

        Is America trying to plug it's trade deficit?      

       http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/%C2%A361bn-legal-action-against-vw-begins-usa?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=Enews bulletins&utm_content=ACAR Enews Bulletin working Extra story subs (05.01.2016)::link5_3&utm_source=20160105

 

 

       Any advance / offers?

[Ryeman]

Remember

Germany's exports exceed the entire U.S.

They are embarrassing them, so don't expect an even handed attitude to VW.

[Tony R]

Remember

Germany's exports exceed the entire U.S.

They are embarrassing them, so don't expect an even handed attitude to VW.

 

        I am surprised, being the world's largest economy and Germany the 4th I erroneously thought America's exports would have been greater than Germany's?.

[logiclee]

        I am surprised, being the world's largest economy and Germany the 4th I erroneously thought America's exports would have been greater than Germany's?.

 

Who wants to buy American crap, especially the cars.?

With the exception of the odd halo model they are pretty dire.

 

Lee

[Ryeman]

I am surprised, being the world's largest economy and Germany the 4th I erroneously thought America's exports would have been greater than Germany's?.

As we are basically fed U.S. slanted news daily, don't expect inconvenient facts to get an airing when it comes to 'exceptionalism'.

They export iThingies (made in China).........oh no, they are apparently a Ireland/Singapore based company aren't they?.

After movies I'm not sure what else.

[Ryeman]

Who wants to buy American crap, especially the cars.?

With the exception of the odd halo model they are pretty dire.

 

Lee

Their cars are OK on U.S. roads though but certainly wouldn't adapt to Asia or Europe.

[warley]

I doubt that approach is practical or economically viable for cars which are significantly depreciated plus the structural modifications time consuming and expensive

The time taken occupying valuable workshop space would put dealerships under high stress I would think.

I would agree with that assessment. I was reading a few weeks ago that the main problem would be the location of the urea tank since the stuff can freeze which is an issue in the northern USA. With just about the only place inside that cars being in the boot that would create its own problems. So the yanks get their money back and we get a magic flow transformer!

[Ryeman]

I would agree with that assessment. I was reading a few weeks ago that the main problem would be the location of the urea tank since the stuff can freeze which is an issue in the northern USA. With just about the only place inside that cars being in the boot that would create its own problems. So the yanks get their money back and we get a magic flow transformer!

Of course the 2 markets are not comparable with the CARB/U.S. standard being much more strict than euro5 so the mods for,the U.S. make the write off a real possibility.