'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

[Scribbler]

I can't believe that the main argument for not getting rid of the corrupt politicians in the EU is that our MP's are just as bad maybe worse!

That's insane logic. The argument that we are better off inside the EU because we can change it or have a say is being debunked by the

quite frankly laughable resistance to Cameron's proposals. I mean they laugh at our requests when we are threatening to leave imagine

the hostility ambivalence if we had no bargaining chip. I can't imagine Corbin trying to negotiate any deals with any success only ones that

would be of detriment to our economy.

[domhnall]

bit embarrassing for Cameron to discover that there are more Brits claiming benefits in other EU states then there are EU nationals here claiming benefits. 

 

Doh!

[domhnall]

They are all as corrupt as each other. Doesn't matter who you vote for or what you want your gonna get ****** either way. They are all as bad as each other and don't give a rats ass about you, me, or uncle joe, all they care about is lining their pockets and getting elected again to keep their pockets full.

If you turned round to an MP and said that the economy can't cope with MP wages and we are going to make it a voluntary position only similar to PTA how many MP's do you think will still be there "for the good of the country and you, and me? none! Because they don't give a toss. They are all as corrupt as each other. Doesn't matter what you tick on the voters form your just going to get another greedy **** with no idea what they are doing except how to swindle their records to get a little more in their pockets.

 

that's more than a little cynical,I know plenty MPs who work bloody hard and are in it for the right reasons. 

[gadgetman]

bit embarrassing for Cameron to discover that there are more Brits claiming benefits in other EU states then there are EU nationals here claiming benefits.

Doh!

More embarrassing for Farage & UKIP as this is one of their key arguments for leaving!

His deputy couldn't even answer a straight question on question time last night as to what leaving the EU would actually mean.

Shrugged Shoulders and it'd be better than at present didn't cut the mustard with the panel or audience!

At least Mr Salmond had a white paper setting out his goals and aspirations on Scottish independence!

Farage's arguments during the TV debates focused on immigrants coming here (not from the EU, but let's gloss over that detail) as HIV health tourists.

You know the UKIP argument for leaving falls apart totally when you ask questions and get no straight answers or shifted straight onto immigration which they lump ALL immigration, not just that from the EU.

Channel 4 fact checked his numbers during the debates and couldn't get to his calculations going by European economic migration alone!

[Lady Elanore]

That's why I say they are all as corrupt as each other. Governments wether here, or abroad are only out to line their pockets.

 

 

I have to say I'm curious. It's ^^^ a phrase you often her in most walks of life, but what does it actually mean. If the Government was truly lining it's pockets from the UK, then it would have hundreds of millions (or more) of surplus money sloshing around. As I don't see MPs flying around on their own personal hover jets, where do you mean by 'lining their pockets'. As a person who does not believe in conspiracy theories, it doesn't add up to me

[Ootohere]

Not just the Government, the Opposition, the helpful Coalition Members, and the not obviously very important in the scheme of things do OK or even better in the trousering and lining of their pockets, then their various parties Backers & Sponsors,

& it can extend to family, friends and business associates, even their future income for 'services given' while in Office.

 

Career politicians that have never had a Trade or employment outside of Politics before or even during get by OK on their income from politics and seem to do rather well after leaving Public Office, as do their spouse or partner and wider family circles.

 

Some nice little earners for the likes of some Ex Labour Leaders and others, lots of others, 

Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, John Reid, etc etc, in great demand for their various contacts.

[Lady Elanore]

But it's such an easy thing to say "they are lining their pockets". I just don't understand what it actually means. Where is the proof?  What sort of money are we talking about? How does all this stolen money manifest itself in the real world? It doesn't add up to me and sounds like a conspiracy theory imho

Edited 5 February, 2016 by Lady Elanore

[Ootohere]

It is not 'Stolen Money', it is Corrupt Money, Bribes and such that is accepted as part and parcel of being a Politician, Civil Servant, Peer 

or one of those and such as those.

 

Who do you want to investigate it or stop it happening, Government, Elected Members, Law Lords or such?

EU Commissioners maybe could do it, or MEP's.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Straw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alistair_Darling

Edited 5 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Lady Elanore]

So if we assume the word 'Government' relates to several hundred people, there should be easily identifiable proof for all this illegal money and with the several hundred, or even thousands, of support staff (Civil Servants etc) that are need to run this corrupt business, it should be easy for us to prove the, as stated earlier "Government is lining it's pockets" ie it is a large illegally operating club for criminals. I look forward to seeing the proof of what will be a world shattering revelation when all this comes out.

 

Please enter proof below...

[Ootohere]

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

...............................................................................

 

 

For the simply corrupt UK MP type ones google.

MPs expenses and how long a sentence they each served.

 

That will be ones that were prosecuted, then there are those around them that thought there for the grace of God, 

and then there are those that will pass laws to have Benefit Cheats prosecuted, but never 'grass; on the fellow Honourable Member, 

or not so Honourable, or even honest.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carlyle_Group

John Major was once the European Chairman of The Carlyle Group.

(Obviously chosen for that because of his great knowledge and experince.)

Edited 5 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[Lady Elanore]

The post I originally replied to claimed the Government was corrupt. Obviously as a Government is made of humans some will be bad eggs, but I want to see proof that the 'Government' lines it's pockets. That, is a very big statement.

 

I await proof for this enormous accusation.

[bilun777]

A few people seem to be having a stressful  day today for some reason.

I only know one MP and he works extremely hard in a large constituency , a long commute from westminster.

He's not even my MP,unfortunately,and had a career outside politics previously.(teacher.)

I certainly wouldn't do his job for the hours he puts in for an MP's salary.

[Ootohere]

Lots of people put in the same hours for the same money or less and actually have work to do and achieve something worthwhile, 

then pay full price for meals, drink, travel, families travel, phones, computers, and pay taxes.

They do OK.

Perks a plenty, they even get resettlement money when the constituents decide they can now step off the gravy train and join the 

better one if they want.

[gadgetman]

Lots of people put in the same hours for the same money or less and actually have work to do and achieve something worthwhile,

then pay full price for meals, drink, travel, families travel, phones, computers, and pay taxes.

They do OK.

Perks a plenty, they even get resettlement money when the constituents decide they can now step off the gravy train and join the

better one if they want.

Plenty of people I know get perks doing normal work. Free gym passes, free fruit/drinks/snacks, heavily discounted canteen (£1.50 for starter, main and dessert!) amongst other things.

Are they on the gravy train too George?

[domhnall]

So if we assume the word 'Government' relates to several hundred people, there should be easily identifiable proof for all this illegal money and with the several hundred, or even thousands, of support staff (Civil Servants etc) that are need to run this corrupt business, it should be easy for us to prove the, as stated earlier "Government is lining it's pockets" ie it is a large illegally operating club for criminals. I look forward to seeing the proof of what will be a world shattering revelation when all this comes out.

Please enter proof below...

Don't let facts get I'm the way of a good rant. Everyone in Angus is inbred and incapable of distinguishing fact from fiction.

See? I can do baseless sweeping generalisations too.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[domhnall]

Plenty of people I know get perks doing normal work. Free gym passes, free fruit/drinks/snacks, heavily discounted canteen (£1.50 for starter, main and dessert!) amongst other things.

Are they on the gravy train too George?

Well obviously. People who get these things are obviously all on the take. Wake up and smell George's coffee.

:-)

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[Lady Elanore]

It's a bit of a cliché, but a half decent forward in the Premier League get paid more in a week than an MP in a year. Seriously, that isn't right  (yes I know, footballers are better than MPs yawn etc etc).

[Ootohere]

Domhnall,

What ever you quote that someone else quoted was not quoting me.

 

As to all on the take, 

i never suggested the legitimate perks were the corruption.

The Flipping houses / homes and pocketing profits might be one of the lesser legitimate corruptions of the allowable perks.

 

 

So hands up, 

you do not know any of the Politicians that you meet with that have claimed false expenses, 

or Councillors that have, just all something in my imagination.

 

PS

Its nice to see that plenty of the current Labour Scotland MSP's will not be getting to stand in the Holyrood Election,

sad to see some that are going to be. 

Plastic Socialists.

Time that some of the Scottish Constituency MP's that have lost the Party Whip were either cleared or standing down

from Westminster. Just My Opinion Obviously. 

 

Taking money & Perks in private employment is one matter, between Employer, Employee, Shareholders etc.

and totally different than skimming from the Public Purse and when in Public Office.

Edited 5 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[bilun777]

  OK only a thumb up,but the few I've met are SCRUPULOUSLY CLEAN to a nit picking degree.( unlike a lot of ordinary folk I've met).

You must have a very vivid Scottish Imagination George... :yes:

Edited 5 February, 2016 by bilun777

[domhnall]

Domhnall,

What ever you quote that someone else quoted was not quoting me.

As to all on the take,

i never suggested the legitimate perks were the corruption.

The Flipping houses / homes and pocketing profits might be one of the lesser legitimate corruptions of the allowable perks.

So hands up,

you do not know any of the Politicians that you meet with that have claimed false expenses,

or Councillors that have, just all something in my imagination.

PS

Its nice to see that plenty of the current Labour Scotland MSP's will not be getting to stand in the Holyrood Election,

sad to see some that are going to be.

Plastic Socialists.

Time that some of the Scottish Constituency MP's that have lost the Party Whip were either cleared or standing down

from Westminster. Just My Opinion Obviously.

Taking money & Perks in private employment is one matter, between Employer, Employee, Shareholders etc.

and totally different than skimming from the Public Purse and when in Public Office.

Re MPs being "cleared" one of them isn't accused of anything far less being investigated. The other yes is being investigated but these things have to be allowed the time to be looked into properly.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

[gadgetman]

OK only a thumb up,but the few I've met are SCRUPULOUSLY CLEAN to a nit picking degree.( unlike a lot of ordinary folk I've met).

You must have a very vivid Scottish Imagination George... :yes:

Of course there aren't any MSPs doing similar, not even an SNP MSP.

Just the Westminster and Europe lot apparently.

[Lady Elanore]

So, about this corrupt Government (and also all other Governments, as was stated). Proof ??

[Ootohere]

Are you wanting your proof from the person you quoted in post #55 and on the Government Collective. 

as in the Cabinet and not just individuals that make up the Government, who are not even all elected members.?

 

Domnhall, 

Being Probed, under investigation. Is one not having one, and the other under the other?

They are elected as SNP MP's they resign the whip making them Independents, 

if there is no reason to not become Party Members again then why are they not, or is it just to continue not 

embarrassing the Party  before the Scottish Elections.

 

Tonight Stewart Hosie MSP's aide who is a SNP Member & Dundee Councillor resigns. 

just another little local issue, just one of those things, accusations, no foundations in fact obviously.

Edited 5 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[gadgetman]

Are you wanting your proof from the person you quoted in post #55 and on the Government Collective.

as in the Cabinet and not just individuals that make up the Government, who are not even all elected members.?

I thought this was about the EU elections?

Seems to have reverted to venting your hatred of Westminster and the UK government again.

[Lady Elanore]

Actually proof would be good full stop. But the op of the comment would be a good start. I'm fascinated to see where this massive accusation comes from. Unless it was a flippant throw away line that wasn't meant to be taken seriously?