'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

[Ootohere]

Gadgetman, keep up please,  more attention to the subject maybe and less funnies..

 

Subject, EU in out Referendum if one is called.

UK leave or stay.  

Not the EU Elections, well not the poll in this thread.

[Lady Elanore]

Seems to have reverted to venting your hatred of Westminster and the UK government again.

The grass is always greener ...

[Ootohere]

No idea what that means in the context of this thread.

 

In case of doubt, i am pro EU, and the UK staying in the EU.

& i think the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP are a joke in the UK Parliament, and need to be clear on if they as parties want the UK 

in or out of the UK.

[Lady Elanore]

I'm pro EU, although I wish we had more powers to run our own country the way we see fit.

[gadgetman]

No idea what that means in the context of this thread.

 

In case of doubt, i am pro EU, and the UK staying in the EU.

& i think the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP are a joke in the UK Parliament, and need to be clear on if they as parties want the UK 

in or out of the UK.

Each party is pro, but seems to have given their MP's free reign to side which ever campaign they wish.

[Lady Elanore]

Each party is pro, but seems to have given their MP's free reign to side which ever campaign they wish.

The last I heard the Conservatives were asking for a bit of party union rather than following the wishes of the local electorate. I was led to believe that an MP was supposed to do the best thing for his constituency anyway, not necessarily what was the most popular thing.

[gadgetman]

The last I heard the Conservatives were asking for a bit of party union rather than following the wishes of the local electorate. I was led to believe that an MP was supposed to do the best thing for his constituency anyway, not necessarily what was the most popular thing.

The issue is too many MP's use their position to push through their own agenda rather than what their constituents want on a number of issues.

[Lady Elanore]

A chap that used to belong to a group of us that drank regularly in the local pub, ran for being the local MP one year. He was an educated man (a land Barrister) and he had read all the legal and advisory bumf that goes with being an MP. I remember he said at the time, that an MP was supposed to do the right thing, not what the electorate wanted. He was very unequivocal on the point too. Of course the trouble is, even if he though he was doing the right thing, it was still what he himself considered to be the right thing. That's why I think as a species, we always think the grass is always greener. Can't think of a better way to run the country overall though. It's why I get a little annoyed at so many people rubbishing things like our government when they have no better solution to offer.

[lol-lol]

Nissan invested £100,000,000 in the Sunderland plant to build the new Juke model. Nissan claim this will guarantee the plant to at least 2020. Toyota say they will remain at Derby even if the UK exists the EU.

 

£100M is small money compared to the £1B JLR and putting in to the Slovakia plant 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-10/jaguar-land-rover-clinches-deal-with-slovakia-on-new-factory

 

One would expect the 3 Japanese companies Honda, Nissan, Toyota to keep operating the UK plants but it is the new major lines that they will think hard on whether to put in the UK or in the mainland EU when 85% of the plants production is to mainland Europe and it could be facing 10% import duty.  Ford is less expose as engines only get levied with a customs duty of 4.2%.

 

Guarantees are near worthless as although the Japanese firms, like Honda, did not fully lay off stack and just put them on short time working on part pay hoping things changed during the 2008 recession.  Let us hope it all work out..

 

If we make it we can all sit back and laugh.

But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,

Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.

Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying

Between the iron gates of fate

The seeds of time were sown

And watered by the deeds of those

Who know and who are known.

Knowledge is a deadly friend

If no one sets the rules.

The fate of all mankind I see

Is in the hands of fools.

The wall on which the prophets wrote

Is cracking at the seams.

Upon the instruments of death

The sunlight brightly gleams.

When every man is torn apart

With nightmares and with dreams,

Will no one lay the laurel wreath

When silence drowns the screams.

Confusion will be my epitaph.

As I crawl a cracked and broken path

If we make it we can all sit back and laugh.

But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,

 

Epitaph-King Crimson

Edited 5 February, 2016 by lol-lol

[domhnall]

Of course there aren't any MSPs doing similar, not even an SNP MSP.

Just the Westminster and Europe lot apparently.

Well the system here was set up from the start with full transparency. The only scandal to date was a former tory leader who was hounded from office for a few £5 taxi fares and a Labour first minister who was silly about sub letting of his office. So yeah the Scottish system is actually pretty easy to police. Compare with Westminster where it was a bitter fight to get expenses details revealed. The transparency was fought by a Scottish MP the speaker Mr Martin (so it's not a Scottish v English issue).

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[domhnall]

I'm pro EU, although I wish we had more powers to run our own country the way we see fit.

We're "better together"

Same arguments being deployed by the Euro sceptics now as they objected to in 2014. Hilarious

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[domhnall]

Each party is pro, but seems to have given their MP's free reign to side which ever campaign they wish.

Nope. The two biggest parties but not the third biggest. They're solidly pro EU

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[domhnall]

Bizarrely just saw the pm speaking in Poland saying we want to integrate our two economies more closely. I thought part of his "deal" was the right to nit have closer integration???

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[vRSgone]

I have to say I'm curious. It's ^^^ a phrase you often her in most walks of life, but what does it actually mean. If the Government was truly lining it's pockets from the UK, then it would have hundreds of millions (or more) of surplus money sloshing around. As I don't see MPs flying around on their own personal hover jets, where do you mean by 'lining their pockets'. As a person who does not believe in conspiracy theories, it doesn't add up to me

 

If anybody still doubts the integrity of the majority of our MP's, then you may wish to consider the following composite photograph:-

 

 

Speaks for itself doesn't it? Shows where their intentions & priorities really lie, doesn't?

[gadgetman]

Unfortunately there's no way to verify the images of parliament in that picture above.

There are so many inaccurate pictures shared by campaigners which aren't what they claim to be. Especially on social media.

[vRSgone]

Unfortunately there's no way to verify the images of parliament in that picture above.

There are so many inaccurate pictures shared by campaigners which aren't what they claim to be. Especially on social media.

 

I believe they are "screen grabs" from the BBC Parliament programme; if that is so how could they be fake?

[moley]

The problem with issues like this referendum are that is a lack of accurate information , Mis information, scaremongering and a hell of a lot of guesswork from both camps.

If we leave the EU the UK will survive, somethings will get better, somethings will stay as they are somethings will get worse.

If we remain in the EU the UK will survive, somethings will get better, somethings will stay as they are somethings will get worse.

[moley]

LOL.

You will next accuse me of bringing Scotland into this next.  Deja Vu!

All i will say is that 'Better Together' and the Unionists were telling all that if Scotland was Independent it would be out of NATO for 'long time mister'

Out of EU was going to mean out of NATO because an Independent Scotland would be Nuclear Free,

(But then that was one Political Party saying that, the Government at that time, Governments can change, 

they can even be Labour and Anti Nuclear and Pro Europe.)

So the Unionists said, Not in EU, Not in NATO,  No protection, No Nuclear Automatically Not in NATO.

Forgetting the Big Populated and Wealthy Germany has no Nuclear Capability.

Never a mention of if David Cameron ended up with the UK out of the EU then the UK would be out of NATO.

Not quite the same situation.

The UK is a member of NATO and the EU, if Scotland had left the UK it would have had to join the EU and NATO. Don't think it would have a problem joining NATO, but some EU countries would not be so keen as some of them have issues with parts of their countries that want to break away.

The UK was a founder member of NATO in 1949. Membership to the EU (common market, EEC) was 1973. Leaving the EU doesn't affect it's NATO membership.

[domhnall]

I believe they are "screen grabs" from the BBC Parliament programme; if that is so how could they be fake?

 

they're not fake but how do you know what they're debating. Those ones did the rounds ages ago and were fact checked and found to be misleading

[domhnall]

Not quite the same situation.

The UK is a member of NATO and the EU, if Scotland had left the UK it would have had to join the EU and NATO. Don't think it would have a problem joining NATO, but some EU countries would not be so keen as some of them have issues with parts of their countries that want to break away.

The UK was a founder member of NATO in 1949. Membership to the EU (common market, EEC) was 1973. Leaving the EU doesn't affect it's NATO membership.

 

one of the big stories that dominated the referendum in 2014 was that a yes vote would mean being out of the EU overnight (Greenland took 8 years to get out which suggestes no state can get out overnight), and that a No vote would guarantee that Scotland would remain in the EU.

 

Now it looks rather like that may unravel. The polls out in the last couple of days show support for EU membership growing in Scotland while in the UK as a whole the leave camp now have a 15% lead. Interesting times

[moley]

Now it looks rather like that may unravel. The polls out in the last couple of days show support for EU membership growing in Scotland while in the UK as a whole the leave camp now have a 15% lead. Interesting times

..but do we trust opinion polls, especially after the last general election.  :think:

[gadgetman]

they're not fake but how do you know what they're debating. Those ones did the rounds ages ago and were fact checked and found to be misleading

This wad what I was getting at.

As far as I'm aware debates on Afghanistan were full.

[domhnall]

..but do we trust opinion polls, especially after the last general election. :think:

Here the polls pretty much got the election spot on. It was only down south they were wide of the mark

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[Llanigraham]

they're not fake but how do you know what they're debating. Those ones did the rounds ages ago and were fact checked and found to be misleading

 

There is also the fact that a lot of the work in Parliament is not conducted in the Chamber, but in the Committee Rooms, so the Chamber can often be quite empty.

[Lady Elanore]

I'd also like to know what time the pictures were taken at.

 

Actually it should be remembered, not al MPs were in favour of a pay rise or a rise in expenses.

Edited 7 February, 2016 by Lady Elanore