Third attempt at posting this, I am new! I bought a second car for spares. It's in too good condition to break though. Body is solid, it's got M.O.T.,70,000 on the clock.

I do need some advice though.

It's obviously boiled over previously, it's got orange staining on the header tank. Smokes,a bit white I think.

I changed the oil and all looked well. It started ticking over and the oil light went off.

Then I went to set the tappets, I found huge amounts of "coal" in the rocker box, which I cleaned out.

I started it up and the erratic tick over came back and within 2 minutes the oil light came back on.

Compression test shows no huge differences between cylinders.

Any advice would be really welcome. Pod

What compression values did you get on each cylinder?
The only problem I can think of would be a head gasket failure around the oil passage that feeds the rockers.
See this topic

Edited 4 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

That sounds possible.

Reading from the timing chain end of the engine...in p.s.i.,

No1 180 dry 200 wet

No2 180 dry 200 wet

No3 165 dry 200 wet

No4 170 dry 200 wet

What do you make of the carbon in the rocker box? I must've taken over 200 grams out. It lined the pushrod tubes.

P.S. it's a 2000 1.3 with 70,000 miles on it.

Since you've found evidence of oil in the cooling system, I'd say the following happened:

• at one point the HG failed arround that oil passage I've mentioned previously
• the rockers started to suffer from oil starvation and overheat
• the extra heat cooked the oil trapped or slightly seeping in the rocker box up to the point the oil became charcoal
• the rockers acted like little crushers and produced carbon powder

Of course for that to happen major negligence had to occur.

Edited 4 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

Thank Ricardo.

If I take off the sump, clean it, change the head gasket, check the valve seals and change the oil again, how would you rate my chances of a good result?

Don't forget flushing the cooling system with some special cleaning solution.

 

I'd be worried about the clearance of the rockers. The lack of lubrication might have had a serious impact on them. You don't want too much clearance, otherwise the oil pressure will drop too much. The good news is 1.3 Felicia engines are quite tough. It all depends on how many miles the engine had been abused after the HG failure.

 

I'll be able to tell you more after you remove the cylinder head and put some clear, high-res photos online. Do you see oil in the expansion tank after a drive?

Edited 4 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

Thanks again. I haven't managed to work out how to load photos from the mobile site. Any idea how I would do that?

I haven't managed to work out how to load photos from the mobile site. Any idea how I would do that?

(sigh...) I've asked the forum admin to post a pinned topic about that in each section and subsection. No luck so far. So I guess I'll have to do a video myself about that...

 

The steps are:

• create a free account on a hosting server for photos (I recommend http://imgur.com/)
• once you logged in to your account, you can start uploading photos from you PC.

1. If you plan uploading just a few photos (2-3), upload them in the root folder of your account. To do that, click on "upload images" on top of the page then click "browse your computer". A window will popup, go to your PC folder, select all photos you want to upload, click "Open". Once the upload process is finished, you'll see your photos as thumbnails in the root folder of your account. If you click on a thumbnail, the large photo opens in a window and on the right you will see "Direct Link (email & IM)". That is what you needed. Copy that link. Close the window. Now go to your message in Briskoda forum, click inside where you want to insert the photo then click on the icon looking like a frame (Image tooltip) on the menu above your message, A window will popup asking for the link of the photo. Paste the link you copied previously. Click OK. Done. Repeat for next photo.
2. If you want to upload quickly many photos, first create an album in your imgur account then upload all photos inside that album like I explained at point 1. But instead of linking each photo, you will be given the public link to your album. Now go to your message in Briskoda forum, click inside where you want to insert the link to your album then click on the icon looking like a chain (Link tooltip) on the menu above your message, A window will popup asking for the link of the album. Paste the link copied previously. Click OK. Done.

(phew...) Hope this helps. I'm tired. Went to sleep.

Edited 5 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

Is there a mobile app for Briskoda? Most forums these days have a camera/gallery icon on the message bar.

The way the technology is moving, it seems a must. Because this site is valuable and should last.

Just sounds like a very neglected example to be honest. Brown staining in the header bottle is likely from having plain water in the cooling system.

The crap in the rocker cover is what happens when the oil isn't changed for years and I suspect the oil pickup pipe is pretty much blocked with the same.

To be honest you will struggle to make it good again if it has got that bad even with using flush etc it will keep breaking down the carbon deposits and blocking the filter and pickup pipe.

If the body is tidy and it's worth it to you I would just find a good low mileage engine to drop in.

I don't think the headgasket could ever get bad enough to stop the flow of oil to the rockers Ricardo as it would have to put all the oil that would normally be pumped to the head straight into the cooling system.. not going to happen in reality as it would sieze within minutes. Just neglect by the sounds of it but you could spend far too much money trying to rebuild it.

I don't think the headgasket could ever get bad enough to stop the flow of oil to the rockers Ricardo as it would have to put all the oil that would normally be pumped to the head straight into the cooling system..

While I agree with you the residues in the expansion tank could be in fact rust, one of the head gasket possible failures is a crack between the oil passage and the hole for cylinder #4 exhaust pushrod. In other words, a bypass.

 

not going to happen in reality as it would sieze within minutes.

A hasty conclusion. I have photo (see below) of the rocker arms after 400 km(!) with zero lubrication after the head gasket was installed upside down by mistake... If you want, I can put you in contact with the guy. He lives in UK and he is a member of Briskoda. We had extensive communication on PM. He had to redo the head gasket job and the engine runs perfectly fine now.

 

Pod56,

Sadly I saw a few Felicias totally neglected like felicia16v has mentioned and he may have a good point on his assessment. Each time the drivers were women Totally oblivious and indolent of car maintenance jobs, they stupidly destroyed good engines and guess who payed for the whole mess...

 

I totally agree with your observation about a mobile application for Briskoda members. The forum is quite sad without photos. Not to mention a photo = 1,000 words when it comes to diagnose various problems.

I was thinking more along the lines that if it was a bad enough oil leak to stop the oil actually getting to the rockers it would soon empty the sump into the coolant. Brown staining doesn't sound doesn't like oil in the header tank more like rust. I've seen one that had the gasket fitted wrong so the oil way was blanked and it had done 900 or so miles like it but the rockers and shaft were worn beyond repair.

It's neglect basically just old oil getting cooked on to everything and not being changed for a lot of miles.. bet the timing chain is properly knackered by now too.

If you google (image) the words "engine black death" I think you'll see some pictures that may be similar to what you've observed. I'd agree with felicia16v on the likely causation.

Well, I went ahead and ordered the head gasket set, so we will see! I'm reluctant to link my photographs to a third party site. But, if possible, I will report the process with pictures.

I'm reluctant to link my photographs to a third party site. But, if possible, I will report the process with pictures.

Why reluctant? It's about an engine, not foreplay photos

You can attach maximum 2 MB of photos in total, hosted by Briskoda. I know, a 2 MB quota is very small. But a JPG photo, 1600 x 1200 pixels, 96 dpi, 80% compression has 0.2 MB in size. So you can attach up to 10 photos.

 

As for the repair job, as I said, it is all about how worn the lower end of the engine is. By the way, when you changed the oil, how much oil got out? Was it sludge?

As you've reassured me I will use a photo hosting site, so I can upload.

The old oil was very black. The car drove 60 miles on delivery run, with oil light on intermittently. Car ran very smooth after oil, filter, New plugs, temperature sensor and a clean air filter.

Problems returned after running it in the garden for 30 minutes x 5 times maybe.

I'm hopeful.

I find very important at this stage to measure the oil pressure with a reliable manometer mounted in place of the oil pressure switch. The oil pressure is the indicator of success or fail. I am very curious about this repair job.

 

The oil pressure must be at least 3.8 bar at engine speed of 3000 rpm and oil temperature of 80 °C. If engine is revved higher, the oil pressure must not exceed 5.8 bar.

I did swap the oil pressure sensor with the one on my other fully operative Felicia, there seems to be no fault on the sensor.

A good thorough clean and inspection will be the priority.

I was not talking about the possibility of having a faulty oil pressure switch. But it's OK you ruled out that possibility. By the way, Felicia does not have an oil pressure sensor, but a simple pressure switch that closes when the pressure drops below 0.4 - 0.6 bar. It would have been nice to have an oil pressure sensor and a gauge on board from factory...

 

I was talking about checking the oil pressure with a proper oil manometer with gauge mounted temporarily in place of the oil pressure switch. If the HG replace job is a success but you measure low oil pressure... that's very bad. Repairing the lower end of the engine is not worth it.

Question , is 3.8 bar equivalent of c56 p.s.i.? I don't know if I've got a gauge that measures in atmospheres.

Download this free software, Converber. I use it all the time. It is a gem, the mother of all units conversion.

I've just taken the car for a 10minute drive and it drives like a new car. To 're-cap before I start stripping it, oil light comes on after 2 minutes of running. It doesn't tick over as happily when oil light is on. When revved, white smoke comes out of the exhaust.

My main question is, can the oil-way in the block/head loose enough pressure for the oil light to come on? The oil looks ok, but I will test it on a hot plate and blotting paper.

I recommend cleaning thoroughly the oil sump, suction bell and sieve, rocker arms, shaft, then flushing the lubrication circuit with a special solution. It is probably a case of oil starvation from blocked passages.

 

You didn't tell us anything about the history of the car, other than mileage. What was it used for? What kind of driving from previous owners? What kind of maintenance and engine repairs?

 

Other than that, you need to gather more data instead of guessing. Anything is possible at this stage. So  I advise you to do a longer, harder driving test (50-100 km) to see if:

• the coolant level drops
• the coolant and/or oil get contaminated
• the oil level drops or rises
• the engine overheats at high speed
• there are strange noises at full load (knocking, rattling, creaking, etc.)

Take all necessary precautions for the trip. Try to make a video with your driving test.

 

By "It doesn't tick over as happily" I presume you mean rough idle or misfire, right?

Edited 7 February, 201610 yr by RicardoM

The oil light coming on after a couple of minutes of engine warming is probably related to the decrease in viscosity of the oil as it warms up. When cold it's thick, and easy to generate lots of pressure even if various bearings might be a bit worn. As it gets hotter and runnier, the pressure developed decreases at any given rpm, compared to when cold.

 

As ever, Ricardo's and felicia16v's suggestions are wise.  Get that sump off asap and clean the pick-up gauze, that is almost certainly required, urgently.

Ok. It starts and runs evenly, like a new car. Engine ran fine after oil change for 30 miles and ticked over. After rocker box off, the oil light problem returned as did lumpy tick over.

The car belonged to a woman in London. I bought it off a dealer in Peterborough for parts. I thought the cylinder head gasket had gone, so I got it CHEAP.

I'm going to do the gasket in the next couple of days, weather permitting.

I felt out the head bolts today. The heads of the bolts seem to flex a mm or two without "breaking". Then return to start podium. Is that normal? They feel like they want to snap rather than turn. Is there a technique I can use to crack them without snapping the bolts?