GTI Clubsport after all...

[vrskeith]

Yes, i meant 'not impaired cornering performance' compared to the FWD offerings from the Volkswagen Group.

As to the New Focus RS, be sure to let us hear from you once they get them to customers and you get a test drive with one.

(i take it as good as they are, they still need the right trousers on for the weather when driven on the road... tyres that is.)

Hope the RS'quality issues don't centre around the RDU.

May be will hear sometime from Ford or GKN or a Journo as to the Quality issues that stopped production and hence deliveries.

Edited 2 April, 2016 by vrskeith

[old newbie2]

Doh, my bad, mixed up buyers, I though newbie69 was considering s Octavia Taxi type VWG car

Sorry.

I am driving a (posh)  taxi!  My previous Skoda, '07 Black Magic Octy vRS even looked like a grubby minicab, which was half the fun............

 

The current Octy is quite bland, is too big to be considered as a hatchback (notchback perhaps?) but it's more suitable for a fat old geezer than

any of today's small hot hatches.

 

I know that the stock vRS 230 isn't the ultimate road-burner, but it's quick enough to be enjoyable, even when loaded with holiday luggage. 

SWMBO has been out on her own in the Superb today, & she's wondering why I'm even contemplating replacing it, as am  I..... 

 

The Golf is big enough for us, as was the S3 driven earlier today albeit is a bit cramped, has a typical non VAG,  Audi interior & with has as much as road noise from  the back as the Golf R  Estate driven later in the day, (not by me).

As for the shortcomings of the Haldex system, all we would need  is the ability to accelerate quickly without upsetting the front axle.

If a Golf R , an S3 or even a Superb 280 drives as a FWD car for most of the time, that's cool with us,  the Haldex would probably keep us alive if we did something stupid.........

 

Horses & Courses, as they say.

 

DC

 

I can promise that we wouldn't drive on a track or indulge in street-racing, but would be happy in a car that can munch the miles, on back-roads & motorways.

[Lady Elanore]

Which is what I meant. The kind of AWD offered by VAG, and any Haldex based AWD in that matter is only good for providing traction on slippery roads, corner exits and putting 300+ bhp down without wheelspin. But that's as far as it goes. It does not help sport/race driving around corners as proper AWD systems with a center diff that allows for rotational differences between fronts and rears do. When you go fast around a corner, rears will engage with, at most, the same rotational speed as the fronts (50:50 ratio) which is un-natural, hence unless you back off the throttle you are only ending deeper into the ditch. Don't want to turn this into a Haldex discussion but for those interested there are many detailed threads about how the whole system works and why it does not offer the same benefits as Torsen Quattro or AWD systems with a center diff. In fact, under these conditions (probably/hopefully only met on a track), it will be worse than a FWD with a proper LSD or even an E-VAQ (e-diff) equipped vehicle which will pull you towards the inside of the corner. That was my point and the comparison I made.

My previous Audi A4 Quattro had a 'Sports Diff' which does not only some clever torque vectoring magic, but also changes the speed of the outer wheel to help turn into the corner. The clever thing was that it also worked when you were on a trailing throttle (Disclaimer: ok it wouldn't be a throttle as the car was a 3.0tdi jobbie thing :p). But VAG do/did make full time 4x4 and had some clever tech to boot. The down side was although the Sports Diff cost £500 to buy as a new option, it should have cost £7,000 to fix when I broke it, at least if it hadn't been under warranty 

[newbie69]

My previous Audi A4 Quattro had a 'Sports Diff' which does not only some clever torque vectoring magic, but also changes the speed of the outer wheel to help turn into the corner. The clever thing was that it also worked when you were on a trailing throttle (Disclaimer: ok it wouldn't be a throttle as the car was a 3.0tdi jobbie thing :p). But VAG do/did make full time 4x4 and had some clever tech to boot. The down side was although the Sports Diff cost £500 to buy as a new option, it should have cost £7,000 to fix when I broke it, at least if it hadn't been under warranty 

 

Probably because A4 and above all got the "proper" Torsen Quattro instead of the Haldex version.

 

Back on topic, am I silly to come to a conclusion that there are not any perfect cars for sub 40K eur (30K GBP) out there? I don't know how, but I have a few niggles about every single car I have considered. For years I had thought that this amount of money would be able to buy me something close to well not a "dream" but a pretty much perfect car, but now that the time has come I just can't find something that ticks all my boxes...

Edited 2 April, 2016 by newbie69

[Lady Elanore]

Probably because A4 and above all got the "proper" Torsen Quattro instead of the Haldex version.

 

 

I believe the new 'improved' A4 quattro, has gone over to the dark side :(

[kenny]

How many people can tell difference in normal, legal road driving?

[Ootohere]

I have seen a fair number of Road Testers and Journalist reviewers collecting cars to head of into the Scottish 'Best Driving Roads', and also being handed the keys to head out for a few laps.

Seldom do i hear, 'what are those tyres set at', or any of them whip out a tyre pressure gauge and check the 4 tyres before booting it off.

Maybe they go to a filling station and check there, 

but then pigs might fly, most often they want to know if the tank is full and some might ask if it has super unleaded in.

Edited 3 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Lady Elanore]

How many people can tell difference in normal, legal road driving?

you can definitely tell if the car has the rear sports diff. It makes a very nice improvement to the cars handling

[Ootohere]

If you read the Yeti Section on this forum you will see members asking how to check if the Haldex is working and if they have 4x4 or not.

There must be many that have non functioning systems that never notice or know what wheels are driven when and if a system works or not, 

as it is on dry UK roads at NSL the systems to provide drive to front and rear wheels sheldom will be required.

[kenny]

I agree on sports diff but was meaning standard systems. If keeping to legal road driving it is not obvious what is haldex or torsen. That was my only point

[999pooch]

I agree on sports diff but was meaning standard systems. If keeping to legal road driving it is not obvious what is haldex or torsen. That was my only point

My last car was S4 and Torsen. Current car is Golf R and Haldex. I noticed very quickly the subtle differences between the two.

You don't need to push too hard to realise which wheels the two different systems are biased towards. The Haldex is very good in the latest version, but still has a very slight shuffle of power when traction is lost. Torsen is silky smooth

That said, the weight saving of Haldex is very welcome

Edited 4 April, 2016 by 999pooch

[kenny]

Yea I do agree, I had 3 torsen quattros before this S3. My point is they are subtle and I doubt are really make or break to most. Some yes but most won't be fussed

[999pooch]

Yea I do agree, I had 3 torsen quattros before this S3. My point is they are subtle and I doubt are really make or break to most. Some yes but most won't be fussed

Agree they are subtle, and was surprised how good the latest Haldex was.

Given a straight choice would probably choose Torsen. However it wasn't enough to prevent me getting a Haldex equipped Golf R

[kenny]

Yip fully agree with that mate

[cheezemonkhai]

And just as I was about to head to a SEAT dealership for the 2nd time lately to seriously ask about a Cupra it hit me. Don't do the same mistake like last time, think depreciation... Ok, so I thought what I like and decided I had to head towards BMW and Audi. Of course this meant I'd have to stretch the budget by a good 25% initially, but according to my calculations around half of that stretch will be gained back within 3-5 years time, according to the Swedish car market characteristics. Which all of a sudden made some more premium cars not that bad an idea.

 

Right, so given that I was a after a saloon (that was one thing I didn't quite like about the Leon and I can't ever imagine myself inside an estate), as much as I'd love a 6pot, budget dictates it had to be at most a 330i. My stage 2 Fabia vRS has spoiled me in terms of what I consider acceptable performance I'm afraid. I admit I am not thrilled with the 3-series looks looks too polite and ordinary. The M-Sport pack adds a few sport touches but it basically remains a 3 series. Not bad at all but then again not special either. Then the interior is very well put together but its seems a bit dated to me and feels like I'm seeing the same thing for years. Also, the 252hp on a ~1.5ton car mean it's quick but nothing shocking. In fact, I'm sure it will feel slower than the Fabia, official figures and times indicate so at least. In Estoril blue, and with the right wheels is as good as it can get aesthetically for me but as I said, it's not a car that I would normally look at twice, simply because there's just so many 3-series out there. I think the problem with this car is that looks-wise it's either the civilized look of the entire 3 series all the way from the 318 to the 340 OR the extravagant, lovely M3 which only few can afford (and live with). So there's a gap really if you want something more special but can't afford to splash the cash for an M3.

 

 

 

 

 

I then headed to the Audi dealership. To be honest I had in mind the S4 but being so new it still is not on sale and there's no official price yet, and for such a new car it will definitely be above budget. I always liked the S3 look, I think Audi have nailed it in the way they deliver a design that feels special, sporty and subtle at the same time, but didn't want to get another hatch-back. No idea the S3 came as a saloon also. Well I found out at the dealership when I saw a S3 saloon demo and immediately fell in love with it. I think the back actually looks much better than the new S4 sedan which can get confused for a Passat easily and while in general it doesn't scream at all, there's one thing that makes it look like it really means business, the quad exhaust tips. I also liked the interior very much. Feels as solid and premium as the BMW but in my eyes a much fresher and attractive design. And finally, the mk3 2.0 TFSI and DSG6 is a drivetrain that I love, like in the Cupra. A simple stage 1 map takes those to 360-370 and adds huge torque but now paired to the quattro system makes the car proper fast (4.9" for 0-100 stock) and always able to put any extra power down. The 330 as standard doesn't even come close and I feel the F30 tuning is uncharted waters. Much less options and potential is not that great from what I read.

 

 

 

So why I am still undecided? Well because the offer I have for the BMW is a really good one opposed to the Audi (around 70eur less per month for a 3 year Swedish version of PCP) and I know the 330i will be a great car once inside it. But, it's hard to get that red S3 saloon out of my mind and it just gives me that "special" feeling I don't get with the 330. I actually wanted to write all that down in an effort to clear my own thoughts and in a way I have done so alrready but since it's a general car chat, I'd love others to throw their 2p (or more) as well... 

 

 

Have a really good look at the lower dash and see what you think of some of the materials.

They're good but not great.

 

Also can you live with an electronic hand brake? I hated it in the A3 saloon

[newbie69]

Have a really good look at the lower dash and see what you think of some of the materials.

They're good but not great.

 

Also can you live with an electronic hand brake? I hated it in the A3 saloon

 

That's what I said earlier. The Golf and S3 may have felt a bit better, but not 10K better, at least by my standards. That, together with the worse track performance and the smaller boot, made me head back to the original choice, the Cupra. Even more since I talked with a guy that bought one after owning a 335i and an A45 AMG who told me that, as incredible as it may sound, he's more in love with the SEAT than he ever was with either of his past cars. And he then explained how excellent it's been as both a performance car (now running 400+ bhp) and a family car.

 

I'm hating the idea of e-handbrake but everything else being good, I don't think it would make me go for another car. I didn't reject neither the R or the S3 because of it.

[lozparry]

I'm hating the idea of e-handbrake but everything else being good, I don't think it would make me go for another car. I didn't reject neither the R or the S3 because of it.

 

I was sceptical about the e-handbrake when I got my S3, however, I dont need to do handbrakes turns, but it did take a good month to get use too. tbh... I prefer it now, I have a manual S3 btw... just lift the clutch up in gear, no need to press switch unless no seat belt on and no waiting for the bite on a hill start. That is without hill control option too.

[Lady Elanore]

If it;'s like the e brake on the B8 A4 then I found it to be pretty good. It's not like you can handbrake turn a full time 4x4 It worked brilliantly with the footbrake as a hill holder and release beautifully as you brought the clutch up. My C350  e-brake thingie was a total pain though. not helped by Mercs foot operated parking brake  

[Ootohere]

Edited 6 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[vrskeith]

Upgrades announced for the S3 family.

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/a3/17603/audi-s3-gets-power-boost-new-styling-and-new-tech

[kenny]

http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/blog/pistonheads--hypocrisy-matters-ph-blog/34037

[newbie69]

http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/blog/pistonheads--hypocrisy-matters-ph-blog/34037

 

I had fun reading that as I've only spoken with a few honest S3 owners over the last weeks. So that pistonheads guy bought an S3 and is obviously so excited about it to the point he is convinced everybody's part of a conspiracy or preoccupied against his car compaired to the Golf. People tend to forget a "common MQB platform" is just that: a platform on which you can build a car with so many different ways and end up with so many different cars. Thinking that two MQB cars with the same engine and gearbox must be "mechanically identical" is anything but true. This is actually what I believed as well but then I wondered how come the R get a lot of praise whereas the S3 is being criticised? And then I found out the R uses different springs, dampers, steering rack and is better set-up (different alignment and suspension settings) for dynamic driving than the S3 which is built with cruise/comfort in mind. And there you have it. One feels disconnected and vague  and is slower around any track and the other one gives more confidence and info on what it's doing, plus it's doing it more efficiently (still not as good as a Cupra though   ). Damn, just as I was about to believe all journalists around the world are part of the same conspiracy to bury the Audi...

 

It's fine to love the car you drive (speaking about that Dan at PH) but if that is the case, why the need to convince everyone your car's weaknesses are not existing? Between the three, by summing up all the reviews about them, the S3 is probably the best looking car (although subjective but I think majority would agree), the Golf is the best all-rounder and the Cupra the one with the better dynamics and therefore most efficient on track. You prioritise and make your choice but saying "no, they're all the same because the are based on the MQB platform and have the same engine and gearbox" shows that you know not more than the typical salesman (who hardly ever knows anything about the car he is selling).

 

PS. "The Audi sounds more turbocharged than any other EA888"  :think:  Somebody tell that guy he is actually listening to the wretched Soundaktor so the only difference is whatever mp3 they are playing through it. By the way, one of the first things I would change on any of those cars. Listened to it on the R during the test-drive and hated it. I think Forza had far better and more realistic engine soundtracks...

Edited 7 April, 2016 by newbie69

[kenny]

Don't disagree at all. As an S3 owner I also found the review surprising and funny at points

The Golfis just better set up for fast driving end of. That said it hughtlughts everyone likes different things and not one setup is what all buyers want

I'm a golf fan and have been since my mk2 but I bought the s3 there a reasons for everyone's purchase

Ps the sound is via vibrating unit and not via mp3 playing turbo noise?

Edited 8 April, 2016 by kenny

[newbie69]

Don't disagree at all. As an S3 owner I also found the review surprising and funny at points

The Golfis just better set up for fast driving end of. That said it hughtlughts everyone likes different things and not one setup is what all buyers want

I'm a golf fan and have been since my mk2 but I bought the s3 there a reasons for everyone's purchase

Ps the sound is via vibrating unit and not via mp3 playing turbo noise?

 

Yes, but saying "I don't have the highest of dynamic driving requirements and the S3 suits me" is a far more decent statement than "hey, it shares the same drive-train with the Golf, it's the same car!", that was my point because they clearly aren't identical on the road.

 

I was trying to find some conclusive info as to what exactly it is you are hearing through the Soundaktor. Some early reports said "pre-recorded engine noise over some specific rpm", some other ones said "amplified engine noise". Don't know what's true but don't you agree it sounds artificial? It just comes into play out of nowhere it seems and well, how can I describe it, it seems to not be triggering any of your senses other than hearing, no vibration, no.. life, just sound! People that have it disabled said they much preferred the pure engine noise without it so I'd definitely try it without it.

[kenny]

The noise thing is such a waste of time. I prefer no added effect, it's not turbo related

Cars are personal things and what makes it good for one makes it bad for another