Chip tuning

[majkelo]

Any one done chip tuning?

I have superb 2.0tdi 2014 facelift 140bph

Any recommendations?

Is any bad points?

[majkelo]

Automatic DSG

[Wile7]

Not done so yet but tempted on my 3.6 - engine and DSG.

Won't yield as much advantage over standard as your Tdi but worth a look I reckon. Plenty of threads on here about the subject - do a search to see what you can find.

When/if you do do it, post back on here to let us know your thoughts

Dave

[numskull]

We have a Chip Express unit on out CR170. Personally, I think it's fantastic, it's so easy to fit and remove too. It's a similar price to a remap, but I see the former points as a big plus over the remap. In terms of performance, having not had a remap, I can't compare the two but all I can say is it "adequate". Well, in reality, it transforms the performance. Love it.

[chimaera]

We have a Chip Express unit on out CR170. Personally, I think it's fantastic, it's so easy to fit and remove too. It's a similar price to a remap, but I see the former points as a big plus over the remap. In terms of performance, having not had a remap, I can't compare the two but all I can say is it "adequate". Well, in reality, it transforms the performance. Love it.

Those 'tuning' boxes are generally a very bad idea. All they do (all they're able to do) is fool the ECU into turning up fuel and sometimes boost by screwing with sensor readings. The money is much better spent on a good remap from a reputable tuner.

[numskull]

Those 'tuning' boxes are generally a very bad idea. All they do (all they're able to do) is fool the ECU into turning up fuel and sometimes boost by screwing with sensor readings. The money is much better spent on a good remap from a reputable tuner.

Chip Express are a reputable business and produce a product that works very efficiently. It is effectively a hardware remap, by bypassing the existing ECU. A software remap also "turns up the fuel" and boost by "screwing with sensor readings" you put it, because oddly, you can't get greater output without greater input. I've recently driven a CD170 that's been remapped and the performance was very similar, albeit ours had better MPG figures. Anyway, each to their own; I like the convenience, and the fact I can use it in my next TDI if I wish.

[chimaera]

Chip Express are a reputable business and produce a product that works very efficiently. It is effectively a hardware remap, by bypassing the existing ECU. A software remap also "turns up the fuel" and boost by "screwing with sensor readings" you put it, because oddly, you can't get greater output without greater input. I've recently driven a CD170 that's been remapped and the performance was very similar, albeit ours had better MPG figures. Anyway, each to their own; I like the convenience, and the fact I can use it in my next TDI if I wish.

It doesn't bypass the ECU - it sits between it and the sensors & control hardware and modifies the data going through e.g. makes it think the outside air is 10 degrees colder or that the fuel temperature is lower, or that the accelerator pedal is at 30 % instead of 10 %. It makes the ECU use different parts of the map for purposes they weren't intended. It can also hide potentially damaging operating conditions from the ECU.

A remap changes the fuelling and boost maps (usually several of them) to change the output for a given set of conditions. The ECU gets all the sensor data and control inputs unmolested - it's now been told to send a different set of outputs for those inputs.

[Gizmo]

Tried several tuning boxes (Dragon digital, DTUK etc) and had 3 Škoda’s remapped by Shark Performance, the Shark remap was better in every way (apart from it not being transferable to another car) 

 

It will totally transform the car and even give you slightly better economy when driven sensibly. 

 

Not all remaps are the same however, my previous Superb had a Quantum Tuning remap on it when I bought it, this really spoilt the way the car drove IMO, so much so I removed it!

[Greenline3Matt]

I have had tuning boxes in the past but on my last car decided to go for a Superchips remap, I will certainly not go back to a tuning box now. When time and pennies allow I will get my Greenline remapped.

[DarrellGB]

I have had tuning boxes in the past but on my last car decided to go for a Superchips remap, I will certainly not go back to a tuning box now. When time and pennies allow I will get my Greenline remapped.

+1 Remap wins everytime, I've had arguably one of the best tuning box on the market from DTUK, it was great but a remap transformed the driving characteristics of the car, big improvement. 

 

Do some research on here and online to find a good tuner near you, a Shark Performance Map for example will change your car from 140 to 180/185bhp and torque up from 320 to 440Nm. Plus it can be mapped via your OBD port so no need to remove the ecu from the car and very easy to switch back, you can even buy one of their STS Systems which allow you to switch between standard and mapped at anytime you choose

Edited 30 March, 2016 by DarrellGB

[numskull]

It doesn't bypass the ECU - it sits between it and the sensors & control hardware and modifies the data going through e.g. makes it think the outside air is 10 degrees colder or that the fuel temperature is lower, or that the accelerator pedal is at 30 % instead of 10 %. It makes the ECU use different parts of the map for purposes they weren't intended. It can also hide potentially damaging operating conditions from the ECU.

A remap changes the fuelling and boost maps (usually several of them) to change the output for a given set of conditions. The ECU gets all the sensor data and control inputs unmolested - it's now been told to send a different set of outputs for those inputs.

I stand corrected. Nevertheless, I've searched the interwebnet before I purchased it, and again just now, and have not found any complaints or horror stories of damage being caused by chip express or other reputable sources. These are not the£15 to £100 Chinese units you get on eBay which, I agree, are pants. You have some good knowledge on these things so perhaps you can explain how the BHP and torque are increased if it just fools the the ECU into thinking it's cold or believing the accelerator is in a different position, as I don't get how that'd work? And how do you explain the improvement in MPG? Anyway, there will always be descenters and supporters of one product or another and I for one are as happy as Larry with the unit, as is my son-in-law with the one he has on his Range Rover.

[dstev2000]

Another thumbs down for tuning boxes. They are too crude compared to a remap. 

 

My 2 p's worth so feel free to ignore me and do whatever the hell you want with your own car 

 

Tuning boxes can use several methods for making the engine produce more power, the most common are: 

 

Fuel: The ECU receives data from the fuel rail pressure sensor, pretty self explanatory. The signals from this sensor are intercepted by the tuning box and usually offset downwards so the ECU gets a modified signal, essentially telling it the rail pressure is say 1600 Bar when in reality it might be 1700 Bar - for example. More pressure means more fuel per cycle = more power. 

 

Boost pressure: Pretty much the same deal. The boost pressure sensor tells the ECU what pressure the turbocharger is producing at any given moment. Once again, the signal is intercepted and modified by the tuning box to fool the ECU into thinking the boost pressure is lower than it really is. This means the ECU will modify the turbo vane angles to produce more boost. More boost = more power, provided the fuel quantity is increased accordingly. 

 

There are tons more parameters that the tuning box ignores, such as EGR quantities and DPF regeneration cycles where the fuel and boost rates are altered by the ECU: Boost pressure is raised slightly and the fuelling profile is altered for post injection to raise the temp of the cat and DPF. 

 

The biggest concern I have with the crudeness of some tuning boxes is the aforementioned DPF. The boxes that only over-fuel the engine for more power produce tons more soot than the engine in standard tune or a well designed remap. Keeping the engine on the lean side of stoichiometric combustion will keep soot levels to a minimum as they usually run with excess air anyway. Tuning boxes capitalise on the excess air by throwing more fuel in. 

 

This soot puts much more load on the DPF than the ECU is expecting. This will at best lead to more frequent and longer active regeneration cycles, at worst, blockages of the pressure sensors and such like. The upshot is more oil ash accumulation in the DPF. Yes, some people remove them but not everyone goes down this route. 

 

Back in the good old days of non DPF PD engines, tuning boxes were great fun. I know as I've used several over the years with good - if not sooty - results. 

 

On the latest CR engines with DPFs and AdBlue SCR, I wouldn't even entertain the idea. 

[dstev2000]

With regards to the perceived improvements in MPG: the fuel consumption data is based on a calculation the car makes based on injection quantities, fuel pressure, throttle position and so on. The ECU is being told it's using less fuel than it really is via the modified rail pressure signal from the tuning box. This will translate into a displayed improvement in fuel consumption on the dash. The only way to be sure is to do a before and after brim to brim calculation. 

 

When I ran tuning boxes on my PD engines, I saw a 5-10% increase in fuel consumption (brim to brim) compared to a 10% decrease via the maxi dot readout. Some of this can be attributed to a more 'exuberant' driving style, thanks to the presence of the tuning box in the first place  . 

[numskull]

Thanks dstev2000 for your informative replies. Re a remap, I'm a bit confused as to how this achieves increased performance without an increase in both fuel usage and boost pressures?

[chimaera]

Thanks dstev2000 for your informative replies. Re a remap, I'm a bit confused as to how this achieves increased performance without an increase in both fuel usage and boost pressures?

Fuel usage in a diesel is directly related to how much power you're using. If you're cruising along, the fuelling is dialed back a lot compared to full acceleration. Diesel engines run very lean most of the time unless you're using all the available power. If you run close to stoichiometric (the ideal air/fuel ratio) you start getting smoke in the exhaust.

 

One of the things to remember about the stock ECU map is that it's set up for a variety of markets with somewhat varying fuel quality, different environmental conditions, etc. Your car in England has the same map as someone else's car in Northern Sweden so it has to be able to accommodate both sets of operating conditions. A major factor that has to be accommodated in some markets is the use of winter fuel which performs at a lower level than summer fuel, and the car has to adjust its operation to cope. Even UK/IE will switch to winterised fuel around October though it won't be as extreme a change as that seen in Arctic or Alpine regions.

 

All of this leaves a bit of room for tuners to optimise things a good bit for either power or economy, or both. You can improve economy in the mid-range while getting more power when you're going for it. But if you remap your car in England and drive to Northern Sweden in the middle of winter you might find it struggling

 

As for boost pressure, this is driven by the fuel demand - the ECU is set up to deliver enough air to combust the available fuel. The engine's output is controlled by the amount of fuel delivered and the air system just has to supply enough air to match that.

 

On a petrol engine, it's controlled by the amount of air admitted to the engine through the throttle and the fuel system adds sufficient fuel to work with that amount of air.

[psycholist]

The other thing to keep in mind is that diesel engines are now designed to run a lot less efficiently than they are capable of in order to reduce emissions of NOx compounds in particular. NOx is created by high combustion temperatures breaking up the nitrogen in the air, which mean high thermodynamic efficiency (Max theoretical efficiency <= 1-Tcold/Thot, [temperatures in Kelvin], for any engine), so great fuel economy and low pollution are mutually exclusive goals, that's what all the exhaust gas recirculation and the lowered compression ratios in modern diesels are for.

 

Since emissions testing is only performed on specially prepared vehicles when they are being type approved, for consumers car testing in diesels is limited to measuring exhaust smoke (Collected by the DPF anyway), so there's no downside to remaps for consumers apart from increased insurance costs. In the case of VAG diesels, and based on the complete lack of outrage and claims for compensation from other car manufacturers, all the other manufacturers too, official emission and economy figures are fiction outside of the lab test conditions anyway.

 

If the remap moves the car to more efficient but more polluting settings then you can see an increase in power and a drop in fuel consumption but at the invisible expense of increased pollution. Economy gains can also be seen from remaps with higher low end torque that allow the engine to pull higher gears, lowering friction losses as everything except the wheels is spinning more slowly at a given speed (Though watch your DMF if you're trying to make use of this one).