There's no issue about supply in Victoria as a result of the rapid spread of PV feedin.....we've got more than enough with the endless march to ever lower consumption I would have thought.

 

 

In the UK through most of Autumn/Winter it's dark before most people get home from work hence no solar.

 

And we have times when the weather gives us virtually no wind. For weeks through last winter with a high pressure system over the UK Wind was averaging 0.5% of the UK's generation.

 

So we give big subsidies for wind and solar to meet CO2 targets yet we need enough generation capacity for when it's dark and there is no wind. So we pay massive power plants to stand idle just in case.

 

It's why the UK has some of the highest energy costs in the world. This situation is due to government policy, the government blames the high costs on greedy energy companies but as most of these big energy companies are loosing money that doesn't really make sense.

 

Lee 

Edited 8 May, 201610 yr by logiclee

Town and city networks are already experiencing problems with increased failures, this is due to harmonics being put on the system due to the increased use of LED and compact flo lighting as well as switchmode chargers. Saves money for the consumer but plays havoc on distribution networks.

That's pretty incredible to read. Especially as like many, I've moved almost everything to LED

Time to move guys .....our 90 day bills -

Our last bill was a 'credit' of $A480

The one before $A269 credit

And

The winter one (with only half of an uprated system was $A0.79 credit

Rates ($A2800) and water (~ $A1000) are all we pay for

Then there's half price fuel for the V8 (?)

))))

That's pretty incredible to read. Especially as like many, I've moved almost everything to LED

Don't worry, for every problem there's a new job created.

All it takes is a will.

This is an area I'm actively involved in and studies have already been carried out. The problem is not with UK maximum demand from power stations. Maximum demand is now actually higher at night due to the amount of solar PV in the daytime.  The UK electrical network is based on diversity. Most street infrastructure was installed many decades ago. Fast chargers range from 7kW to 16.5kW and while an electric shower may be 10.5kW it's usually on for a few minutes and the chance of many people on the street showering at the same time is minimal, that's diversity for you. On the other hand when everyone on the street has an electric vehicle and comes home from work on an evening and puts their car on charge for hours then diversity goes out of the window, You need local street infrastructure that will take sustained high load, we don't currently have that.  So we are looking at street cabling, LV distribution and in most cases upgraded HV/LV transformers and HV boards.  Town and city networks are already experiencing problems with increased failures, this is due to harmonics being put on the system due to the increased use of LED and compact flo lighting as well as switchmode chargers. Saves money for the consumer but plays havoc on distribution networks.

Lee

 

You make many valid points and I hope the various electricity boards deal and plan with these changes.  I have less faith than when the CEGB deal with these sorts of issues and the record of the current and previous Government in forward planning and execution of a proper plan to provide electricity for our homes and industry.

 

I, for one, will look at increasingly having robustness.  My company, and other companies like Tesla, are planning roll-outs of electrically storage at a local level.  Such as replacing water-radiators in homes and workplace with battery storage than can be used for supply power if the grid fails or it becomes expensive on an hourly basis and can heat as well.

 

Great to see Poundland now sell the low energy bulbs for a quid, great for the electricity bill which with the warmer winters is low less than £1k a year even for a large house. 

You make many valid points and I hope the various electricity boards deal and plan with these changes.  

 

The usual problem.

 

There's no one going to do anything without funding.

 

Lee

The Conservatives are likely to be governing the UK for the next few decades so if nothing is done then we will know who did it.

They spend plenty just making token gestures and talking about what they will do.

http://gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-pledges-bold-ambition-for-electric-cars

The Conservatives are likely to be governing the UK for the next few decades so if nothing is done then we will know who did it.

They spend plenty just making token gestures and talking about what they will do.

http://gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-pledges-bold-ambition-for-electric-cars

 

If Rhode Island are part of this it is going to happen.

 

The Con party always following their strategy of letting the markets dictate the pass of change and do little to influence, one might say govern.  

 

With road tax going to £500 per year for cars like my Jaaag I suppose there is some incentive to go out and buy a e-car our hybrid but there is so much more they can do ie reduce import duties on electric cars so Teslas are cheaper.

 

Hike and roll out more congestion changes and tolls I suppose.  Not that that always work as someone who would rather drive through the Blackwell tunnel than go over the Dartford bridge.

 

Bring back car tax for diesel cars maybe to pay for the electric charging points rollout.  I think the fast charger points are similar price to a small electric car as the need a 3 phase input to belt out the 47 Kw for these half hour or so chargers.   

You make many valid points and I hope the various electricity boards deal and plan with these changes.  I have less faith than when the CEGB deal with these sorts of issues and the record of the current and previous Government in forward planning and execution of a proper plan to provide electricity for our homes and industry.

 

I, for one, will look at increasingly having robustness.  My company, and other companies like Tesla, are planning roll-outs of electrically storage at a local level.  Such as replacing water-radiators in homes and workplace with battery storage than can be used for supply power if the grid fails or it becomes expensive on an hourly basis and can heat as well.

 

Great to see Poundland now sell the low energy bulbs for a quid, great for the electricity bill which with the warmer winters is low less than £1k a year even for a large house. 

 

Battery storage of any significant amounts of domestic/industrial power is economically mad isn't it, with today's technology? All credit to companies with good emergency power planning, but replacing gas heating with electric sounds like a step in the wrong direction? About 3 times as expensive, even with grid electric, never mind battery-stored?

Battery storage of any significant amounts of domestic/industrial power is economically mad isn't it, with today's technology? All credit to companies with good emergency power planning, but replacing gas heating with electric sounds like a step in the wrong direction? About 3 times as expensive, even with grid electric, never mind battery-stored?

 

 

The Tesla Powerwall is already working on this.  Probably needs only a few tax tweaks to make it the sensible economy choice.

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/powerwall

 

In some ways just an enhancement of Economy-7 system we had but with a better back and forth power conversion system and electronic controls.

 

Just takes a few more technological increments, a bit of marketing, some tax breaks and oil to get back to the 100$ or so levels and all this will take of and we will look at internal combustion engines, coal, gas and oil power stations as something to look at in the history book and we will say "what on Earth we we doing and thinking and should have tries harder to get rid of sooner" IMO. 

The usual problem.

 

There's no one going to do anything without funding.

 

Lee

In Oz at least I imagine many businesses will respond to tax breaks and competition for customers eg fast food outlets

Those buying will probably have a garage or carport......in any case off-street.

I have a daughter has a neighbor who trails an electric cable to her on-street Nissan Leaf!

Battery storage of any significant amounts of domestic/industrial power is economically mad isn't it, with today's technology? All credit to companies with good emergency power planning, but replacing gas heating with electric sounds like a step in the wrong direction? About 3 times as expensive, even with grid electric, never mind battery-stored?

Forty years ago we converted our oil heater to run on natural gas but now that it's such an export product we are now in a situation where ever rising gas prices plus the home PV infrastructure (and coming storage) has made electricity less expensive than gas and now new homes are going all electric.

AC and DC go well with those 1s and 0s too, after all the car is well on the way to being a wheeled computer without even a 'driver'.

Yeah but both that Tesla stuff lol-lol linked to and your 'coming storage' are ill-defined in cost terms, to put it mildly.

The Paris accord is going to put heat on the pollies and that's where it has to come from in terms of carrot and stick and the private sector is always looking for a new industry.

We always seem to muddle through.

Unfortunately, political will has only so much power over physics and chemistry. If it was just down to will, nuclear fusion would be how we generate all our electricity, I think.

And it would be distributed without losses by a grid made from superconducting cables. There are a lot of scientists and engineers who would like to be able to crack these nuts, and a lot of funding has gone into both.

It would be a brave/stupid politician who thought they could *make* these things happen by telling people what to do and pushing money at them.

 

I maintain that battery technology is not presently economic for bulk storage of electrical power at an industrial scale.  The idea of small-scale, distributed storage of small amounts in the home to time-lag PV generated power is excellent though. Private individuals are sometimes happy to invest in stuff because it's 'new' and 'eco-friendly' and so forth, even if the (short-medium term) economic argument for such investment is very sketchy, fortunately for the planet.

The end of the reciprocating car engine.

I'm sure it'll bounce back

^ Brilliant.

Toyota has plans of its own beyond the fuel cell it appears

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/0F0D34745C84D1F7CA257FAA000578FE

There's no such thing as tax breaks (In the UK at least)

 

Renewables get subsidies which are paid for by carbon tax on fossil fueled stations. As the fossil fueled stations stand idle due to the subsidised renewables being cheaper they are paid to stand idle for capacity. Where does all this money come from?

 

Yes us in higher electricity bills and higher prices for items made in the UK.

 

The Government talks as if the new Hinkley C Nuclear plant is getting tax breaks but in reality the £22 Billion cost to build it will be recovered by guaranteed higher electricity prices for decades. This will be the most expensive man made structure in the world all paid for in our energy bills and will produce as much electricity as a single coal fired station (Drax)

 

At the end of the day we either pay in higher electricity bills or higher taxes. The money comes from somewhere.

 

Lee

More graphite news

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103896_making-electric-car-battery-cell-anodes-more-sustainably

There's no such thing as tax breaks (In the UK at least)   Renewables get subsidies which are paid for by carbon tax on fossil fueled stations. As the fossil fueled stations stand idle due to the subsidised renewables being cheaper they are paid to stand idle for capacity. Where does all this money come from?   Yes us in higher electricity bills and higher prices for items made in the UK.

The Government talks as if the new Hinkley C Nuclear plant is getting tax breaks but in reality the £22 Billion cost to build it will be recovered by guaranteed higher electricity prices for decades. This will be the most expensive man made structure in the world all paid for in our energy bills and will produce as much electricity as a single coal fired station (Drax)  At the end of the day we either pay in higher electricity bills or higher taxes. The money comes from somewhere.

Lee

 

If that were so me and an "industry" of about £100 billion pounds that "optimises" businesses tax planning would not exist.

 

Electricity pays VAT at 5%, VAT was raised to 20% by the Coalition last parliament so you pay no excise duty and VAT at only 5% when adding energy to your electric car and 58p a litre excise duty and VAT at 20% on the hyrdocarbon fuel.

 

You pay VAT on buying the petrol/wiesel powered car, you also do on the electric car but get a £4.5K rebate which wipes out the VAT.

 

You get charged company car tax on car emitting CO2 of 17% plus or 7% for an electric car.

 

All hydrocarbon power stations need phasing out ASAP to be replaced by renewal power generation, hydro-pump stations and electrical storage facilities for the sake of air quality and climate change.

 

And remove the 10% import duty on Teslas so they are cheaper too I would like to see, would like to order a Model 3

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/model3

 

[snip].

 

All hydrocarbon power stations need phasing out ASAP to be replaced by renewal power generation, hydro-pump stations and electrical storage facilities for the sake of air quality and climate change.

 

[snip]

ASAP is absolutely nowhere in sight though. As isn't viable bulk electric storage.

You seem to be in the same mind-space as the beautiful Miss World contestant who calls for "world peace" as if it was something that just needs requesting for it to happen.

.

 

All hydrocarbon power stations need phasing out ASAP to be replaced by renewal power generation, hydro-pump stations and electrical storage facilities for the sake of air quality and climate change.

 

 

Renewable power generation is not reliable.

 

 

Hydro Pump stations are only good to meet short term maximum demand and are massively expensive. Last winter we had a sustained 16 days with wind producing less than 1% of the UK's need.

 

Electrical storage facilities. No financially viable current technology.

 

Currently all the subsidies the renewable sector currently gets are paid for by carbon taxes on fossil fueled plants that currently keep the UK running. Where will those subsidies come from when the Government has no carbon tax to collect?

Will there be no subsidies for renewables, will the tax payer stump up the cash or will we see the real cost of renewables in higher energy costs?

 

This is the real world financial and technical challenge that engineers discuss. We leave the emission debates to the Greenies and Policy makers.

 

Lee

That is the UK's needs, the bottom half of the UK maybe needs to get on with more Electricity Generation, 

Carbon Burning, Nuclear and Renewables because that is where the greatest demand is.

 

It is ridiculous that where much of the UK's Generation is has the highest tariffs to pay.

http://gov.scot/Topics/Business-Industry/Energy/Facts

http://renewables-map.co.uk

 

It is also ridiculous the amount of Renewables Generated Power not being used because of lack of mass storage, yet Vehicles could be getting charged from 'off peak' generated energy.

Producing Hydrogen during off power is now happening more commonly in the North of the UK, eg Scotland.

 

As for Hydro Pump Stations being massively expensive, they are but then so is a 15 Billion Train Scheme in London.

Small scale Hydro Schemes are being build all over the UK and thousands are in operation and more being built right now in Scotland or waiting approval.

http://hi-energy.org.uk/renewables/hydro-energy.htm

http://greenhighland.co.uk

Edited 12 May, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Renewable power generation is not reliable.  Hydro Pump stations are only good to meet short term maximum demand and are massively expensive. Last winter we had a sustained 16 days with wind producing less than 1% of the UK's need.  Electrical storage facilities. No financially viable current technology.  Currently all the subsidies the renewable sector currently gets are paid for by carbon taxes on fossil fueled plants that currently keep the UK running. Where will those subsidies come from when the Government has no carbon tax to collect? Will there be no subsidies for renewables, will the tax payer stump up the cash or will we see the real cost of renewables in higher energy costs?  This is the real world financial and technical challenge that engineers discuss. We leave the emission debates to the Greenies and Policy makers.

Lee

 

Renewable can be reliable for example tidal stations like the one planned for Swansea Bay and it is just the dithering by Con Government about funding it it much of the issue.

Solar and wind are not reliable although solar is collected even on dull days, and this is supplemented by Nuclear power base load, either from UK power station or French EDF station that happens at present.  Hydro-electric stoarge, again stalled by Con government dithering to add a further 100MWs to the 2 GW Dinorwig and other hyro-electric schemes.

 

Not just Greenies as these views are in mainstream parties as we have no choice but to consign hyrdocarbon usage to the history books.

 

lol-lol,

BSc Hons (2-1), not just a Greenies eco-warrior but an ex-marine engineer and science graduate in thermo-dynamics and ex Big 4 accountancy/consultant).