'Crap manual gearboxes' on occasions, more times than really is expected or should be expected in this day and age.

But then VW are just getting around to getting chain tensioners right, and go back to belts.

(as it is with Rubber, VW Group have never got the hang of Door Seals that actually seal yet.)

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.   If you can not do it right, design something else and just continue with the faults...

.

Automated Manual (DSG) different story, if they do not select reverse you have an issue, if you have faulty Clutch Packs, 

Mechatronic Control failures, brain farts or the Synthetic oil needing changed for mineral and a software update that will be another 

Quality Control issue that VW had.

World wide recalls or service campaigns, but then only on millions of boxes for thousands of failures.

ie

A proper DQ200 Service Campaign.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign

Edited 30 May, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

I could not pull out of Reverse gear on my Fabia 2017 occasionally and eventually the dealer replaced the gearbox. After replacing the gearbox, reverse gear is hard to engage sometimes and it happens very randomly. It is REALLY FRUSTRATING !!

On 04/05/2020 at 12:22, Hassan_skoda said:

I could not pull out of Reverse gear on my Fabia 2017 occasionally and eventually the dealer replaced the gearbox. After replacing the gearbox, reverse gear is hard to engage sometimes and it happens very randomly. It is REALLY FRUSTRATING !!

 

The reverse gear is not engaged by synchromesh, it's by dog engagement. It's much cheaper, lighter, more compact, simpler and more robust than a synchromesh gear.

Synchromesh is completely unneccessary for reverse, it's designed to synchronise the input shaft rpm to what is needed for the gear to engage without a crunch.

Dog engaged gears have a much higher chance of being unaligned vs gear with synchromesh engagement. If it's unaligned, it won't go in, you must lift the clutch a moment for it to go in.

Sometimes when having not let out the clutch after starting the car, can even be unable to get into 1st.

 

Try to get into the habbit of warming up the car a little first, even if only for 10-15 seconds.

If the car's been sat the oil in the engine could have all drained down to the sump (it shouldn't by design, but it can happen), it'll need a little time to get oil completely everywhere. Especially if it's cold weather.

Putting load on it immediately after starting the engine when it's been sat for so long is incredibly bad for it.

 

Saw someone else say it's because it's straight cut, it's not, all gears are constantly in mesh with each other, they just spin on the shafts on bearings until you put it in gear.

The straight cut nature of the reverse gear is what gives it the loud whine when reversing, that is all.

 

All that can be amplified by a new gearbox, tolerances are tighter, less play in selector forks etc. It'll probably settle in over some time.

9 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

The reverse gear is not engaged by synchromesh, it's by dog engagement. It's much cheaper, lighter, more compact, simpler and more robust than a synchromesh gear.

Synchromesh is completely unneccessary for reverse, it's designed to synchronise the input shaft rpm to what is needed for the gear to engage without a crunch.

Dog engaged gears have a much higher chance of being unaligned vs gear with synchromesh engagement. If it's unaligned, it won't go in, you must lift the clutch a moment for it to go in.

Sometimes when having not let out the clutch after starting the car, can even be unable to get into 1st.

 

Try to get into the habbit of warming up the car a little first, even if only for 10-15 seconds.

If the car's been sat the oil in the engine could have all drained down to the sump (it shouldn't by design, but it can happen), it'll need a little time to get oil completely everywhere. Especially if it's cold weather.

Putting load on it immediately after starting the engine when it's been sat for so long is incredibly bad for it.

 

Saw someone else say it's because it's straight cut, it's not, all gears are constantly in mesh with each other, they just spin on the shafts on bearings until you put it in gear.

The straight cut nature of the reverse gear is what gives it the loud whine when reversing, that is all.

 

All that can be amplified by a new gearbox, tolerances are tighter, less play in selector forks etc. It'll probably settle in over some time.

Thank you for the elaborate response. The previous gear box before replacement had trouble while pull the shift out reverse gear. Basically, it use to get stuck in reverse and I have to press/release the clutch a few times to get the shift out of reverse. After the replacement, It feels like something is blocking the gearshift to go all the way while engaging the reverse gear. I start to wonder now if it was really gearbox internal problem or gearshift.  The dealer might have diagnosed the problem. I really don't know. Please see the two videos (before and after replacement) I have provided to the dealer am attaching a video for you to see. What are you thought after looking at the videos?

33 minutes ago, Hassan_skoda said:

Thank you for the elaborate response. The previous gear box before replacement had trouble while pull the shift out reverse gear. Basically, it use to get stuck in reverse and I have to press/release the clutch a few times to get the shift out of reverse. After the replacement, It feels like something is blocking the gearshift to go all the way while engaging the reverse gear. I start to wonder now if it was really gearbox internal problem or gearshift.  The dealer might have diagnosed the problem. I really don't know. Please see the two videos (before and after replacement) I have provided to the dealer am attaching a video for you to see. What are you thought after looking at the videos?

The first is just the dog engagement being misaligned and the input shaft not spinning to let it align, if you let in the clutch for a moment to spin the input shaft up, the dog gears can align and it will shift in, if it doesn't after making it spin then there is an issue - it would also make a horrible noise if it was spinning but not engaging!

As for the second..

 

The gearstick has a plastic tab which prevents you going into reverse unless you push down, once in gear you let go and that spring is pushing the tab up against the housing. It's not much but it will cause a little extra friction. Pushing the stick down (like you would to put it in reverse) as you take it out of gear, avoids that.

 

The shifter mechanism on the gearbox is basically a big pin with two cables attached to it. Using levers, moving the gearstick left-right moves this big pin up/down between positions. Moving the gearstick back-forth rotates the pin clockwise or counter-clockwise.

 

The shifting mechanism has springs that hold it by default in central position, which is between the 3/4th gears, with any of the forward gears, those springs are only stretched/compressed by 1 position. However when you select reverse (2 positions away from center), the horizontal springs are stretched/compressed further, and because of how springs work, they push back harder to try to get back center.

 

Generally the big pin can only do one thing at a time, either go up and down, or rotate cw/ccw. The springs are constantly trying to push it up/down back to center, normally when in forward gears, because the spring is less compressed, it can still do this fine, but when in reverse, the springs put more force into trying to make it move in two ways at once, so it binds up.

 

Other manufacturers with 5speed boxes where reverse is where 6th gear would be, does not have this issue because of how the springs are only compressed the same as the rest of the gears. They also seem to have weaker springs too. Being tight and firm has its positives, but also its downsides.

 

At first i had sometimes had a lot of trouble getting out of reverse, i realised i was pulling it back toward center also, putting even more force into making the pin do two things at once. Usually pushing it back to reverse, giving it a wiggle then pulling it out sorted that and it came out easy. I changed my habbit to following the pattern i used to put it in reverse, as well as pushing the gear stick down to avoid wear on the plastic tab, and have since not had any issues taking it out of reverse. Only on occasion do i have trouble putting it in reverse. Quickly putting it in 1st or tickling the clutch for a moment allows it to go in every time.

 

If there's still issues outside of that, then it's a dealership problem. Something's getting stuck where it shouldn't be. I think it's most likely just the inherent design flaws associated with having reverse so far off-center.

22 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

The first is just the dog engagement being misaligned and the input shaft not spinning to let it align, if you let in the clutch for a moment to spin the input shaft up, the dog gears can align and it will shift in, if it doesn't after making it spin then there is an issue - it would also make a horrible noise if it was spinning but not engaging!

As for the second..

 

The gearstick has a plastic tab which prevents you going into reverse unless you push down, once in gear you let go and that spring is pushing the tab up against the housing. It's not much but it will cause a little extra friction. Pushing the stick down (like you would to put it in reverse) as you take it out of gear, avoids that.

 

The shifter mechanism on the gearbox is basically a big pin with two cables attached to it. Using levers, moving the gearstick left-right moves this big pin up/down between positions. Moving the gearstick back-forth rotates the pin clockwise or counter-clockwise.

 

The shifting mechanism has springs that hold it by default in central position, which is between the 3/4th gears, with any of the forward gears, those springs are only stretched/compressed by 1 position. However when you select reverse (2 positions away from center), the horizontal springs are stretched/compressed further, and because of how springs work, they push back harder to try to get back center.

 

Generally the big pin can only do one thing at a time, either go up and down, or rotate cw/ccw. The springs are constantly trying to push it up/down back to center, normally when in forward gears, because the spring is less compressed, it can still do this fine, but when in reverse, the springs put more force into trying to make it move in two ways at once, so it binds up.

 

Other manufacturers with 5speed boxes where reverse is where 6th gear would be, does not have this issue because of how the springs are only compressed the same as the rest of the gears. They also seem to have weaker springs too. Being tight and firm has its positives, but also its downsides.

 

At first i had sometimes had a lot of trouble getting out of reverse, i realised i was pulling it back toward center also, putting even more force into making the pin do two things at once. Usually pushing it back to reverse, giving it a wiggle then pulling it out sorted that and it came out easy. I changed my habbit to following the pattern i used to put it in reverse, as well as pushing the gear stick down to avoid wear on the plastic tab, and have since not had any issues taking it out of reverse. Only on occasion do i have trouble putting it in reverse. Quickly putting it in 1st or tickling the clutch for a moment allows it to go in every time.

 

If there's still issues outside of that, then it's a dealership problem. Something's getting stuck where it shouldn't be. I think it's most likely just the inherent design flaws associated with having reverse so far off-center.

If I understood correctly, when you stated "first one", you meant the 8 sec video and "as for the second" you meant 12 sec video in your comment?

10 minutes ago, Hassan_skoda said:

If I understood correctly, when you stated "first one", you meant the 8 sec video and "as for the second" you meant 12 sec video in your comment?

First one being where you were trying to put it in gear. Second being where you were trying to take it out of gear.

1 minute ago, FabiaGonzales said:

First one being where you were trying to put it in gear. Second being where you were trying to take it out of gear.

Skoda replaced the gearbox after the "second" in which I could not take out from reverse gear and told me that the problem was inside the gearbox and needed a replacement. So, they replaced the gearbox.

The "first" one where I am trying to put it in reverse gear the current situation after i got the gearbox replacement. So, do you think it is a big problem and I shall take it back to the dealer to fix it or let it be?

Also were they right in the diagnosis of replacing the gearbox when I could not get the get out of reverse? 

19 hours ago, Hassan_skoda said:

Skoda replaced the gearbox after the "second" in which I could not take out from reverse gear and told me that the problem was inside the gearbox and needed a replacement. So, they replaced the gearbox.

The "first" one where I am trying to put it in reverse gear the current situation after i got the gearbox replacement. So, do you think it is a big problem and I shall take it back to the dealer to fix it or let it be?

Also were they right in the diagnosis of replacing the gearbox when I could not get the get out of reverse? 

 

I think replacing the gearbox from not being able to get out of gear was perhaps a little excessive, but if it was under warranty then it might as well, it's of no loss to the dealer, or you, as you've now got a brand new gearbox!

It's also possible being unable to get out of gear was a result of the selector binding up inside the gearbox, in which case, that's a case of "may as well replace the box" as it'd be easier and faster than taking the box out, rebuilding it, putting it back in and potentially still having the same problem.

 

As for being unable to put it in gear, that's one of the inherent downsides of dog engaged gears (the other being the not so favourable crunch). Another gearbox will do the exact same thing. If the input shaft is not spinning, then there's a chance it won't engage.

Another reason to let the clutch out in neutral and let it idle for a moment before setting off is also to get the oil moving around the gearbox, they're lubricated by splash, the spinning gears flick and splash the oil everywhere inside the box.

If it's been sat for some time, moreso with extended periods, there may even be metal-metal contact (especially with aging boxes where the oil is well used), there shouldn't be, as the oil is designed to maintain a thin film to prevent it.

Pulling away immediately without idling in neutral puts load onto un-lubricated gears. If there is any metal-metal contact, it's very unhealthy for it. A moment of metal-metal when it's completely unloaded in neutral won't make any appreciable difference to the condition.

 

In short, nothing wrong with the new box, it's just how dog-engagement gears work, and let the car idle for a few seconds while in neutral with the clutch let out so the input shaft is spinning, it's good for both the engine and gearbox to get the oil flowing before putting any load on them. Cold starts are already hard on them, don't make it even harder by immediately pulling away after starting up.

I know others will probably object and say it's fine to pull away as it's unlikely to cause any immediate problems, but i prefer to "err on the side of caution", it only takes 15 seconds to ensure that everything is fully lubricated before putting load on it.

It'll improve the lifespan of engine and box, a good idea if you're wanting to keep the car for some time. If it's a lease car and you're handing it back in a couple years, then whatever floats your boat i guess, the gearbox won't fail while you still own it, nor will the engine, but for the next unfortunate owner...

This is normal... and annoying. Mine is the exact same but not all the time, I had an Audi A3 2014 with a 6 speed box and it did the exact same from brand new which was even more annoying considering the badge lol

On 13/05/2020 at 13:23, JAMMYZ said:

This is normal... and annoying. Mine is the exact same but not all the time, I had an Audi A3 2014 with a 6 speed box and it did the exact same from brand new which was even more annoying considering the badge lol

How often does it happen?